NEW AD: Republican Vets Against Trump
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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Would be some awesome for Bernie to run as a third-party candidate, win somewhere between 4 and 8%, and ensure another Trump presidency, which among other things, will lock the Supreme Court for many decades (with at least 6 judges, probably 7). That would totally help the progressives after all, they will have even more to moan in Twitter for the next four years.
Which is all that matters for them.
If he loses maybe we can finally find out what dirt Trump has on him. The (barely) sentient Cheeto is vindictive enough to leak it if LG loses.
He would have gotten much more than that. Way more. Specially with the two other candidates he would be competing against.
And anyway, I already explained why it doesn't matter if Trump gets another 4 years. He can't do nothing extreme with the support of only 1 in 4 Americans. (nothing more xtreme than anything Biden would do)
Institutions mean nothing if they lose credibility of the citizenship. If the supreme court goes against the constitution, that's it for them.
People won't stay home letting the orange craze do his shit. People gonna take the streets (they know they can now) and that's gonna be it. The Military would never take the orange side and be against the people (many would be their own family members). Not in this day and age.
A Trump presidency would ending up speeding the progressive agenda, no doubt in my mind. A Biden presidency, on the contrary, would delayed it even more, masquerading their corruptness with nice words.
He doesn't have any dirt on him, Graham is just a weak, cowardly opportunist.
This clearly isn't the case given that we just had a Trump Presidency and it resulted in progressives losing out to moderates and independents.
Progressiveness lost to a corrupt DNC machinery. Don't kid yourself. A corrupt primary doesn't equate to a national election.
The progressive agenda has never been as strong as now, and if you can't see the changes happening right now in society, then you are too deep into your own agenda.
A thing can be two things, but yeah, it's mostly your thing.
Where are the results to back up what you're saying ?
This was supposed to be Sanders' year after having narrowly missed out in 16, and yet he got trounced by a fairly generic centrist.
Yeah, so this means dick all during a president's second term. He has had to care a least a little about reelection his first term. His second term will make the last 4 years look balmy if he gets reelected.
As to the "nothing more extreme than Biden" part. The last 4 years have shown that the only thing that has kept president in check throughout history has been unwritten rules of decorum. The constitution is worthless in many cases based on the vagueness of presidential checks and balances. I have no love for Biden, I actually loathe most of his policies, but I am absolutely confident that he will be "better" than Trump.
Burning it all to the ground may work elsewhere, but I just don't see how it works here. Americans in general just don't care enough.
I think 4-8% is realistic, if not generous. Voters know that candidates outside the GOP and DNC won't win and will therefore ignore most of them. Most people vote pragmatically, not idealistically.
Not sure why you think Trump can't do much if not enough people vote for him. It's not a popular democracy. If Trump is elected, he has the full mandate, regardless of the number of votes he received. The checks on his presidency would rather be the House and Senate. (Although yes, both of those would probably have a DNC majority if Trump has that little support.) Same with the Supreme Court: you can say that it would lose its credibility, but in the meantime, the US still has the rule of law and the Supreme Court plays a key role in that. You can't just think it away, that's not how law enforcement and the courts work.
As for the rest, it seems that you take for granted that another Trump presidency will upset Americans to the extent that they will take to the streets in a way that will either stop Trump from achieving anything or will get him to resign. I think that's not very realistic - especially if you think the right is just going to let that happen, without any opposition. Also, you're basically saying the US would benefit from risking a civil war. Do you really think its systems are that broken?
Stacking the courts is extreme. The effect would extend far beyond his term and set back progressive agenda for decades.
Ruin green agenda by giving power to oil and gas firms is another move which will have long term effects.
Add in abortion, LGBT rights, guns and nutcases and other short term effects....another Trump term is downright scary.
He was always going to lose that primary. We all followed it live, and we saw how they played him.
But it's not only about him winning, but forcing progressive ideas forward.
If Bernie (or AOC) runs independently, supposedly, he is basically securing a GOP term, right?
What would the democrats would do then? If they are really a different party that the GOP policy wise (until now they are not that different), they would came forward to somehow prevent that secured victory of the GOP. That means they would have to adopt progressive policies (that even 90% democrats voters support), maybe promise him a VP spot and they could have make some grand national big gesture/agreement.
Otherwise it would mean, the DNC prefer a GOP presidency rather than a own but most progressive presidency.
Bernie running within DNC terms, fecked that chance to happen. Because him losing that rigged primary, supposedly means the democrats don't want progressiveness, when in reality, yes they want it.
The democrats are doing all that.
I think this video might actually have some affect on voters.
Biden could probably get elected on the slogan 'Country Above Party' alone. It seems an obvious sentiment, but a majority couldn't possibly vote for Trump if they kept that mantra ringing in their heads on election day.
US party politics makes a mockery of Democracy and should be pointed out at every turn.
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He lost because more people voted for the other guy, which given Biden's current lead, seems to have been validated as the right choice.
Ironically, he's doing just that alongside AOC in their negotiations with Biden.
Explain why then, Biden is not pushing for medicare for all (the most basic of human rights), that is suppported by the 90% of democrats and probably big majority of independents?
Bernie lost leveraging power by running within their terms.
Biden didn't run on M4A. He ran on some version of a restrengthening of Obamacare. Sanders lost, so his only leverage would be to negotiate with Biden to gain some progressive concessions, which he was successful at in the end when Biden released his environmental policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...s-endorsed-the-green-new-deal-in-all-but-name
https://slate.com/business/2020/07/...an-is-the-green-new-deal-minus-the-crazy.html
I am curious, what exactly do you think is happening in the US right now?
Democracy in the US is broken. Yes.
The US would definitely benefit from a big social awakening. The last few months are a prove of that.
it would speed up the process of progressiveness. no doubt. It's happening in my country (Chile), it has happened before in many others during history.
When democracy is kidnapped, it's up to the people who get it back.
Anyway, Biden going to win. We will see by the end of his term who was right.
(I'm willing to bet, any advance in terms of progressivism, it's gonna be because of social pressure, and not because Biden and company decide to push for it)
I think I am missing something here. The democrats are currently NOT stacking the courts. Trump and the R controlled Senate have flooded the federal courts with extremely conservative justices, and have focused on candidates on the younger side as well. These are lifetime appointments. Another four years of this could, as @Edgar Allan Pillow stated, have repercussions for decades. There is also an extremely likely chance that multiple Supreme Court slots open up during the next term. If RBG's slot gets filled by the next Kavanaugh then the progressive agenda is screwed for decades unless one of Thomas and Co. kicks the bucket.
Our political systems and general apathy by the majority of the country does not led to any of the change you seem to think will occur. It would likely take a literal civil war for change to happen with any sort of swiftness.
The democrats are stacking the courts with conservatives? It's happening at circuit/appeals courts now and will hit SC soon.
The democrats pulled US out of Paris agreement?
The democrats are stacking the courts with conservatives? It's happening at circuit/appeals courts now and will hit SC soon.
The democrats pulled US out of Paris agreement?
I was referring to the Oil/Gas claims...
I would say the US are in a great mess, but civil war is something else altogether. Also, it's not like a military junta runs the country top to bottom. Some states are run quite sensibly and the municipal level is another thing again. Even if the state is completely broken on the federal level, would that justify a civil war?
How is US democracy being kidnapped? I would agree that the US democratic system leaves a lot to be desired, but I'd argue that's the case to some extent in every country that does not have any kind of proportional representation. Even if the situation were worse in the US, this is not a progressive issue. I mean, if the US electoral system would become proportional and conservatives would still win elections (for example by running a more centrist candidate), what would you say then?
Didn't Obama also set a lot of green stuff in motion? Like, cleaner cars, greening the economy, etc. Could have been more of course, but it has to start somewhere. But in the meantime, the vast majority of people still need gas in their cars. What's wrong with the US developing that sector of the economy while there is still a huge global demand for it? At least at home, they can set environmental regulations. (Not that that helps much in Canada with the Alberta oil sands, but at least it's possible, unlike if you're importing your oil.)
I meant in terms of protests across the country. Why do you think they’re happening?
Because Biden will win on the back of 65+ voters and suburban women; these are two groups that value security and stability. So you don’t promise to blow up the healthcare system, defund the police, or shutdown the oil industry.
It sucks but that is where we are at as a nation.
OK, so why do they happen, in your view?
Also, please keep in mind that what I said, is that touting the benefits of a civil war goes to far for me. (Which is what I feel @George Owen pretty much does, if you follow the consequences of his comments.) I wasn't speaking about any and all protests.
I understand that. But taking an academic view and separating them doesn't necessarily mean, a civil war in 2021 will be a completely different scenario compared to what's happening right now. If anything, I would say there would be a lot of similarities in terms of the political rhetoric we are seeing right now surrounding the protests.
This accelerationism theory is not conjunctive to reality. If Trump gets a second term he's going to be even more of a manic blowhard tearing up whatever social progress was made before at a faster rate and governmental agencies because it's what his base wants, it's who he thinks are the enemy (the deep state) and he'll never have to face the consequences as history will record him as being granted a mandate twice.
Whoever follows him in 2028 would therefore have a massive job just to get the government functioning, the institutions legitimatised, and re-instate what was previously in place first. Trump with another four years could allow a theocratic rip up of abortion and LGBTQ rights. He could tank the economy with a terrible isolationism and post-covid scepticism of a global alliance. He has already ripped much of the functionality of Obamacare up and he is now finally trying to get it gutted in a pandemic the courts. In such a case in 2028 there would be no single solitary priority because there would be so much to do in little time. Right now for Trump there is probably not enough time for him to get that done before the election but if he loses, Biden gets in, puts back together Obamacare and builds on it with his public option. Therefore allowing more people to get access to healthcare and then that could be strengthened continually over time.
This.
The thing is, the “Biden sucks, let it all burn” crowd are just as fanatical as the MAGA crowd. They both want the same thing and both don’t care who gets hurt in the burning, they just have different visions of what the Phoenix looks like on the other side.
And it will Obama's and Hillary's fault for not connecting with them on a deeper level.
Is he trying to lose?
That whole interview is hilarious.Glad @Red Dreams doesn't seem to be around or he would be getting an aneurysm.
How did we get to a point where this and a racist, rapey, barely sentient Cheeto are our options for president.
Glad @Red Dreams doesn't seem to be around or he would be getting an aneurysm.
Read this thread and you'll get an idea why.
Oh, I know why. It was more of a rhetorical lament.
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