2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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adexkola said:
I mean, yeah, but the question is whether there's any logic to it. We don't see any, up here at least.
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I believe he can expand his coalition. I don't think people actively HATE him. They may vehemently disagree with his policies, moderates, etc. But I think his biggest problem is he is so intractable in terms of just dissing people and voters in the party he needs to not only win but get anything done.

And Warren gets bashed as a sellout for doing kind of the opposite.
 
Raoul said:
Many of them aren't even Democrats, so it wouldn't come as a surprise if they sulked on the sidelines. Others who understand the damage a 2nd Trump term would do, will participate.
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One positive is that the economy has to show its true colors under his mandate. Every year from now on, GDP growth will be smaller and smaller.

Unemployment numbers had been masqueraded with shitty Apps/part time jobs. The reality can't be kept under the carpet for much longer.

Whoever gonna be the next president, will face big economic and social problems. Better if it happen to Trump.
 
Hamnat said:
I believe he can expand his coalition. I don't think people actively HATE him. They may vehemently disagree with his policies, moderates, etc. But I think his biggest problem is he is so intractable in terms of just dissing people and voters in the party he needs to not only win but get anything done.

And Warren gets bashed as a sellout for doing kind of the opposite.
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I haven't paid very close attention but from what I did watch and read I thought by and large Sanders ran a pretty positive campaign.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I haven't paid very close attention but from what I did watch and read I thought by and large Sanders ran a pretty positive campaign.
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Vitriol really only happen in the Twittersphere, unfortunately that’s where most of the talking heads/reporters etc... are active so it lends itself to TV coverage.
 
nimic said:
I get what you're saying here, but do you see the irony? Sanders won't support someone - he's the problem. Someone else won't support Sanders - Sanders is the problem.
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My point exactly
 
What I don't get about Bernie is that he could have totally avoided this if he tempered his language and message. His points about Denmark are excellent - no one is calling Denmark socialist but that's what his policies push us towards. If he were to just frame it that way, hell even come out and say, I'm not a socialist or a capitalist I believe in policies that work in other countries, and believe it can work for us.

Instead he's really doubled-down on his progressiveness. And for me that's beautifully naive. America is not ready for that. Even after Trump. And it's not surprising.

If Bernie had just toed the line a little bit - even optically - he could have avoided this and probably have wrapped up the nomination yesterday. Politics is, as much as anything, about compromises. Especially in the Democratic party, which is a big soup of disparate people and interests. He needs to appeal to at least a few of them, instead of just those that already agree with him.
 
Beachryan said:
What I don't get about Bernie is that he could have totally avoided this if he tempered his language and message. His points about Denmark are excellent - no one is calling Denmark socialist but that's what his policies push us towards. If he were to just frame it that way, hell even come out and say, I'm not a socialist or a capitalist I believe in policies that work in other countries, and believe it can work for us.

Instead he's really doubled-down on his progressiveness. And for me that's beautifully naive. America is not ready for that. Even after Trump. And it's not surprising.

If Bernie had just toed the line a little bit - even optically - he could have avoided this and probably have wrapped up the nomination yesterday. Politics is, as much as anything, about compromises. Especially in the Democratic party, which is a big soup of disparate people and interests. He needs to appeal to at least a few of them, instead of just those that already agree with him.
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Raoul said:
Biden or Sanders would both do well against Trump imo - simply by just sticking to things they would do and ignoring his nonsense.
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What is Biden planing to do ? He's talked about curing cancer.

Sanders would do far better in a debate with Trump but would struggle sadly with getting the vote out, if you can't win the primaries chances are you can't win the general.
 
Raoul said:
Biden or Sanders would both do well against Trump imo - simply by just sticking to things they would do and ignoring his nonsense.
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Biden will bite right away. The guy freaks out with simple questions by journalists, imagine when he has all the lights in his face and Trump is toying with him. It will be comedy gold at least.

Sanders is not senile yet, he definitely can keep up with Trump and stick to policy.
 
Sweet Square said:
What is Biden planing to do ? He's talked about curing cancer.

Sanders would do far better in a debate with Trump but would struggle sadly with getting the vote out, if you can't win the primaries chances are you can't win the general.
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They would both talk about their policies that are listed on their websites. The important bit is to not bite into Trump's trolling, which both of them would get. Biden for his son's adventures in Ukraine and a variety of other things, and Sanders for a litany of things he's said over the previous decades.
 
Raoul said:
They would both talk about their policies that are listed on their websites. The important bit is to not bite into Trump's trolling, which both of them would get. Biden for his son's adventures in Ukraine and a variety of other things, and Sanders for a litany of things he's said over the previous decades.
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While most of Biden policies are very vague and almost meaningless(Bring back american values for example), there is actually some decent-ish stuff in there. But again we still have this problem.



I agree that policy is the best way to debate Trump, well I hope it is.
 
crappycraperson said:
Short of economy collapsing Trump will beat Biden.
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what are you saying, he has the best plans


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Sam Seder from youtube had talked about this sometime in Jan. Apparently in 2004, it was a tight 3-man race. Dean was the "progressive", Edwards and Kerry were the centrists, Kucinich was the leftist. Dean was leading a week before Iowa, and got some endorsements also. But while he was attacking and getting attacked, Kerry and Edwards quietly organised and made deals. Kerry won on a last minute surge.

But the moment he did, the race ended. National polls went dramatically to him. He got all the national endorsements. He won almost all states. Dem voters were very scared of Bush and wanted the electable option. So they chose the guy who literally won the first contest.

Which is why this time, the priority was stopping Biden in Iowa. Otherwise the same logic would have repeated. That worked. Priority 2 was Bernie winning, which probably happened but the headline didn't. Pete got a bump but he never had a path forward after the first two. So I assumed Bernie will take it by default, like Kerry had. But either because he didn't win Iowa, or for his policies or age, he is not seen as electable while Biden is. It is like SC released a pressure valve which had been building up, and the voters went back to their old instincts.
Maybe Bernie's only path was literally winning the 1st 4. I thought leading after the first four would be good enough, but didn't realise how quickly voters will switch.
 
Raoul said:
They would both talk about their policies that are listed on their websites. The important bit is to not bite into Trump's trolling, which both of them would get. Biden for his son's adventures in Ukraine and a variety of other things, and Sanders for a litany of things he's said over the previous decades.
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exit polls were a little off yesterday, approx 5% swings, but this is a rough guide to what the avg dem voter thinks

 
Sweet Square said:
While most of Biden policies are very vague and almost meaningless(Bring back american values for example), there is actually some decent-ish stuff in there. But again we still have this problem.



I agree that policy is the best way to debate Trump, well I hope it is.
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Red Viking said:
Bernie Sanders have done a few big mistakes over the last few years that might cost him the nomination. When you introduce a new political ideology like Democratic Socialism then first you got to be sure you pick the most accurate one. He should have picked Social Democratism instead as it would have been far easier to sell to the older voters and far harder to smear campaign against. He would have had far better chance at pulling over people to his side this way. I know why this has happened by personal account as i´m a Social Democrat from Denmark and have given his team help from jan 2017 to June 2018. I helped build up his campaign during this period but because i come from an unknown background his team tried to play games with me and screwed me over on some major stuff so i stopped providing help. I cant say more than this however for obvious reasons.

He has trusted the wrong people and advisors on critical matters like rhetoric. His speech writer and pr people dont really utilize the rhetoric tools anywhere near enough that you need to at this level. They have aimed for the presidential campaign run off against Donald Trump without doing the preparation for the democratic primary in greater details first. If they had done a better job with the older voters then the current situation would have been avoided or at least mitigated better. He had to do a better job at building trust with the older demographic voters in the Democratic primary. Trust is a key aspect in politics and in this area his campaign staff have failed big time.

I still hope he wins the nomination because USA need changes to their health care system, educational system and the economic system needs reformed as well. He will still have played a big role in advancing new idea´s to the American public so his legacy will be one that laid the foundation for change over the next 20 years hopefully. He has failed to build up an clear political heir to the movement he help created as well and this could be a short to medium term problem for the movement going forward after the 2020 elections regardless of the outcome. It´s not over yet but something dramatic or great fortune have to happen in the race to change the direction now.
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In my opinion very fair criticism. Good post.

Beachryan said:
What I don't get about Bernie is that he could have totally avoided this if he tempered his language and message. His points about Denmark are excellent - no one is calling Denmark socialist but that's what his policies push us towards. If he were to just frame it that way, hell even come out and say, I'm not a socialist or a capitalist I believe in policies that work in other countries, and believe it can work for us.

Instead he's really doubled-down on his progressiveness. And for me that's beautifully naive. America is not ready for that. Even after Trump. And it's not surprising.

If Bernie had just toed the line a little bit - even optically - he could have avoided this and probably have wrapped up the nomination yesterday. Politics is, as much as anything, about compromises. Especially in the Democratic party, which is a big soup of disparate people and interests. He needs to appeal to at least a few of them, instead of just those that already agree with him.
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This was something Yang did a great job at comveying when he faces criticisms for UBI being socialist/communist. Bernie could have taken a page or two from Yang’s way of explaining politically controversial concepts.

Raoul said:
Biden or Sanders would both do well against Trump imo - simply by just sticking to things they would do and ignoring his nonsense.
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Biden already once said on live TV that he’d like to take Trump out back and kick his ass or something to that extent. He also doesn’t seem all there in his head so the chances of him biting are great if you ask me.

Fergies Gum said:
Looks like Warren will be endorsing Sanders.
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I’ll believe it when I see it. I will no longer refer to her as snake if she does. Perhaps salamander.
 
Revan said:
Outside of my field, I have no idea how to judge it. What I said is that just cause it is research (even a peer-reviewed one) doesn't necessarily make it true.

My point is quite rational, if it is better and cheaper, why Bernie is not posting the numbers? And if it is cheaper, is it cheaper long term (possibly true), or short-term (very unlikely). Even if in 10-20 years it will save money, if it will be more expensive immediately, it will require extra money which can be given only by the house (and the Senate needs to approve it). It will probably also require an increase in taxes, which again needs to go over both chambers.

That was my main point, quoting a poster who said that it can be done with executive orders. It clearly cannot.
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Man, if you'd just read any of the studies you would know that your questions are based on a fundamental misconception of healthcare costs. You've bought into the propaganda, as most of us do, because it's easier. The evidence for your rational, reasonable argument isn't there. It's about fear.
 
The only vaguely acceptable economic argument regarding the spiking cost of M4A in the short term, it is that since there are hundreds of thousands people tied up in the private insurance industry who stands to lose their livelihood, which can cause a mini recession.

But that ignores completely the spending capacity unleashed for lower and middle class households, they are the most likely to spend their disposable incomes and the money they save from premiums will go into the economy still, boosting other industries.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
The only vaguely acceptable economic argument regarding the spiking cost of M4A in the short term, it is that since there are hundreds of thousands people tied up in the private insurance industry who stands to lose their livelihood, which can cause a mini recession.

But that ignores completely the spending capacity unleashed for lower and middle class households, they are the most likely to spend their disposable incomes and the money they save from premiums will go into the economy still, boosting other industries.
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If I’m not mistaken, part of the spending plan is to include a transition for workers in that sector.
 
George Owen said:
Biden will bite right away. The guy freaks out with simple questions by journalists, imagine when he has all the lights in his face and Trump is toying with him. It will be comedy gold at least.

Sanders is not senile yet, he definitely can keep up with Trump and stick to policy.
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Sticking with policy would be Biden’s downfall in a debate with Donald. If anything, I think Biden would do as well or better than anyone due to the sheer absurdity of two old men babbling back and forth semi-coherently about random topics. They’re basically on the same level.

As opposed to say, Warren. She’d be arguing the specifics of some piece of legislation whilst he was just repeating Pocahontas 50 times and jumping around with his hand at his mouth in a mock Indian dance. It would be a disaster.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
If anything, I think Biden would do as well or better than anyone due to the sheer absurdity of two old men babbling back and forth semi-coherently about random topics. They’re basically on the same level.
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This is uhh pretty much the best post i've ever made on reddit, from the faraway days of early Jan when we all had the ridiculous notion that Biden would be the nomimee

folks, i'm going to bring the people the troops the universe the browns together under former president bomaba. i yield my time.
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i tell you what folks, the toilets, they don't have water in them. we brought back the jobs and we built the wall. fantastic wall, by the way, its see-through, amazing. nobody believed we could build the wall, with commie pelosi and sleepy schumer, but we won! we won so much and we will keep winning. i promise you, this time we will fix the toilets, the water pressure. and crazy joe biden, he's never had a real, you-know, look at how thin he is, he doesn't eat! he doesn't know these problems but i do. we'll fix the water!
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Brwned said:
Man, if you'd just read any of the studies you would know that your questions are based on a fundamental misconception of healthcare costs. You've bought into the propaganda, as most of us do, because it's easier. The evidence for your rational, reasonable argument isn't there. It's about fear.
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This seems the main defense of Bernie fans, but when asked the simplest question of them all "If it is cheaper and better, then why Bernie is never answering how much it will cost, and why is not putting online his detailed plan with all the numbers", no one is giving any answer.

The last point of your post is just a generic continuation of the pseudo-argument. Fear of what exactly?
 
Was this posted here?
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Promising to cure cancer, alzheimers, and diabetes. Hope we see a costed plan for this promise, after all voters might react badly to radical costly ideas.
 
berbatrick said:


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Let's not pretend the Dems haven't been doing the same with Trump and for years now. Clearly it doesn't matter much. Most people do not pay attention to this shit. Other than the rabid ones on the left and right. Most people make their choice early on/based on very limited info and that's pretty much it.

At the office all I heard today from folks both left and more right leaning who just want Trump gone was people raving about Biden because well...he "won" super Tuesday and bc of the person rushing the stage where Jill Biden was so "brave" to protect Joe. It's as simple as that for most.
 
Redplane said:
Let's not pretend the Dems haven't been doing the same with Trump and for years now. Clearly it doesn't matter much. Most people do not pay attention to this shit. Other than the rabid ones on the left and right.
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The assumption about Hillary winning was that her flaws were 10X in Trump. It didn't pan out that way. People saw 2 flawed candidates and ignored character/morals. I haven't seen the Boris/Corbyn numbers but something similar there - both hated, so Boris' obvious moral problems irrelevant.
 
berbatrick said:
The assumption about Hillary winning was that her flaws were 10X in Trump. It didn't pan out that way. People saw 2 flawed candidates and ignored character/morals. I haven't seen the Boris/Corbyn numbers but something similar there - both hated, so Boris' obvious moral problems irrelevant.
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I don't think Biden is hated as much as Clinton. Only Bernie supporters seem to hate him now and they keep telling Afro-Americans to hate him when they clearly don't.
 
George Owen said:
Biden will bite right away. The guy freaks out with simple questions by journalists, imagine when he has all the lights in his face and Trump is toying with him. It will be comedy gold at least.

Sanders is not senile yet, he definitely can keep up with Trump and stick to policy.
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Everybody thinks Trump is a debating genius just because he mocks someone or repeats the same juvenile sentence three times.He's fecking not, he's a Roy Cohn cocksucker and one mention of his hair would throw him off for the night.
 
crappycraperson said:
I don't think Biden is hated as much as Clinton. Only Bernie supporters seem to hate him now and they keep telling Afro-Americans to hate him when they clearly don't.
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Even before Clinton ran, I remember otherwise quiet nonpolitical people hearing her name and calling her bitch etc. Not getting anywhere near that with Biden.
 
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