2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
How is him making money off of Bloomberg inc, a financial data company he founded make him unfair or nefarious? Does anyone call Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg etc oligarchs and thieves?
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Apple/Jobs and FB/Zuck hold tremendous power over us in terms of money and influence, and even more importantly they control our data. Apple, facebook and Amazon are the modern oligarchs.

Even before the full scale harvesting of our personal and private data Facemash was Zuck theiving peoples likeness for exploitative, misogynist purposes. Steve Jobs preyed on cheap exploitation labour.

Throw them all in the same skip.
 
But what about Phillip Green and Richard Branson? won't someone think of these poor men.

Try putting your feet in the shoes of a billionaire for a change.
 
dumbo said:
But what about Phillip Green and Richard Branson? won't someone think of these poor men.

Try putting your feet in the shoes of a billionaire for a change.
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No one is asking to pity the rich but at the same time demonizing success and painting successful people as the enemy is no different than any of the far right idiots railing against the media elites and the educated classes.
 
Hawai'i, which was illegally stolen by the US, has a whole island (Lana'i) owned by Larry Ellison. 750 acres of land of northern Kaua'i is owned by Mark Zuckerberg on land that belongs to natives and he did so by doing the classic white man maneuver of tricking them into giving it away. Seriously feck these hoes.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
No one is asking to pity the rich but at the same time demonizing success and painting successful people as the enemy is no different than any of the far right idiots railing against the media elites and the educated classes.
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There's a difference between being rich and being a billionaire. They never earned their billions.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
No one is asking to pity the rich but at the same time demonizing success and painting successful people as the enemy is no different than any of the far right idiots railing against the media elites and the educated classes.
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But the implication in your post was that we don't (and we shouldn't) castigate Jobs and Zuck in the same way. I'm saying that we do (and we should) castigate them. And gave you reasons why we should.
 
What's wrong with having a cap at $900 million? Do you think they'll be able to survive? Poor billionaires.
 
That clip of Warren pulling Mike’s pants down is wonderful

Billions spent on social media adverts pissed down the drain in about 30 seconds :lol:
 
Florida Man said:
Why is it that poor people and poverty exist in the first place? Go back throughout history. It's all the result of rich and powerful people, whether it be royalty or billionaires, sucking up the wealth for themselves and leaving the peasants to fiend for themselves at a pittance. We've become somewhat fairer today since ancient times thanks to democratic institutions who had the courage to do something for the people. But more is needed, still.
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Our natural state is poverty. It doesn't mean we shouldn't care to reduce poverty in our societies, but you can't say the the first poor man appeared when the first rich one did too.
 
MTF said:
Our natural state is poverty. It doesn't mean we shouldn't care to reduce poverty in our societies, but you can't say the the first poor man appeared when the first rich one did too.
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You need rich people to exist for poor people to exist. Poverty is a more recent thing in all of human history. Our natural state (referring to hunter-gatherer/agricultural societies) before all of that was complete freedom.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
At the risk of sounding like a paid shill for Bloomberg, his campaign spending is a mere drop in the bucket compared to his philanthropic efforts:

Just this week there was a report in the NYT on how he donated billions of dollars to educational institutions, nicotine addiction, the WHO, gun safety, culture and so on and so forth.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/15/us/politics/michael-bloomberg-spending.html

Knock him on his policies but his money is the last thing to mock considering he spent $9.1 billion since 1997 towards philanthropic efforts.
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Florida Man said:
I meant recent in terms of human history, which is a long time. I just read that 90% of human history was the hunter-gatherer stage so that’s the context I’m working with.
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It's always been there. Even in hunting gathering stage, best Hunter lived well. Poor Hunter starved. Sick or injured Hunter died. Survival of the fittest and all that. It's just a variation of rich vs poor.
 
Florida Man said:
You need rich people to exist for poor people to exist. Poverty is a more recent thing in all of human history. Our natural state (referring to hunter-gatherer/agricultural societies) before all of that was complete freedom.
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Yes, and objectively poor. Scarce food, no medicine, no security. That life is still available to any human by the way. We are still free in that sense.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It's always been there. Even in hunting gathering stage, best Hunter lived well. Poor Hunter starved. Sick or injured Hunter died. Survival of the fittest and all that. It's just a variation of rich vs poor.
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Rich and poor belong in the context of money and currency. It was also still a true free society. And besides, the better hunter-gatherers weren’t rigging it against the “poor” ones. They just hunted well. And then slept and feck al day and night when they weren’t hunting.
 
MTF said:
Yes, and objectively poor. Scarce food, no medicine, no security. That life is still available to any human by the way. We are still free in that sense.
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This study seems to suggest otherwise.

We who live in modern society are also not genetically adapt to that lifestyle so that’s not exactly an option. Better to convert modern society into a more free one that currently instead.

edit: you also have to consider that you’re arguing from the viewpoint of only knowing modern society so you’re obviously not going to be fond of the lifestyles of tens of thousands of years ago. I’m talking about rich and poor in the context of money and elite/royal people exploiting and manipulating the common folk. Let’s not try to overthink this concept just for argument’s sake.
 
entropy said:
That is being generous. She attacked candidates on stage and prided herself on not taking any super pac money. This is just her being disingenuous and a liar.
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I was being generous but if her goal is to continue her campaign, then she really has no choice because she ain’t getting the grassroots money like Bernie. I do agree with you by the way.
 
Florida Man said:
I was being generous but if her goal is to continue her campaign, then she really has no choice because she ain’t getting the grassroots money like Bernie. I do agree with you by the way.
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She was having a go at the other candidates literally 2 weeks ago.

 
Florida Man said:
Rich and poor belong in the context of money and currency. It was also still a true free society. And besides, the better hunter-gatherers weren’t rigging it against the “poor” ones. They just hunted well. And then slept and feck al day and night when they weren’t hunting.
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Society may be rigged favouring billionaires. But do you think it's rigged against a person trying to get out of poverty? Definitely not. You can blame racism, probably...not billionaires. Money ain't finite.
 
dumbo said:
Apple/Jobs and FB/Zuck hold tremendous power over us in terms of money and influence, and even more importantly they control our data. Apple, facebook and Amazon are the modern oligarchs.

Even before the full scale harvesting of our personal and private data Facemash was Zuck theiving peoples likeness for exploitative, misogynist purposes. Steve Jobs preyed on cheap exploitation labour.

Throw them all in the same skip.
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You cannot just throw all big tech companies, you've heard of, into the same bucket. Apple is extremely different from Facebook and Google. The latter two offer "free" services and make money on harvesting + selling your data, thinly disguised as "advertising". Apple's business model is radically different and is not about selling your data - they sell actual products (hardware).

As a general rule, more "free" stuff a company gives, more they are all about harvesting your data. Facebook is almost entirely free for consumers, so no surprise that they couldn't care less about your privacy. Google has some paid services, so they are a tad bit less evil. Not much, however.

Fergies Gum said:
Over 30 million people watched Bloomberg get humiliated.

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Even more people watched another, less wealthy billionaire saying "grab them by the pussy" and it didn't matter. So...
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Society may be rigged favouring billionaires. But do you think it's rigged against a person trying to get out of poverty? Definitely not. You can blame racism, probably...not billionaires. Money ain't finite.
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How many of these billionaires are vested in companies that profit off of cheap labor in countries where extreme poverty exists? They could pay them great wages if they wanted to but they don’t. How many of these billionaires are buying up politicians to make laws in their favor and disregards the needs of the working class? Think of all the millions and perhaps billions that folks like Bloomberg gave to the GOP, a party who clearly try to feck over the poor.

And think of it like this too — the more wealth concentrated at the top, the less there is to go around.
 
nimic said:
I just find it a bit funny that a True Believer such as yourself would have a billionaire as your only alternative to Sanders, and then go on to talk about oligarchs. And while it's not quite the same, you've also expressed quite the fondness for John F. Kennedy, who essentially came from a family of the absolute elite, and would have been nearly a billionaire himself today (his father would easily have been one).

It's not incredibly damning or anything, it's just mildly interesting.
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We need to have a level playing field. Essentially what Sanders said.
Do these oligarchs want to do that? The simple answer is no.
In the end I would not have voted for Steyer when all is said and done even if I liked what he said in that debate. Best of the worst?


Glad it was interesting for you.
 
Florida Man said:
How many of these billionaires are vested in companies that profit off of cheap labor in countries where extreme poverty exists? They could pay them great wages if they wanted to but they don’t. How many of these billionaires are buying up politicians to make laws in their favor and disregards the needs of the working class? Think of all the millions and perhaps billions that folks like Bloomberg gave to the GOP, a party who clearly try to feck over the poor.
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Again not all poor people work for billionaires. A person being poor has no correlation to someone else being rich.





Florida Man said:
And think of it like this too — the more wealth concentrated at the top, the less there is to go around
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Basic economics 101. Wealth is not finite. There is no fixed amount of money in economy that needs to be distributed. It's an absurd myth with no basis in reality.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Again not all poor people work for billionaires. A person being poor has no correlation to someone else being rich.






Basic economics 101. Wealth is not finite. There is no fixed amount of money in economy that needs to be distributed. It's an absurd myth with no basis in reality.
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If billionaires buy governments who make policy that negatively affect the poor, then it definitely correlates and that’s just one example.


Wealth inequality increasing, rich getting richer, wages not rising when factoring in inflation... all facts. Myth busting left and right here.
 
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