2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

DNC convention is 19-22 August. Wonder what the vibe will be if Biden doesn't step down.
 
It's over for Biden. He can't mobilize the left and now even swing voters will just stay home. Low turnouts favor the republicans and i can't see many average Americans being motivated to go vote.
 
B. Munich said:
How the hell can get Trump away with all the lies?
He should have been hit by an electric taser at every lie he spouted.

Unfortunately, Biden isn't fit enough for another 4 years. I dread the upcoming 4 years with an complete idiot in charge of America.
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Always has.

This time, it was even easier because people were more interested in seeing if Biden was fit for purpose than spotting or keeping up with Trump lies.
 
nimic said:
Dems can and do just run the endless clips of Trump rambling or saying something insane, though.
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Will that mobilise people that think Biden is in the grip of dementia? I doubt it personally. I don't envy their choice, makes ours look quite positive really, which is saying something.
 
That_Bloke said:
This one will.
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Yeah, I agree. The narrative is disastrous for Biden. If his State of the Union speech a couple of months back gave the people the impression that there is still some energy left in him, this debate completely swung it in the other direction. Theoretically Biden has a couple of opportunities to alter the narrative again. There is the nomination acceptance speech at the convention, and possibly more debates. But why would anyone expect him to suddenly be full of pep for those? I fear what we saw yesterday is now his default setting. It's such an easy narrative to run with for the opposition.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, I agree. The narrative is disastrous for Biden. If his State of the Union speech a couple of months back gave the people the impression that there is still some energy left in him, this debate completely swung it in the other direction. Theoretically Biden has a couple of opportunities to alter the narrative again. There is the nomination acceptance speech at the convention, and possibly more debates. But why would anyone expect him to suddenly be full of pep for those? I fear what we saw yesterday is now his default setting. It's such an easy narrative to run with for the opposition.
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If Biden stays on the ticket, he should simply not debate any more, and hope a debate from June fades from the memory of most people.
 
I think the main thing too take from the debate

Is that, this debate was probably the worst political debate in US History
 
As a non-American, it does seem really late to consider switching from Biden to another candidate now.

Is there any precedent in US politics for the major parties changing candidates so late into the campaign and succeeding?
 
Since golfing is important enough to talk about in a presidential debate, why not decide the dem nominee over who is better at golf.

Who you figure is the best golfer out of the more known options?
 
Morty_ said:
If Biden stays on the ticket, he should simply not debate any more, and hope a debate from June fades from the memory of most people.
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I don't necessarily disagree, but that would also look incredibly weak, and it's something Trump is probably already salivating at the thought of. "I destroyed Sleepy Joe in our last debate. Now he's running scared. Bigly".
 
Morty_ said:
If Biden stays on the ticket, he should simply not debate any more, and hope a debate from June fades from the memory of most people.
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Hell will freeze over before that happens.

If Biden doesn't debate again, the GOP will use it against him to hammer home that he's afraid and physically unfit to be POTUS. If he does and the meds don't work (again), he'll bury himself and definitely hand over the elections.

Trump's pathological lies don't matter anymore, the narrative has decisively shifted against Biden. It's all about the latter's health and capacity to lead the US for the next four years (hint: he can't).

He and the Dems fecked themselves with a telephone pole and I'm curious to see how they're going to get out of this.
 
What is the dem excuse for this mess? I hold them to a higher standard than republicans. You can’t blame the other side for the state of your own candidate.
 
Mike Smalling said:
Yeah, I agree. The narrative is disastrous for Biden. If his State of the Union speech a couple of months back gave the people the impression that there is still some energy left in him, this debate completely swung it in the other direction. Theoretically Biden has a couple of opportunities to alter the narrative again. There is the nomination acceptance speech at the convention, and possibly more debates. But why would anyone expect him to suddenly be full of pep for those? I fear what we saw yesterday is now his default setting. It's such an easy narrative to run with for the opposition.
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Yeah, that's exactly the problem.

Biden's proved now that he's a time ticking bomb and any debate could lead to another disaster. And should he win the elections, it will drive every single MAGA conspiracy theory about the Deep State into overdrive which could possibly lead to something even worse than 1/6.
 
Still mindboggling that of the hundreds of millions in USA this is the two they get to choose from.
 
Had to turn that off, struggle watch Trump at the best of times but what they are doing with Biden is just deeply irresponsible. His issues are clear to see and the fact they seem to keep him performing purely with medication is morally wrong.

See a lot of people asking why they don't focus on the Trump being a felon issue, it is very unsteady ground in my opinion. Aside from there being many who question the proceedings due to a perceived impartiality, if they do focus heavily on this they open themselves up big time to the Hunter issues, for which there is a risk that the "smoke" his other shenanigans involve Joe will come up and be a problem. Dems need no convincing on the felony, Reps don't care and the undecided are probably split. The risk is Hunters issues and the link to Joe, unproven or not, can create as much noise as the Trump felony (rightly or wrongly, I'm just speculating here). The Dems will want to avoid this since the Trump felony is known and I don't think they gain anything by pushing on it.

With regards to Newsome, again I would imagine all Dems would support him (including the left), but is he going to sway the undecided. Do the undecided, and America in general, want "California" for the whole country? I think California is a potential negative for him on a national stage.

Clinton - just no, she is toxic. She has also spent a lot of time denying/disputing the 2016 result and she is an easy target to be dubbed an election denier herself, again not amongst the Dems, but the undecided.

I genuinely think this is a golden opportunity for the Dems, Joe can pull out for health reasons, tearful speech, portray him as a retiring American hero then ride the wave of goodwill with a new candidate who will honour his legacy, consult him on a handover etc etc. If it is managed properly I think the sympathy will offset a lot of the mockery/negativity from the Republicans. They absolutely have to have a new candidate in my opinion.
 
Can’t say I didn’t call this exact thing a year ago. Biden is too old and incoherent to run. People were criticized and pilloried for questioning the competency of POTUS, and accused of spreading disinformation. The Democratic Party operatives in cahoots with the media have been gaslighting the American people, so fck them. They have had complete access to Biden, but they still outright lied.

What happens next? DNC have 40 days to replace Biden which will be really difficult. Because Biden is the incumbent, they’d have to convince him to step down, which they have already started to do. Then they have to get rid of Kamala, because if she doesn’t bow out she will get pummeled by Trump in November.

Then they have to replace the entire ticket with Newsome, Whitmer, Sherrod or big Mike. This is going to be really tricky because you need someone with name recognition who will rally the base and not lose the swing states.
 
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Phil Jones Face said:
As a non-American, it does seem really late to consider switching from Biden to another candidate now.

Is there any precedent in US politics for the major parties changing candidates so late into the campaign and succeeding?
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Both parties need to be swapped. I’m not voting for either. It’s mental these two are the choices to lead the country for the next 4 years. As expected, the debate was a shitshow. CNN tried putting Trump in shackles to keep it civil but Trump is Trump. Trump is right, the rest of the world looks at the USA like we’re a bunch of stupid people. I wonder why.
 
TheLiverBird said:
I think the main thing too take from the debate

Is that, this debate was probably the worst political debate in US History
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A televised debate between a couple of intellectually compromised pensioners arguing about who's better at golf. It was pathetic. Incidentally, I stumbled across some youtube videos of the 1960 Nixon-Kennedy debates recently and was struck by a couple of things. Firstly, the oft-repeated line that, "Nixon won the debates on the radio while Kennedy won them on the TV" is massively overblown to the point of myth - they were really a draw, with both men performing very well indeed on the TV. Secondly, the standard of political discourse in 2024 is utterly woeful in comparison - Nixon and kennedy were both incredibly erudite and well-informed on the details on a range of topics, the breadth of which would utterly embarrass even the best political debaters today (let alone the appalling standards set by Trump and Biden).

Anyway, Trump can lie all day long and still get elected, but Biden cannot get away with the kind of performance he put in last night. If the Dems don't ditch Biden, they are toast - that much is surely clear to even the most casual observer now.
 
Phil Jones Face said:
As a non-American, it does seem really late to consider switching from Biden to another candidate now.

Is there any precedent in US politics for the major parties changing candidates so late into the campaign and succeeding?
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I too don’t see how it can work. If it was going to happen, it should have happened a year ago, with him announcing he wouldn’t run again.
 
Democrats want people to save democracy by voting for them, and this is what they have to offer? I wouldn't blame any American for staying home on election day.
 
Jill Biden is the person that has to share a lot of blame on this. There was a window around 9 months ago where he should been forced to drop out and they could have eased Harris into the role.
 
How on earth can Biden be allowed to stand? The man is clearly unwell with severe cognitive issues. It would be both cruel and senseless to let him stand.

How would he manage another 4 years? It is complete lunacy to suggest this should be the case. Give it to Newsom and move on.
 
These two are the best the US of A has to offer.
One who can't remember what day of the week it is and the other rambling about sharks and batteries not long back.
 
Biden's legacy is very likely going to be supporting a genocide while getting humiliated by Netanyahu, and then handing the rains back to Trump, because he was too selfish and stupid to step down.
 
gfactor86 said:
Absolutely not worth it. No way he stands.
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The DNC changing the rules to bring in Newsom would be politically disastrous and would look even worse than just plodding on with Joe. Even if they got him in, and somehow survived the damage of all of that, he probably wouldn't even be a popular candidate in swing states, hasn't had a campaign, etc. He'd probably do worse than Biden if anything. Kamala is a non starter. I bet he will be the nominee, I've already got my money on it anyway!
 
Fergies Gum said:
Jill Biden is the person that has to share a lot of blame on this. There was a window around 9 months ago where he should been forced to drop out and they could have eased Harris into the role.
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Jill Biden is a disgrace
 
Precaution said:
So what happens when prices don't come down during a Trump 2nd term? Bloody Soros at it again
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Bingo. It’s always a bullshit answer for everything.

Like how right now the memes being posted ignore the context of being mid-pandemic shutdown. No no no, it’s clearly because Trump is the messiah.
 
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