2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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InfiniteBoredom said:
Clinton won all 3 debates overwhelmingly by both immediate reaction and post debate surveys.

It did feck all. The idea that somehow debates will be the end of Trump is laughable.

What the nominee needs is genuine energy behind him/her and high likability rating, if 2016 taught us anything, it’s that when both candidates have terrible likability, voters go for the one not perceived to be ‘part of the establishment’. Trump won the 18% undecideds by double digits despite having the same unfavorable and slightly lower favourable.
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So is the idea Trump will run rings around Biden in a debate. Biden is facing beter debaters in his own field than Trump. If he gets through it he can beat him. I am not advocating Biden be the nominee but there is a strong chance he will be. And the polls show him in a lead in the swing states and in the national polls. As @Organic Potatoes said, if he can turn those states back into blue which the polls currently indicate he wins.

Hillary Clinton might have been a bad choice but Trump barely beat her despite GOP having 25 years of anti Clinton propaganda, election meddling and Comey's decision to reopen the investigation. It is not that difficult to meet the pathway to beat Trump. He is not Reagan in 84'. Any POTUS with the economy as it is should have 60% approval, he is in the 40s....imagine if things start to tank.
 
Boycott said:
Trump has never won a debate. That's my point. In the 2016 GOP primaries he was flip flopping all over the place as he was ignorant on issues, never a conservative and actually donated to dems and liberal organisations. In the GE Hillary schooled him on the issues and got panned for being "overprepared" whereas Trump's bombastic conduct got the headlines.

Joe Biden can beat Trump in a debate.
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Biden can maybe "beat" Trump in a debate in the same sense that Nixon beat Kennedy in a debate in 1960. People listening on radio will say Biden won just like they did with Nixon and Hilary in 2016. But all that matters these days is the sound bites and the stage presence and on that Trump made Hilary look weak. With this version, Senile Biden, all he has to do is the same. To the policy wonks in the audience Kerry trounced Bush in 2004 but all Bush had to do was look strong on certain issues on TV, which he did. Same with Trump.

Can't see Biden having any chance at beating Trump after looking at him first hand. He lacks the energy, the depth of intelligence and the sound bite moments. His expensive tailored suit fits really well though.
 
Biden doesn't need to beat Donald in a faux debate (which is what any debate with Donald amounts to), though he might do better than Hillary because there's plenty of latent sexism to go around here.

Biden is comfortable enough on the big stage to at least earn a draw, even if he's lacking gravitas. And that's all he really needs.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Biden doesn't need to beat Donald in a faux debate (which is what any debate with Donald amounts to), though he might do better than Hillary because there's plenty of latent sexism to go around here.

Biden is comfortable enough on the big stage to at least earn a draw, even if he's lacking gravitas. And that's all he really needs.
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It's not though. That's the thinking that got Kerry to lose.

Biden needs to make the case that he actually has the energy to be up for it (which he lacks with any extended exposure to the public), he has the intelligence to know what he is even talking about (he is good when on-script but sounds completely clueless when off script unlike Warren who you feel knows the issues better than Biden + any 3 members of his team put together) and that he can actually inspire and turn out the swing voting block of Those That Globalization Left Behind that Hilary completely failed to gain traction with.

The DNC and Biden have absolutely nothing to be overconfident about and failure to step back and understand the landscape is going to lead to Democrat loss like 2004 that shocks all the party insiders and corporate media who live in an upper middle class bubble but surprises none of the common people observing that the DNC corporate candidate failed top connect with the people yet again.

“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”
 
I’d really like someone who can represent people. feck having a political CEO. Big business can get their own lobbyists for their own bullshit.
 
The DNC has already written of Ohio.
Biden offers nothing to get those voters back.
Because Biden brings nothing to the table, the election will depend on turnout (Enthusiasm). Trump has it. Biden does not.
Bernie and Warren will bring Enthusiasm. Health Care and Education.
 
Biden will be like John McCain against Obama. He said he will veto every single beer instead of saying every single bill.
The Dems are making the same mistake they made with Hillary Clinton. Bernie, Warren or even Kamala will do better against Trump than Biden. People do not like establishment figures anymore and you cannot get more establishment than Joe Biden.
 
Foxbatt said:
Biden will be like John McCain against Obama. He said he will veto every single beer instead of saying every single bill.
The Dems are making the same mistake they made with Hillary Clinton. Bernie, Warren or even Kamala will do better against Trump than Biden. People do not like establishment figures anymore and you cannot get more establishment than Joe Biden.
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Harris is also establishment.

Bernie, Warren or Tulsi can beat Trump.
They will bring enthusiasm.
 
Tulsi is all over the place . She talks about caring for the oppressed and then goes and vote against BDS .
 
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/01/us/politics/next-democratic-debate.html

Only 7 Candidates Have Qualified for the Next Democratic Debate
While 20 presidential candidates debated this past week, far fewer are assured the chance of doing so again in September.

So you made it through the second set of Democratic debates. Congratulations! Ready to talk about the next ones?
The Democratic National Committee has set stricter criteria for the third set of debates, which will be held on Sept. 12 and Sept. 13 in Houston. If 10 or fewer candidates qualify, the debate will take place on only one night.

Candidates will need to have 130,000 unique donors and register at least 2 percent support in four polls. They have until Aug. 28 to reach those benchmarks.
These criteria could easily halve the field: The first two sets of debates included 20 of the 24 candidates, but a New York Times analysis of polls and donor numbers shows that only 10 to 12 candidates are likely to make the third round.

.
.
.
The other 11 candidates in the race have no qualifying polls to their name, and they all went into this week’s debates seeking a viral moment that would attract new donors and lift them, even briefly, in the polls.
The qualification rules do not require enduring support. Even a small post-debate surge could push a 1 percent candidate up to 2 percent in the small handful of polls he or she needs.
But for those who have not qualified, the Aug. 28 deadline is an existential threat. Candidates like Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York or Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington could be washed out of the race if they don’t get momentum from this week’s debates. And if you’re wondering whether they’re anxious, the answer is yes.

Ms. Gabbard’s campaign has calculated that she needs a new donor every minute to reach 130,000 by the Aug. 28 deadline, so if you go to her website, a timer next to the donation button begins counting down 60 seconds. Then the text changes.

“ Oh no!” it says. “The time expired and you didn’t donate!”
 
Red Dreams said:
The DNC has already written of Ohio.
Biden offers nothing to get those voters back.
Because Biden brings nothing to the table, the election will depend on turnout (Enthusiasm). Trump has it. Biden does not.
Bernie and Warren will bring Enthusiasm. Health Care and Education.
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I'm enthusiastic about Biden. Hes also leading in polls. I guess all of us dont count
 
Michael Moore On How To Defeat Trump (Hint: It's Not Being Moderate) | MSNBC

 
oneniltothearsenal said:
It's not though. That's the thinking that got Kerry to lose.

Biden needs to make the case that he actually has the energy to be up for it (which he lacks with any extended exposure to the public), he has the intelligence to know what he is even talking about (he is good when on-script but sounds completely clueless when off script unlike Warren who you feel knows the issues better than Biden + any 3 members of his team put together) and that he can actually inspire and turn out the swing voting block of Those That Globalization Left Behind that Hilary completely failed to gain traction with.

The DNC and Biden have absolutely nothing to be overconfident about and failure to step back and understand the landscape is going to lead to Democrat loss like 2004 that shocks all the party insiders and corporate media who live in an upper middle class bubble but surprises none of the common people observing that the DNC corporate candidate failed top connect with the people yet again.

“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.”
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I agree with much of what you're saying, but you're speaking from a meta viewpoint. I'm saying, as disappointing of a POTUS as he'd be, the numbers show a clear path to victory for Biden when focusing on the mechanics of electoral votes and not greater ideals.

Basically, in the instance where he wins the Democratic nomination, all he has to do is win Wisconsin. It's really that simple.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
I agree with much of what you're saying, but you're speaking from a meta viewpoint. I'm saying, as disappointing of a POTUS as he'd be, the numbers show a clear path to victory for Biden when focusing on the mechanics of electoral votes and not greater ideals.

Basically, in the instance where he wins the Democratic nomination, all he has to do is win Wisconsin. It's really that simple.
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And his disappointing presidency will lead us back to another right-wing populist/extremist.
 
Florida Man said:
Hard to take anyone seriously when they say they'd vote Trump over Bernie and blame Bernie for HRC's loss.
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You're sounding like Gillibrand now. I said that to trigger some of the hardcore Bernie/Warren support on here as I mentioned earlier too. I still think we're going nowhere under Bernie because all his bills are just going to get rejected without a 2/3rd majority.

Anyway, even if you can't take me seriously what about all the others who would vote Biden over the rest?
 
shamans said:
You're sounding like Gillibrand now. I said that to trigger some of the hardcore Bernie/Warren support on here as I mentioned earlier too. I still think we're going nowhere under Bernie because all his bills are just going to get rejected without a 2/3rd majority.

Anyway, even if you can't take me seriously what about all the others who would vote Biden over the rest?
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So you're trolling?
 
shamans said:
You're sounding like Gillibrand now. I said that to trigger some of the hardcore Bernie/Warren support on here as I mentioned earlier too. I still think we're going nowhere under Bernie because all his bills are just going to get rejected without a 2/3rd majority.

Anyway, even if you can't take me seriously what about all the others who would vote Biden over the rest?
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I don't take them seriously either. Biden is the epitome of an Obama dick rider. He was shit in his other presidential runs and the primary reason he's even a frontrunner today is because he was Obama's VP and many people who weren't paying attention somehow thought Obama's presidency was great, and therefore, project that legacy onto Biden. The second reason is because people who aren't paying attention were led to believe by headlines that beating Trump is the only goal and ate up the MSM bs that Biden is the only one to do so. People who are genuinely interested in his policies prioritize materialistic standpoints over human dignity. It's all about capital and GDP.

When are Americans going to realize that they need a government out to rep for THEM? Some of them do already, and out of HRC and Trump, Trump was the one who finessed his way into people's psyches that he was looking out for the working man even though he was obviously a con man. Obama's 8 years was a big reason if not THE reason enough people ditched neo lib lip service. And the DNC and folks like you somehow think a worse and older version of that Obama is the solution. Under a Biden presidency, guess what happens. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. Immigrants will still be scapegoated. Healthcare will still be a disaster. Race tensions will still be high. And when Biden tries to feed us bullshit about how the country got "better", people are going to be in a more desperate state and look to right populism again.
 
Resorting to what's "realistic" is a cop out from not having the balls to make bold decisions. In other words, being a little bitch.
 
Florida Man said:
I don't take them seriously either. Biden is the epitome of an Obama dick rider. He was shit in his other presidential runs and the primary reason he's even a frontrunner today is because he was Obama's VP and many people who weren't paying attention somehow thought Obama's presidency was great, and therefore, project that legacy onto Biden. The second reason is because people who aren't paying attention were led to believe by headlines that beating Trump is the only goal and ate up the MSM bs that Biden is the only one to do so. People who are genuinely interested in his policies prioritize materialistic standpoints over human dignity. It's all about capital and GDP.

When are Americans going to realize that they need a government out to rep for THEM? Some of them do already, and out of HRC and Trump, Trump was the one who finessed his way into people's psyches that he was looking out for the working man even though he was obviously a con man. Obama's 8 years was a big reason if not THE reason enough people ditched neo lib lip service. And the DNC and folks like you somehow think a worse and older version of that Obama is the solution. Under a Biden presidency, guess what happens. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer. Immigrants will still be scapegoated. Healthcare will still be a disaster. Race tensions will still be high. And when Biden tries to feed us bullshit about how the country got "better", people are going to be in a more desperate state and look to right populism again.
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Ah the classic "he's a corporate stooge" argument. I vote for policies not personalities. I don't care how much of a politician Biden looks like.

Obama was putting the country on the right direction. Hillary would have continued that but no, uninformed emotional voters made her into a villain and now you're doing the same to Biden.

People don't understand the ground realities of healthcare, race tensions or wealth inequality. If it was that simple there wouldn't be a problem. This is a process if you want successful change. The likes of Obama and Biden may seem boring to you guys but these are the politicians who know how to get stuff done.

The only problem with someone like Biden is that he doesn't pander to the emotional voter by talking in pure buzzwords. Bernie and Warren are masters at doing that. Warren is also a really good orator so I'll give her that but the reality lies in policy, not passion.
 
Florida Man said:
Resorting to what's "realistic" is a cop out from not having the balls to make bold decisions. In other words, being a little bitch.
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No it's not. In fact, talking about "being bold" is just a ploy used by politicians in making less informed voters believe they are somehow talking this big leap towards progress that others didn't. It doesn't work like that.

Making bold outlandish decisions don't make them great. Trump makes bold decisions all the time. In fact, what you're saying is exactly something his support is proud of -- "Isn't scared!"
 
shamans said:
Ah the classic "he's a corporate stooge" argument. I vote for policies not personalities. I don't care how much of a politician Biden looks like.
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Florida Man said:
People who are genuinely interested in his policies prioritize materialistic standpoints over human dignity. It's all about capital and GDP.
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shamans said:
Obama was putting the country on the right direction. Hillary would have continued that but no, uninformed emotional voters made her into a villain and now you're doing the same to Biden.
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Yes, the Obama tenure where over 1000 democratic seats were lost and led many people to turn to Trump. "Right" direction indeed. Don't forget his disastrous foreign policy after he finessed the whole world in his Cairo speech. Yep, right direction. good job.

shamans said:
People don't understand the ground realities of healthcare, race tensions or wealth inequality. If it was that simple there wouldn't be a problem. This is a process if you want successful change. The likes of Obama and Biden may seem boring to you guys but these are the politicians who know how to get stuff done.
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People understand the ground realities. I won't waste my time repeating it here to you because you fail to grasp it no matter how many times it has been mentioned.

shamans said:
The only problem with someone like Biden is that he doesn't pander to the emotional voter by talking in pure buzzwords. Bernie and Warren are masters at doing that. Warren is also a really good orator so I'll give her that but the reality lies in policy, not passion.
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If you truly think that's the only problem, then you're truly lost. Refer to my first comment in this post.
 
shamans said:
No it's not. In fact, talking about "being bold" is just a ploy used by politicians in making less informed voters believe they are somehow talking this big leap towards progress that others didn't. It doesn't work like that.

Making bold outlandish decisions don't make them great. Trump makes bold decisions all the time. In fact, what you're saying is exactly something his support is proud of -- "Isn't scared!"
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Why were FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln considered the best presidents then? The fact that you equate bold decisions to Trump says it all about you. Ironic, uninformed, uncaring, and disingenuous. Hell, you even admitted your lack of being informed yet write lots of comments. The irony is strong with you.
 
Florida Man said:
Why were FDR, Teddy Roosevelt, and Lincoln considered the best presidents then? The fact that you equate bold decisions to Trump says it all about you. Ironic, uninformed, uncaring, and disingenuous. Hell, you even admitted your lack of being informed yet write lots of comments. The irony is strong with you.
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Because I didn't watch 100% of the first democratic debate? :lol: Right so you've seen and read EVERYTHING and informed on EVERYTHING?
 
shamans said:
Because I didn't watch 100% of the first democratic debate? :lol: Right so you've seen and read EVERYTHING and informed on EVERYTHING?
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Yes, that one comment sticks out. and it shows with your other comments. Uninformed, and I stand by that statement. Your second sentence is too stupid to make a serious response to.

Also, good job completely missing the point and focusing on the one part that mattered the least in my comment.
 
Florida Man said:
Yes, that one comment sticks out. and it shows with your other comments. Uninformed, and I stand by that statement. Your second sentence is too stupid to make a serious response to.

Also, good job completely missing the point and focusing on the one part that mattered the least in my comment.
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Typical point scoring. Calling me out for being uninformed for not watching all of the democratic debate. My mistake for spending more time reading policies than basing my vote on who has the better speech.

If you're so informed why don't you explain what the government should have done instead of bailing out wallstreet as you put it.
 
shamans said:
Typical point scoring. Calling me out for being uninformed for not watching all of the democratic debate. My mistake for spending more time reading policies than basing my vote on who has the better speech.

If you're so informed why don't you explain what the government should have done instead of bailing out wallstreet as you put it.
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Don't brag about reading policies when you are demonstrating your poor reading comprehension skills. I referenced wall street bailouts in response to your asinine comment about magic wand waiving. There was no intention nor was it implied that it was a discussion about the merits of those decisions.

So let's get back to the original point. You equated boldness to Trump, to put it simply. I listed three of arguably the best presidents in US history who were known for, believe it or not, making bold decisions. But you slid out of answering that like Biden slid out of answering certain questions last night.
 
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