2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Raoul said:
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He's such a fecking lying piece of shit. His prepaid taxes are nothing but provisions or worse, income tax deducted from his own pay cheque, in which case, I and everyone else with a job prepays their taxes, too.
 
sun_tzu said:
Like father like son
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Not at all. Trump Sr. is a highly accomplished con artist with a media apparatus at his disposal. Jr. is an unaccomplished loser in desperate search of his father's approval, when the father only likes the his eldest daughter.
 
With the rehabilitation W got with this current presidency, it’s not inconceivable for Ivanka 2024/28. Followed by Don Jr. 32/36.
 
Raoul said:
Not at all. Trump Sr. is a highly accomplished con artist with a media apparatus at his disposal. Jr. is an unaccomplished loser in desperate search of his father's approval, when the father only likes the his eldest daughter.
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Ivanka and donn jnr joint ticket with trump tv backing them all they way (until baron goes all caligula and takes over )
 
These are the people Democrats abandoned.

West Virginia voter says he will vote Trump because 'he keeps the people to the TV set'

 
InfiniteBoredom said:
With the rehabilitation W got with this current presidency, it’s not inconceivable for Ivanka 2024/28. Followed by Don Jr. 32/36.
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Dubya benefited from Trump's atrociousness and incompetence, which made his presidency seem not so bad. No president will ever be as bad as Donald J. Trump (we hope) so it's unlikely that his administration will ever be rehabilitated.
 
Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær said:
Dubya benefited from Trump's atrociousness and incompetence, which made his presidency seem not so bad.
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Most of the rehabilitation seems to have been done by the time Obama finished his second term. And as bad as Trump is (dire, obviously), Bush Jr is still a war criminal who was instrumental in the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Honestly, it might be millions at this point, with the knock-on effects.
 
‘It can’t get worse than W’
‘It can’t get worse than Sarah Palin’

Honestly I don’t think there’s any depth the Republican Party won’t plunge to, it will take a bit of time but unless USA’s political system massively changes in the next decade, it’s inevitable that a right wing populist will rise up and get elected again, and Ivanka out of the Trump spawns is just about polished enough to be attractive to some of the librulz crowd, the same lot who screamed bloody murder while W were in office but are fawning over him now.
 
nimic said:
Most of the rehabilitation seems to have been done by the time Obama finished his second term. And as bad as Trump is (dire, obviously), Bush Jr is still a war criminal who was instrumental in the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Honestly, it might be millions at this point, with the knock-on effects.
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Say what you will about what happened during Obama but Trump is the one responsible for us mostly forgetting about the war criminal stuff. Even after Obama, most would have argued Dubya as one of the worst presidents. Now the conversation doesn't even approach him.
 
nimic said:
Most of the rehabilitation seems to have been done by the time Obama finished his second term. And as bad as Trump is (dire, obviously), Bush Jr is still a war criminal who was instrumental in the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Honestly, it might be millions at this point, with the knock-on effects.
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Hard to tell really, I can’t find any regular polling on it after his presidency.
 
Still think Bush II was worse than Trump has been.
 
2cents said:
Still think Bush II was worse than Trump has been.
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Globally I tend to agree although we will find out in the coming years how much he’s enabled Russia.
 
sport2793 said:
Makes sense if you live outside the US, definitely not if you live in the US though.
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I think this is about right. W brought far more sufferings to the world at large, while Trump inflicted much bigger damage on American public discourse, institution and racial relation. Economic damage will be about the same.
 
Suv666 said:
Not even debatable. Bush was way worse.
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In a way more so bc his administration laid all the regulatory and legislative groundwork for what has been happening these last few years. Whether its strengthening the power of executive orders (which ironically of course they then bitched about Obama using against them) - to politicizing the courts, empowering the likes of Fox and sheer contempt for holding their own accountable to name a few things - I agree. Without the W admin there wouldn't be a Trump admin. For the American people specifically though - nothing comes close to the destructive force that is Trump.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I think this is about right. W brought far more sufferings to the world at large, while Trump inflicted much bigger damage on American public discourse, institution and racial relation. Economic damage will be about the same.
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To be fair, he literally started his term by suffering the worst attack in history on domestic soil.
 
Apples and fecking oranges.

Trying to compare Bush and Trump is like trying to compare Genghis Khan and Boris Johnson.
 
mu4c_20le said:
To be fair, he literally started his term by suffering the worst attack in history on domestic soil.
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It’s well documented that he wanted to go into Iraq regardless of 9/11. Even if you think Afghanistan was justified, which I think most people would disagree, the attack is still no excuse for starting a war because he wants to resolve his daddy issues.
 
sport2793 said:
Makes sense if you live outside the US, definitely not if you live in the US though.
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Based on conversations here and elsewhere, I would have guessed W is a much bigger point of fixation for foreigners than Americans at this point.

But I don’t think it is a particularly productive comparison. Donny is a whole different animal.
 
Genghis was also more tolerant of religion and freedom of expression. But he killed quite a few folk. It's quite funny; some months ago I was watching an undergrad History & International Relations class try to argue whether Genghis or Hitler was worse. Very few seemed to feel they might not be analogous.
 
owlo said:
Genghis was also more tolerant of religion and freedom of expression. But he killed quite a few folk. It's quite funny; some months ago I was watching an undergrad History & International Relations class try to argue whether Genghis or Hitler was worse. Very few seemed to feel they might not be analogous.
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Responsible for up to 40m deaths and up to 10% of the global population at the time.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
It’s well documented that he wanted to go into Iraq regardless of 9/11. Even if you think Afghanistan was justified, which I think most people would disagree, the attack is still no excuse for starting a war because he wants to resolve his daddy issues.
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Actually Afghanistan was justified only because it was basically an untouched safe haven for robustly training terrorists. The way they went about solving that issue though was a total disaster. The real crime was the Iraq war, which had literally zero valid justification. Rumsfeld, Cheney and co. had "unfinished business" there. I also believe that Cheney enriched himself via his links to Haliburton by waging war. Those folks really are war criminals for the suffering they caused and if they were in charge of any other country they would be on trial in the Hague.
 
2cents said:
Still think Bush II was worse than Trump has been.
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Worse for who? Humanity?

Raoul said:
Responsible for up to 40m deaths and up to 10% of the global population at the time.
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Indeed, and many of those deaths in an absolutely horrific manner if you opposed or even disrespected him. But trying to compare him to somebody in the 20th-21st century is just nuts.
 
Raoul said:
Responsible for up to 40m deaths and up to 10% of the global population at the time.
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To be fair, they killed everyone regardless of religion in their infamous massacres, that's a type of non-discrimination, right?
 
sport2793 said:
To be fair, they killed everyone regardless of religion in their infamous massacres, that's a type of non-discrimination, right?
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If you kissed the ring, Genghis was pretty liberal. Submit peacefully to the horde or die. Come into the family, and you got a fair whack.

sport2793 said:
Actually Afghanistan was justified only because it was basically an untouched safe haven for robustly training terrorists. The way they went about solving that issue though was a total disaster. The real crime was the Iraq war, which had literally zero valid justification. Rumsfeld, Cheney and co. had "unfinished business" there. I also believe that Cheney enriched himself via his links to Haliburton by waging war. Those folks really are war criminals for the suffering they caused and if they were in charge of any other country they would be on trial in the Hague.
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Afghanistan was happening whether Bush wanted it or not. Iraq was a huge clusterfeck with the way they went after the military and political class (against US military advice it must be said). Had they managed to transition, it was justified for me. (Just as an invasion of north korea would be)
 
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