2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Still a lot of hard feelings after the primaries it seems, which is only compounded now that the likes of Sanders and AOC are getting behind Biden.
Because they want us all to smell their Twitter farts. If Biden wins they will disappear in to their own little world until the next presidential election and then they will come out with the usual hypocrisy.
I'm as pissed off as most about Biden being the nominee but if any functioning adult thinks he would be a worse choice than a 2nd term for trump they need their fecking heads examined.
 
I don't like Biden and don't like Harris but the people moaning really don't have a leg. What did they expect when Bernie lost? "Contempt for the base", seems the base wants people like Biden and Harris.
 
I don't like Biden and don't like Harris but the people moaning really don't have a leg. What did they expect when Bernie lost? "Contempt for the base", seems the base wants people like Biden and Harris.

It's hardly a surprise, the Democratic party is chock full of people who loudly claim to be progressives but actually have political beliefs akin to Tories.
 
I don't like Biden and don't like Harris but the people moaning really don't have a leg. What did they expect when Bernie lost? "Contempt for the base", seems the base wants people like Biden and Harris.
I cant help but think the left are most worried that a Bernie win makes Kamala 2024 (and potentially 2028) seem very likely rather than their hopes of AOC somehow winning the nomination - I think Harris will actually suffer more blue on blue attacks from the progressive wing than she will from the republicans
 
I don't like Biden and don't like Harris but the people moaning really don't have a leg. What did they expect when Bernie lost? "Contempt for the base", seems the base wants people like Biden and Harris.
The base as you call it never chose Harris. Harris did pretty bad in the primaries.
 
I cant help but think the left are most worried that a Bernie win makes Kamala 2024 (and potentially 2028) seem very likely rather than their hopes of AOC somehow winning the nomination - I think Harris will actually suffer more blue on blue attacks from the progressive wing than she will from the republicans

No doubt about it. If Biden wins and Harris takes over, it would mean a progressive wouldn't stand a chance of being President until at least 2032, which is a very long time when you think about M4A etc.
 
I cant help but think the left are most worried that a Bernie win makes Kamala 2024 (and potentially 2028) seem very likely rather than their hopes of AOC somehow winning the nomination - I think Harris will actually suffer more blue on blue attacks from the progressive wing than she will from the republicans

AOC is 30. Even if she runs in 2032, she'll be a very young presidential candidate. She has to get more wins under her belt like sponsoring legislation, lobbying through its passage etc before she can even dream of higher office.
 
I cant help but think the left are most worried that a Bernie win makes Kamala 2024 (and potentially 2028) seem very likely rather than their hopes of AOC somehow winning the nomination - I think Harris will actually suffer more blue on blue attacks from the progressive wing than she will from the republicans
Probably
The base as you call it never chose Harris. Harris did pretty bad in the primaries.
What I am saying is they are moaning when they don't have the numbers. Did they really think Biden would fill up his cabinet with people from the left of the party? The party to me, appears to be more in line with Biden than with Sanders or AOC and some simply can't get over that fact.
 
What I am saying is they are moaning when they don't have the numbers. Did they really think Biden would fill up his cabinet with people from the left of the party? The party to me, appears to be more in line with Biden than with Sanders or AOC and some simply can't get over that fact.
Sadly yes some on the left(Most likely both Sanders and AOC)are that stupid.
 
Probably

What I am saying is they are moaning when they don't have the numbers. Did they really think Biden would fill up his cabinet with people from the left of the party? The party to me, appears to be more in line with Biden than with Sanders or AOC and some simply can't get over that fact.

It was never about that. More about influence on shaping policy from the left.
 
I don't know of any who thought he would "fill up" his cabinet with leftists.
There was people hopeful with AOC being on some pointless committee board, Bernie getting something in talks with the Biden team and the idea of Warren possible as VP. The fact Sanders is constantly talking shite about the progressive potential of a Biden presidency clearly showed some one believed in Biden.
 
It was never about that. More about influence on shaping policy from the left.
The only way to ensure influence is to win or to gather enough numbers to stop legislation. The left side of the democratic party have pretty insignificant numbers to move anything and that is their problem.
The only thing this shows is that Bernie is an experienced politician who really really wants Trump out of office. It's just like how he talked up Clinton in 2016.
My thoughts as well.
 
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The only thing this shows is that Bernie is an experienced politician who really really wants Trump out of office. It's just like how he talked up Clinton in 2016.
There's ways to do this without sounding like a complete moron



It's depressing to see tbh.
 
Oh and by the way can we not hear from the Clintons until they've answered questions about Epstein.
 
AOC is 30. Even if she runs in 2032, she'll be a very young presidential candidate. She has to get more wins under her belt like sponsoring legislation, lobbying through its passage etc before she can even dream of higher office.

Naw. All she has to do is keep doing what she's doing. Calling out all the BS from corporate execs, the rich, and the right wing and publishing it for all to see.
 
Why are the Clinton's any part of the DNC speech anyway. Even Tories knew when to ditch Thatcher.
 
Why are the Clinton's any part of the DNC speech anyway. Even Tories knew when to ditch Thatcher.

Its fairly normal for POTUS or soon to be ex-POTUS types to give convention speeches. Reagan did it for Bush in 88, Clinton for Obama in 12, and Obama for Hillary in 16.
 
There was people hopeful with AOC being on some pointless committee board, Bernie getting something in talks with the Biden team and the idea of Warren possible as VP. The fact Sanders is constantly talking shite about the progressive potential of a Biden presidency clearly showed some one believed in Biden.

The Warren VP people (Mehdi Hasan, Robert Reich) are now saying Senate Majority Leader :lol:
I wonder if they can be bargained down to Massachusetts senator. The Bernie-will-pull-him-left people seem to have shut up for a while, they're also little piggies who would be delighted with a hair sniff from Biden.
 
Looks like the party needs to urgently move right to prevent further bleeding of sensible blue centrists

 
It's hardly a surprise, the Democratic party is chock full of people who loudly claim to be progressives but actually have political beliefs akin to Tories.
The DNC average platform would be called 'progressive conservative' if it ran anywhere in Canada. (Yep, that's thing here: economically conservative and somewhere between not fussed and progressive on social issues.)
 
Wow,
Looks like the party needs to urgently move right to prevent further bleeding of sensible blue centrists


I'm not sure I understand such posts. Should we care what this guy thinks? Is he indicative of something? Is it just because he shares your views, or you share his?

I absolutely welcome people's opinions on here, or thought pieces, or journalism, but I struggle with people posting random Tweets from inconsequential people.

Harris is a safe choice, a popular senator, a great orator, has an illustrious career despite being quite young and is a minority female.

As a senator, her voting record is all the way left on govtrack.us' measure. Only 3 senators are beyond her, yes including Sanders. She is supported by such awful organisations as Human Rights Campaign, League of Conservation Voters, Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.

I swear the only candidate people would be happy with is one that had emerged from a cave last week, or else they'd find something to attack them over.
 
Wow,

I'm not sure I understand such posts. Should we care what this guy thinks? Is he indicative of something? Is it just because he shares your views, or you share his?

I absolutely welcome people's opinions on here, or thought pieces, or journalism, but I struggle with people posting random Tweets from inconsequential people.

Harris is a safe choice, a popular senator, a great orator, has an illustrious career despite being quite young and is a minority female.

As a senator, her voting record is all the way left on govtrack.us' measure. Only 3 senators are beyond her, yes including Sanders. She is supported by such awful organisations as Human Rights Campaign, League of Conservation Voters, Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.

I swear the only candidate people would be happy with is one that had emerged from a cave last week, or else they'd find something to attack them over.

1. It got 10k likes.
2. I think it's funny that there's solid criticism from the left of her record as prosecutor, and that still doesn't satisfy these self-proclaimed centrists.
3. The party's strategy as embodied by Biden is to court the old white vote. So far it is a winning strategy, though it is high-risk. So a further move to the right is in line with their existing strategy.
4. There are deep deficiencies to measures like that (often being left/right is definded as voting with the Dem/GOP, it's a party loyalty indicator more than idelogical, votes have different weights at different times, supporting M4A in 2018 is meaningless, dropping it as a candidate is meaningful, it doesn't line up with what people with actual power and investment in politics think). There are also criticisms of organisations like the ones you mentioned (you can look at their primary endorsements over multiple cycles, like HRC/PP suporting conservtives against gay candidates). But I'm not going to convince anybody about this and frankly I don't care, and finally my post wasn't about Kamala, it was about the centrists and the party courting them.
 
I swear the only candidate people would be happy with is one that had emerged from a cave last week, or else they'd find something to attack them over.

This is a somewhat disingenuous comment, considering many people on this forum (and the left in general) have been fairly clear in their criticism of Harris in particular for many months by now. To pretend that this is just people "finding something to attack them over" is a bit silly. The reaction should not come as a surprise.
 
Wow,

I'm not sure I understand such posts. Should we care what this guy thinks? Is he indicative of something? Is it just because he shares your views, or you share his?

I absolutely welcome people's opinions on here, or thought pieces, or journalism, but I struggle with people posting random Tweets from inconsequential people.

Harris is a safe choice, a popular senator, a great orator, has an illustrious career despite being quite young and is a minority female.

As a senator, her voting record is all the way left on govtrack.us' measure. Only 3 senators are beyond her, yes including Sanders. She is supported by such awful organisations as Human Rights Campaign, League of Conservation Voters, Planned Parenthood and the ACLU.

I swear the only candidate people would be happy with is one that had emerged from a cave last week, or else they'd find something to attack them over.

I think this is my basic problem with Biden and now his choice of VP. They have a long, illustrious career of fecking the American people. People will vote against Trump but I really cant see a single reason why anyone would be in the slightest bit enthusiastic about a Biden and Harris presidency.
The story of politics of the last 30 years has been one of outrageous greed, corruption and failure. Those heavily involved in it should be viewed with deep suspicion imo and in Harris' case you dont have to look far to find reasons not to like her. Shes not very likable.
 
The Warren VP people (Mehdi Hasan, Robert Reich) are now saying Senate Majority Leader :lol:
I wonder if they can be bargained down to Massachusetts senator. The Bernie-will-pull-him-left people seem to have shut up for a while, they're also little piggies who would be delighted with a hair sniff from Biden.


It all goes back to Adam Curtis point about "Do you really want change ?"

Leaders realize the damange Trump can cause, which most idealistic followers don't.
The air is cold, so cold it's possible to see ones breath and the room is dark, with a single light bulb hanging from the ceiling acting as the only light source. Sanders eyes begin to widen, unable to move his legs he realizes the tall shadowy figure facing him.

Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. slowly removes a blue velvet napkin to unveil a freshly made cream pie. Biden without saying a single word extends his left arm as he grips the pie, Sanders although slightly dazed understands the command and also extends his left arm. Both men meet each other and a Olympic passing of pie is complete.

Sanders regretfully looks down at his left hand, the aluminum tray begins to irritate his palm and then it finally happens.............Sanders slams the pie directly into his face. A single tear falls down from his eye.

Suddenly the sound of a key turning, pierces the air. The many locks on the chamber door begin to open, a bright light tears throughout the room. Sanders quickly removes the last remaining pieces of pie around his eyes in hopes of seeing a saviour. The smoke clears, the room becomes dark again, the door slams shut and standing in front of him is Harris holding a slightly larger pie. Sanders screams "The most progressive president since F.D.R.! "
 
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The DNC average platform would be called 'progressive conservative' if it ran anywhere in Canada. (Yep, that's thing here: economically conservative and somewhere between not fussed and progressive on social issues.)
I think this is exactly what's I've been hammering on as well before in here and that is the simple notion that you can't just cite graphs showing the country is moving further left and then conclude that means we re becoming a progressive heaven.

Given this country's many many years of being center right the move to the left is in actuality a move to the center. Progressives have indeed gained ground and that is nothing to sneeze at - but as a whole we are still nowhere near an actual left leaning society when compared to a lot of other nations (tho a lot of them have tilted more to the right in event years).
 


tenor.gif

:lol:
 
This is a somewhat disingenuous comment, considering many people on this forum (and the left in general) have been fairly clear in their criticism of Harris in particular for many months by now. To pretend that this is just people "finding something to attack them over" is a bit silly. The reaction should not come as a surprise.
I guess that's fair on Harris, but we've also seen people question Rice, make fun of Pete, and postulate on how idiotic making Warren [insert position here] will be.

I need to research more into Harris, but it seems the main criticisms are her flip-flop on healthcare during the primaries, and that she her tone as a senator doesn't match her actions as a prosecutor. I find the second one completely non-sensical, they are two different jobs, with different goals and actions. Plus I have to believe people can learn and evolve.

On M4A I agree her flip-flop flopped, and it's one of the reasons she went down so quickly in the polls. She did initially support Sanders' proposal a few years back, and I guess we'll have to now see.

She wasn't my first, or second choice, but I honestly don't think she's some strange devil like she's being portrayed either. She's eminently qualified, smart and capable.
 
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