2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Raoul said:
She's would be considered a progressive to a vast majority of Dem voters. Only the Sanders crowd would attempt to frame her as a centrist, for obvious reasons.
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A centrist can be progressive too. They can also be very liberal or very conservative. On the other hand, leftists can also be very conservative. Like do we really think people like Mao, for example, to be liberal? Must be understood too that while Warren has progressive traits, her approach seems to be more capitalist-centric or it’s typical politically correct responses if she doesn’t have much to elaborate.

Also check out her behavior when questioned about some of her bolder policy ideas. She’s quick to walk them back if she thinks it’s politically advantageous. We see this for Medicare 4 All. She’s also been back and forth in her voting record relating to defense. She’ll say one day that we need to get out of this or that, but another day will vote for defense spending increases. It’s as if she’s trying to appease right wing voters, which I can understand in terms of certain election strategies, but that’s the centrist approach. Therefore it is what I call her.

Another example I’ll point out is Yang. I love the guy. Has fresh bold ideas and has a great way of explaining himself and backing shit up with data. But he ain’t no leftist. I don’t even think it would be out of line to say he’s right leaning. But centrist fits him too. Because similarly to Warren and even more blatantly so, he takes a strong capitalist approach to his solutions. Listen to him on UBI. He can’t not explain it without using the word capitalism.
 
Raoul said:
He could be younger, healthier, and connect better with black voters. If he did the latter alone, he would probably be the leader.
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His numbers among whites are equal to or worse than amongst blacks.
 
Raoul said:
She's would be considered a progressive to a vast majority of Dem voters.
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This doesn’t mean anything when defining her political ideology though, any more than, for example, a vast majority of Republicans considering Bernie to be a socialist wouldn’t matter at all as to whether he’s a socialist. (He’s not).

I’m not even making this point to say she’s a centrist or not. Just it’s an extremely bad argument to make to say “she’s X because a majority of people think she’s X,” since most of those people will know feck all about political science. This thread has been a great example of that.
 
Charlie Foley said:
This doesn’t mean anything when defining her political ideology though, any more than, for example, a vast majority of Republicans considering Bernie to be a socialist wouldn’t matter at all as to whether he’s a socialist. (He’s not).

I’m not even making this point to say she’s a centrist or not. Just it’s an extremely bad argument to make to say “she’s X because a majority of people think she’s X,” since most of those people will know feck all about political science. This thread has been a great example of that.
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It’s still correct given that there is no official progressive platform other than random subgroups within the Dem umbrella who refer to themselves as such. Once it becomes subjective, what most people think progressive to be is generally how it winds up getting framed in the media.
 
The aggregate opinions of people do matter when defining political ideologies within the context of their time and place.

I’ve seen Bernie called ‘center-left at best’ on here...fecking hell.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
The aggregate opinions of people do matter when defining political ideologies within the context of their time and place.

I’ve seen Bernie called ‘center-left at best’ on here...fecking hell.
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He is center/moderate left though. Far leftists want to replace capitalism or completely change how it works at the very least. Bernie is essentially arguing for common sense policies that should be human rights anyway. Universal healthcare, higher education covered by taxes only, raising minimum wage to meet the rate of inflation, legalize marijuana, and other policies that involve government to ensure that our capitalist society works for everyone. He isn’t suggesting to nationalize our economy.

I also disagree with your assertion about context of opinions equals true definitions. By that logic, it’s accurate to say Bernie is a communist or Obama is a islamic leftist based on the context of Alabama opinions.
 
Raoul said:
Difference is a majority of Dems don’t consider them as such, unlike Warren who has been bequeathed the label for a few years now.
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It doesn’t matter what most Dems think if it’s inaccurate to begin with. Also an only left/right view of things is outdated like the food pyramid.
 
Florida Man said:
It doesn’t matter what most Dems think if it’s inaccurate to begin with. Also an only left/right view of things is outdated like the food pyramid.
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Except that it wouldn't be inaccurate if its subjective and open to interpretation by the masses.
 
Florida Man said:
He is center/moderate left though. Far leftists want to replace capitalism or completely change how it works at the very least. Bernie is essentially arguing for common sense policies that should be human rights anyway. Universal healthcare, higher education covered by taxes only, raising minimum wage to meet the rate of inflation, legalize marijuana, and other policies that involve government to ensure that our capitalist society works for everyone. He isn’t suggesting to nationalize our economy.

I also disagree with your assertion about context of opinions equals true definitions. By that logic, it’s accurate to say Bernie is a communist or Obama is a islamic leftist based on the context of Alabama opinions.
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good post.
 
Raoul said:
Except that it wouldn't be inaccurate if its subjective and open to interpretation by the masses.
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Did some reading and found that those definitions have changed over time. I’m basing my POV on the Nolan Chart though which has more explicitly explained labels. I still stand by my statement that a left/right only spectrum is outdated and unhelpful.
 
Red Dreams said:
A Palestinian endorsing a Jewish man.

The immigrants made a difference in Queens for AOC.
They will make a difference in the GE for Bernie.
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Can't imagine this will help Sanders much since most AOC, Tlaib, & Omar supporters are probably already on board. Pressley endorsing Warren won't be of much help to Liz either since her profile isn't nearly as big as someone like AOC.
 
Raoul said:
Can't imagine this will help Sanders much since most AOC, Tlaib, & Omar supporters are probably already on board. Pressley endorsing Warren won't be of much help to Liz either since her profile isn't nearly as big as someone like AOC.
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AOC, Omar and Tlaib as clear progressives helps differentiate Bernie from Warren, who on Health Care and Climate change is not on the same page as Bernie.
 
Red Dreams said:
AOC, Omar and Tlaib as clear progressives helps differentiate Bernie from Warren, who on Health Care and Climate change is not on the same page as Bernie.
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Most "clear progressives", which is basically code for Democratic Socialists, already support Sanders. There isn't much to be gained from these endorsements other than to reinforce support that already exists.
 
Raoul said:
Most "clear progressives", which is basically code for Democratic Socialists, already support Sanders. There isn't much to be gained from these endorsements other than to reinforce support that already exists.
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Should at least bury the idea that women of color don’t like Bernie, which was a bullshit statement to begin with. But what else can you expect from the likes of CNN and NBC?
 
Florida Man said:
Should at least bury the idea that women of color don’t like Bernie, which was a bullshit statement to begin with. But what else can you expect from the likes of CNN and NBC?
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They specialise in Identity politics.

But Warren or any of the others would have given anything for the endorsements Bernie got....all common sense policies.
 
Raoul said:
Can't imagine this will help Sanders much since most AOC, Tlaib, & Omar supporters are probably already on board. Pressley endorsing Warren won't be of much help to Liz either since her profile isn't nearly as big as someone like AOC.
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May be some help in convincing leftists who've found themselves torn between Bernie and Warren, and who were perhaps increasingly considering Warren due to her decent polling lately.
 
Red Dreams said:
They specialise in Identity politics.

But Warren or any of the others would have given anything for the endorsements Bernie got....all common sense policies.
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I imagine Warren will get her fair share of good high profile endorsements, especially if she wins nomination.
 
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