2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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The tear in the Democratic party started in 2016 is now a permanent schism I feel.
There is total distrust of the party by the progressives.
Throwing crumbs is not going to unite the party.
Only real change can achieve that.
A corporate candidate will dampen enthusiasm and turnout.
The House and Senate may be lost.

Lets hope Bernie or Warren win the nomination.
 
Red Dreams said:
Slavery ended with a Civil war. it was not gradual. many died to make that change.

Segregation/ Voting Rights Act came with a lot of pain too.
JFK supported MLK and others.

It starts from the top.
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Starts from the top? So Lincoln alone is responsible for ending slavery? All those abolitionists like Frederick Douglass and William Lloyd Garrison don't figure into the equation as importantly, huh?

And LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (JFK didn't do squat for civil rights, btw) was what we should most focus on when it comes to advances in race relations in the US, and not the activities of Booker T. Washington, W. E. B. DuBois, Rosa Parks, MLK and countless others, such as those less well-known figures who were assaulted with firehouses and attack dogs in the South as they protested segregation?

By your logic, Woodrow Wilson, a virulent racist and misogynist who only signed the 19th Amendment because of immense public pressure, deserves more credit for women's suffrage than Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Alice Paul.

No, these changes didn't start at the top. Not by a long shot. They started with grassroots movements that only gradually became huge. And by gradually I mean almost centuries each.
 
Chekhov said:
JFK didn't do squat for civil rights, btw
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Because he was shot.

He fumbled around with the issue until 1963 as he dealt with international crisis and the political reality of needing southern democrat votes, but after the violence in Birmingham in early 1963, he moved to pass civil rights legislation. What LBJ accomplished in 1964 is basically what JFK started before he was killed.
 
Chekhov said:
Starts from the top? So Lincoln alone is responsible for ending slavery? All those abolitionists like Frederick Douglass and William Lloyd Garrison don't figure into the equation as importantly, huh?

And LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (JFK didn't do squat for civil rights, btw) was what we should most focus on when it comes to advances in race relations in the US, and not the activities of Booker T. Washington, W. E. B. DuBois, Rosa Parks, MLK and countless others, such as those less well-known figures who were assaulted with firehouses and attack dogs in the South as they protested segregation?

By your logic, Woodrow Wilson, a virulent racist and misogynist who only signed the 19th Amendment because of immense public pressure, deserves more credit for women's suffrage than Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Alice Paul.

No, these changes didn't start at the top. Not by a long shot. They started with grassroots movements that only gradually became huge. And by gradually I mean almost centuries each.
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Of course there were movements for anything worthy as you have pointed out.
But Lincoln had to fight a war to save the union.

A grieving nation through LBJ moved for legislation to be passed.
 
Carolina Red said:
Because he was shot.

He fumbled around with the issue until 1963 as he dealt with international crisis and the political reality of needing southern democrat votes, but after the violence in Birmingham in early 1963, he moved to pass civil rights legislation. What LBJ accomplished in 1964 is basically what JFK started before he was killed.
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I didn't mean to imply he was callous toward blacks and other minorities; he wasn't. Only that he never delivered on the promises he had made to these communities during the 1960 election season.

And, yes, that was due to the shortness of his stint in the White House, but also because he lacked LBJ's experience and political savvy--and it took every bit of that genius to get the Civil Rights Act passed through Congress.

In the end, you're giving JFK way too much credit to say LBJ just finished what his predecessor started. Frankly, that was all LBJ. JFK never even got out of the gate on this issue.
 
Sweet Square said:
10% over 10 years is not a lot.
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What are the other plans? Here’s what I’ve found so far (from February)...
SJM-L-HOUSING2020-0223-90-011.jpg


And what is possible vs what is desirable?
 
Carolina Red said:
What are the other plans?
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The other stuff seems ok-ish.

Carolina Red said:
And what is possible vs what is desirable?
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If Warren thinks the political possibles of the next decade(A decade which scientists have given us to try and tackle climate change) are bringing rent down by 10% then I suggest she doesn't quite grasp the current crisis we are in.
 
Sweet Square said:
The other stuff seems ok-ish.


If Warren thinks the political possibles of the next decade(A decade which scientists have given us to try and tackle climate change) are bringing rent down by 10% then I suggest she doesn't quite grasp the current crisis we are in.
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Here’s a newer article from June 21...

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/21/7341...-affordable-housing-plans-amid-surging-prices
Castro would provide housing vouchers to all families who need help. Right now, only 1 in 4 families eligible for housing assistance gets it. He would also increase government spending on new affordable housing by tens of billions of dollars a year and provide a refundable tax credit to the millions of low- and moderate-income renters who have to spend more than 30% of their incomes on housing.

Among the other proposals:

  • Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren calls for a $500 billion federal investment over the next 10 years in new affordable housing. She says her plan would create 3 million new units and lower rents by 10%. Warren would also give grants to first-time homebuyers who live in areas where black families were once excluded from getting home loans. "Everybody who lives or lived in a formerly red-lined district can get some housing assistance now to be able to buy a home," Warren told attendees at the She the People Presidential Forum in Houston this spring.
  • New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker would provide financial incentives to encourage local governments to get rid of zoning laws that limit the construction of affordable housing. He would also provide a renters' tax credit, legal assistance for tenants facing eviction and protect against housing discrimination, something he's made part of his personal appeal. "When I was a baby, my parents tried to move us into a neighborhood with great public schools, but realtors wouldn't sell us a home because of the color of our skin," Booker recounts in an online campaign video.
  • Sen. Kamala Harris has also introduced a plan for a renters' tax credit of up to $6,000 for families making $100,000 or less.
  • New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand has signed on to both the Harris and Warren plans, which have been introduced as legislation.
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And here is what Bernie wrote in an article on April 29th. Note that he doesn’t give a numerical estimate of how much this plan will lower costs...
How do we address the affordable housing crisis? Here are several ideas.

First, we must significantly and permanently expand the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund to build housing that lower-income people can afford. Currently, we are spending $800 million a year on this program. This is far too little. By greatly expanding the trust fund, not only would this help build the affordable housing units we need, but it would create good-paying jobs to do it.

Second, we must raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. According to the National Low Income Housing Coalition, a renter would need to earn $22.10 an hour to comfortably afford a modest, two-bedroom apartment in the U.S. under the current housing market. Raising the minimum wage is an additional way we can close the wage-rent gap.

Third, we must adequately fund grants for cities and towns that wish to create community land trust housing. When I was mayor of Burlington, Vt., we were the first municipality in the country to implement this idea, something which is now being utilized successfully throughout the country. Land trust housing enables people to enjoy the advantages of homeownership while keeping housing perpetually affordable.

Fourth, we must make sure that communities can utilize tools, including rent control, that maintain rent stability. Landlords should not be able to simply raise rents to any level they want, any time they want. We must also make certain that communities have the option to mandate that developers include affordable housing in new developments. Creating fancy new housing may be fine, but it must include a decent percentage of affordable housing as well.

Fifth, we must commit to funding and repairing our existing public housing stock. There is an enormous amount of public housing that has been neglected for years and is in need of massive repair and refurbishment.

Sixth, we must aggressively defend and promote the legal protections of fair housing, and make sure that no one is denied housing based on race, color, national origin, religion, gender or disability. We must fight the modern-day redlining that subjects people of color to arduous loan processes and capricious denials.
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https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2019/apr/29/we-cannot-continue-to-ignore-the-crisis-in-afforda/
 
Red Dreams said:
cheers @Carolina Red
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You’re welcome.

I guess my question is this... with all the other plans currently available to review not putting a numerical value on how far down they would bring rent prices, how do we know that Warren’s rent plan is not good?

Also, I’m assuming I’m not alone is saying that I’d rather her put a realistic number out there than to just say a much higher number and it be completely unrealistic.
 
Carolina Red said:
Here’s a newer article from June 21...

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/21/7341...-affordable-housing-plans-amid-surging-prices

And here is what Bernie wrote in an article on April 29th. Note that he doesn’t give a numerical estimate of how much this plan will lower costs...

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2019/apr/29/we-cannot-continue-to-ignore-the-crisis-in-afforda/
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And this proves what ?
Carolina Red said:
I guess my question is this... with all the other plans currently available to review not putting a numerical value on how far down they would bring rent prices, how do we know that Warren’s rent plan is not good?
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Its no just about comparing Warren to other democratic, regardless lowering rents by 10% is a rubbish policy.

Carolina Red said:
Also, I’m assuming I’m not alone is saying that I’d rather her put a realistic number out there than to just say a much higher number and it be completely unrealistic.
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What happens when a realistic number is also a inadequate one ?
 
Carolina Red said:
You’re welcome.

I guess my question is this... with all the other plans currently available to review not putting a numerical value on how far down they would bring rent prices, how do we know that Warren’s rent plan is not good?

Also, I’m assuming I’m not alone is saying that I’d rather her put a realistic number out there than to just say a much higher number and it be completely unrealistic.
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Its always better to buy than to rent.
But a living wage is key.
I like what Bernie has said.
I believe AOC also addressed this.
 
Sweet Square said:
And this proves what ?
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That we don’t really have a lot of information to go off of when it comes to evaluating the candidates housing policies and that Warren is the only one to give specific information on how it will affect prices.
Sweet Square said:
Its no just about comparing Warren to other democratic, regardless lowering rents by 10% is a rubbish policy.
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Again, with the current lack of information available, it seems that you are calling a policy rubbish with very little to back it up.
Sweet Square said:
What happens when a realistic number is also a inadequate one ?
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Reality...?

An unrealistic number is just as inadequate and on top of that, is disingenuous.
 
Carolina Red said:
That we don’t really have a lot of information to go off of when it comes to evaluating the candidates housing policies and that Warren is the only one to give specific information on how it will affect prices.
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Again I don't actually care about the other candidates housing policies when talking about Warren policy. Warren rent policy could end up being the best out of the candidates but it would still be shit and fail to address the actual issue.


Carolina Red said:
Again, with the current lack of information available, it seems that you are calling a policy rubbish with very little to back it up.
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Warren put forward her policy which has in it the plan of lower rent by 10% of 10 years which clearly isn't good enough, which even you admit it isn't good enough.
Carolina Red said:
And what is possible vs what is desirable?
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Carolina Red said:
An unrealistic number is just as inadequate and on top of that, is disingenuous.
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Politics isn't set in stone, it can be changed. America is closer to healthcare because a old jewish socialist kept shouting that ''healthcare is a human right''. Where would universal healthcare be today if for only realistic options ?
 
Sweet Square said:
Again I don't actually care about the other candidates housing policies when talking about Warren policy. Warren rent policy could end up being the best out of the candidates but it would still be shit and fail to address the actual issue.
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That’s fair enough, I guess.

I personally question if any of the candidates policies on this could adequately address the issue.

There’s only so many fronts you can fight on simultaneously.
Sweet Square said:
Warren put forward her policy which has in it the plan of lower rent by 10% of 10 years which clearly isn't good enough, which even you admit isn't good enough.
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I question it like I do the others plans. I do like though that she actually gives an estimate rather than leaving me to wonder what it might do.
Sweet Square said:
Politics isn't set in stone, it can be changed. America is closer to healthcare because a old jewish socialist kept shouting that ''healthcare is a human right''. Where would universal healthcare be today if for only realistic options.
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That’s assuming universal healthcare wasn’t a realistic option before. I’d contend it has been for quite some time, it’s just not had political backing.

Now something like “I’ll cut housing prices and rents by 35%” (just as an example) is something that I would question until I felt the candidate had adequately explained how it could be done.
 
Chekhov said:
And LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (JFK didn't do squat for civil rights, btw) was what we should most focus on when it comes to advances in race relations in the US
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Really? This is JFK’s speech addressing the nation.



MLK response:

Martin Luther King Jr. watched the address with Walter E. Fauntroy in Atlanta. When it was over, he jumped up and declared, "Walter, can you believe that white man not only stepped up to the plate, he hit it over the fence!" He then sent a telegram to the White House: "I have just listened to your speech to the nation. It was one of the most eloquent[,] profound, and unequivocal pleas for justice and freedom of all men ever made by any President. You spoke passionately for moral issues involved in the integration struggle
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On June 11, 1963, President John F. Kennedy addressed the nation on the most pressing domestic issue of the day: the struggle to affirm civil rights for all Americans. His administration had sent National Guard troops to accompany the first black students admitted to the University of Mississippi and University of Alabama. In the speech, excerpted below, Kennedy announced that he would be sending civil rights legislation to Congress; that legislation was passed after his death and signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson.
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5 months after his speech to the nation he was assassinated. LBJ passed JFK’s civil rights legislation.
 
Carolina Red said:
What are the other plans? Here’s what I’ve found so far (from February)...
SJM-L-HOUSING2020-0223-90-011.jpg


And what is possible vs what is desirable?
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The housing market is incredibly complex but from what I know neither Harris nor Booker's plans look feasible. Warren's plan is the only one that makes sense from an economic and psychology perspective.
 
There’s A Democratic Civil War Brewing Over Decriminalizing Migration
Julián Castro is facing backlash from some other Obama administration alums over his calls to repeal the law Trump has used to split up families at the border.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/demo...tion-julian-castro_n_5d20cdc1e4b01b834737a1de

This is going to split the party even more.

Immigration is going to be a huge issue next year.
 
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