It really shouldn't be that hard to not say or post something racist. Let alone double down on it this hardcore.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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You planning on sitting on the sidelines or voting Green ?
I will vote Green this cycle and The People's Party next time.
If Bernie was the guy, then I would enthusiastically back him. No one wants another 4 years of Trump's antics.
So, how does that usually work? because I don't see any other groups mentioned here based on their race.
It is remarkable you have missed all the discussion of the Latino vote helping in Texas and Arizona which comes up every other day.
Because that is an easier option for you. There is nothing groundbreaking about it. Instead of questioning your own understanding of race you'd rather side with a racist. It just means you're lazy, not that you're doing god's work in voting for the dem nominee.
You're not wrong, however I'd argue it's they who are the most commodified, and by extension other people of color.
First of all, how dare you don't include me. How dare you.
Secondly, we all hate Trump too. We REALLY hate him and Republicans. We also hate the Democratic party because they're the ones challenging Republicans, and yet do feck all to empower working people. That's why we're so much more critical of them in this thread.
Oh, sorry, should have had you there too.
Dunno, to me it looks quite ridiculous that so much more energy is spent on criticizing and hating what is called from you guys 'the lesser of two evils', to the point, that honestly, just reading this thread gives the impression that a Trump victory (which would likely come with a GOP victory on Senate considering that people tend to vote similarly for Senate and president during presidential elections) seems preferable to a Democratic victory.
It is pertinent to mention Trump because the Democratic Partyy was directly responsible for him becoming president.
Black voters and white working class voters were the base of the Democratic Party for a long time.
Republicans merely pointed out that the Democratic Party had done nothing for White working class voters (which was true) and played them against Black voters.
Not that the Democratic Party had done anything for them either. But heck, they were far less likely to support the GOP.
Thus the DNC taking black voters for granted. Full circle to the Biden quote.
If the Democratic Party had taken up the policies Sanders ran on, they would take the presidency and Congress with full ability to pass any law they wanted for ordinary people. But we know why they wont.
Lets be honest, the Democratic Party had no intention to serve its voters. Their real base was and remains the huge industries. Military Industrial Complex. Insurance and Pharmaceuticals. Banks and Credit Cards. Oil and Gas. We are talking trillions.
Why Biden will Never sign a Medicare For All bill for example. Task Force? Its a complete farce.
Still think Trump is the problem?
Black voters and white working class voters were the base of the Democratic Party for a long time.
Republicans merely pointed out that the Democratic Party had done nothing for White working class voters (which was true) and played them against Black voters.
Not that the Democratic Party had done anything for them either. But heck, they were far less likely to support the GOP.
Thus the DNC taking black voters for granted. Full circle to the Biden quote.
If the Democratic Party had taken up the policies Sanders ran on, they would take the presidency and Congress with full ability to pass any law they wanted for ordinary people. But we know why they wont.
Lets be honest, the Democratic Party had no intention to serve its voters. Their real base was and remains the huge industries. Military Industrial Complex. Insurance and Pharmaceuticals. Banks and Credit Cards. Oil and Gas. We are talking trillions.
Why Biden will Never sign a Medicare For All bill for example. Task Force? Its a complete farce.
Still think Trump is the problem?
Happy Memorial Weekend lads.
The Democratic Party is a centre left party (by US standards) and is too entrenched in that mode of big-tent thinking to change.
If you disagree with the ideological split in American politics, your best option is a movement create a third major party. The Greens are a proper left wing party who could do with the support.
If you disagree with the ideological split in American politics, your best option is a movement create a third major party. The Greens are a proper left wing party who could do with the support.
That's not a good reason to think that we want Trump to win. And what else can we say about Trump? It's practically CE consensus that he's a bag of dildos.
PSL is also another party to consider, but probably doesn't have the votes that Green Party does. I'm leaning to PSL but if they're on the ballot here, then I'll vote Green.
I respect that.
He's a bit of a thicko, don't be surprised.
Bit gutted not to be mention here but for anyone interested I'm just in favour of whatever Putin wants tbh.
But like it or not (myself included I don't like this system, cause I come from Europe), at this stage is a binary choice. Either Biden wins or not. If he doesn't, then Trump wins. There is no middle ground.
Honestly, I am not trying to be a dick with you (I reserve that for Eboue). I just don't fully understand the intuition behind this behavior. In this real system (with many problems), isn't the solution to push for your ideas (in this case, left-wing ideas) during the primaries, and then after the primaries unite around the winner while trying to have him implement as many left-wing policies. Which is what Bernie did. He fought hard and bravely for his ideas, but when he lost, he accepted it and immediately endorsed Biden. If Biden does not win, I don't see how the left-wingers are better with Trump. In fact, I don't think that the differences in many things that the left-wing cares (especially health system) are marginal between Trump and Biden. They are really huge, and the left-wing position is much closer to that of Biden's.
So, in the end, it looks a lot like pettiness and cutting the nose to spit on the face, as much as a cliche it sounds.
NB: Finally, is vote Green a protest vote, or you genuinely think that voting them will achieve something and/or you believe in their ideas and their leaders? I don't know much about Hawkins, but the previous Green candidate was a total moron.
I'm appalled you weren't Putin to the list. Throw tomatoes at me nowBit gutted not to be mention here but for anyone interested I'm just in favour of whatever Putin wants tbh.
There is no universe where Biden pushes any left wing ideas. He's not a friend of the left. His donors will not allow it. And even if he promises something, I can't even trust him on his word because he lies so much. He did as recently as yesterday when he claimed he had the endorsement of the NAACP and they had to come out any deny it because they don't endorse. Regarding Bernie, he did his thing and I thank him for his service but I've moved on from him because he's done and washed. I don't care who he tells me who I should vote for. Also, a capitalist-based solution isn't "left" and I'd argue that public option will do more harm than good in the long run because it will not reduce the costs and thus be a stick to beat the idea with by Republicans when they eventually slither their way back into power (assuming Biden wins).
Second point. This is not being petty or cutting off my nose and all that. Votes need to be earned. Ain't no politician entitled to my vote or any working person's vote, especially wealthy-donor-centric ones who justify it by some racist shit or pointing the finger at the other bad guy. My reasons for voting for either PSL or Green is because they at least represent me and they could use the numbers to show growth in their agenda. Secondly, these Democrats need to see that they can't play these stupid games and then having us reward them with our votes. Earn my vote or eat a dick. They're also a party of the ruling class anyway so I don't ever expect them to be a true people's party.
That poor dog.Bit gutted not to be mention here but for anyone interested I'm just in favour of whatever Putin wants tbh.
If the choice is between laying your balls on the table so someone can go at them with a claw hammer or alternatively having someone continually jab you in the face and ribs with their fist, you’re going to choose the latter but don’t be pissed off if people aren‘t enthusiastically singing the praises of being jabbed in the face and ribs and don’t have the temerity, arrogance or ignorance to lecture people on why they should be happy getting punched in the face and ribs given the alternative.
More people are going to be killed if everyone gets hit with a claw hammer. As unpalatable as voting for face-jabbing might be, it's going to save more of the lives of the people around you. From a pragmatic point of view, it's the humane way to go.
If you choose a third, but inevitably doomed, option that involves neither claw hammers nor jabs, I'd respect that decision. At least on the level of principle. It might turn out to be a wasted vote in the short term, but it gets your voice heard and could potentially affect change in the longer term.
If non-tools refuse to vote, the claw hammers win by default.
In all honesty it's a waste of time to try to understand people like that. They aren't much different to the characters that dominated the Democratic party throughout the 70s and 80s who constantly lost elections by massive margins and gave insane amounts of power to the GOP. Swing voters saw someone like Bill Clinton and Al Gore (for better or worse) as a viable alternative to the increasingly leftward shift of other elements of the party whom they viewed as too liberal, which is why these politicians were able to change the presidential election paradigm of the preceding decades.
Much of it is messaging. Liberals might be right on most, if not all, issues but many humans tend to be resistant to change, regardless of its benefits, and often times need to face some degree of consequence to change behavior. Liberals tend to be seen as "revolutionaries" that will upset the order that people are "comfortable" with, even if it is an order that promotes severe inequalities. There also is the element of self-interest that many folks tend to gravitate towards instead of altruism. It's just basic human nature that can corrupt any political system. Therefore, liberal policies such as promotion of alternative energies or Medicare for All will likely gain more traction with voters if they can be successfully marketed as "sustaining the democratic order" or "promoting American values" as it will be seen in their self-interest and not feel like a vicious change of governance. Unfortunately, current politicians and activists who have taken up the "progressive" moniker are either too incompetent, incapable, or unwilling to come up with strategies to argue and counter-message for their ideas in this manner (although I have optimism in up and coming ones like AOC, who seem to understand politics at a raw and nuanced level). Fascists like Trump and his cronies have an advantage as, while they are radical in their willingness and approach to advance their ideas, they ultimately are all about promoting a conservative mode of governance that firmly plants the status quo.
My hypothesis is that very left voters such as those who populate this thread are likely not needed for Dems to win an election. The reliable swing voters to be gained are the ones that tend to be independent and centrist (and arguably republican). Thus, a winning strategy could be about optimization: shift your policies leftward enough to gain reasonable and competent progressives while not alienating centrists who will vote in November and are amenable to voting Dem. JFK, LBJ and their administrations were not very progressive at heart ("ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"), but could be influenced to support basic civil/human rights once in power. That opportunity will never arise with the GOP. This is the cold and hard calculation that figures such as Bernie and AOC have made.
Great post and very eloquently put.
Top post. You are probably right on about the fact that a winning combination for Dems will be a mix of centrist independents and large faction of reasonable progressives. The Dems have never won an election in recent history without some degree of both.
Fine by me but you'll have to explain that to the centrists who insist on lecturing us.
If they don't need our votes then stop shaming us then?
Not sure if there is such a thing as "our" in this case. There are several different gradations of progressives ranging from the zealots on the fringes to your average Sanders or Warren supporter who understands what's at stake - including Sanders and Warren themselves, and millions who voted for them. The former weren't ever going to vote for centrist under any conditions anyway, so there would be zero value in attempting to assuage them. The latter on the other hand are needed to win, which is why they will have a seat at the table.
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If you can't see why Biden saying that if you are voting Trump then you ain't black is so outrageous then you ain't black. Unless you are black, in which case you ain't ain't black, black.
Trump isn't racist and either is Biden . Trump goes with what gets him the most whether its power or money .
Biden was clearly making a quip and knows there are black people who will vote Trump and Republican . What he was saying was he doesn't understand why they would same as he doesn't understand why anyone would
If the Democrats lose to Trump a second time then they really have no one to blame but the corporate neo-liberal party insiders that got wrecked in 2016.
This year they better hope the Lincoln Project continues to produce ads because from what I've seen, Biden's marketing/communications team is as piss poor as Clintons.
cue November 2020, news articles and some people here with analysis about "How progressives lost Biden the election", "Democrats need to move to the right to win 2024", "Progressives love Trump more that you. Here's why" etc etc. Its not like we haven't seen it before.
Is now a centrist everyone who is to the right of Mao Zedong?
I am not talking about Biden who is clearly a centrist. But for people who want him to win, but who actually are quite left-wing themselves. People who even supported Sanders and Warren during the primaries.
I am not talking about Biden who is clearly a centrist. But for people who want him to win, but who actually are quite left-wing themselves. People who even supported Sanders and Warren during the primaries.
trump isnt racist you guys
Cheers
Part of the appeal for moderates, centrists towards Biden is the inherent racism that comes baked in with him and the DNC. Unlike Republicans, they just don't say it out loud. If you can't see how Biden is a racist or why he appeals to closeted racists like some on here, then you are the target audience DNC appeals to.
White supremacist racist Biden wins over 60% of the black vote. But what do those peasants know? It is us, the white people, who should pontificate them, and explain to them that they have been voting all along for a racist. And if they vote for Biden again, they're racists too.
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