2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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nar, this time they need to legally prevent him from running.
They should encourage him to run as an independent and spit the Republican vote. Mind you, I doubt he'd have the fund-raising capabiiities for that.
There is one thing that really worries me about all this. If about 150M Americans voted and Biden won the popular vote by about 3M, that still leaves about 72M Americans who totally think voting a narcissistic sociopath into office is totally cool. 
Oh, ok my mistake. Don't see Republicans going along with that though.
And there lies the problem for Biden.There is one thing that really worries me about all this. If about 150M Americans voted and Biden won the popular vote by about 3M, that still leaves about 72M Americans who totally think voting a narcissistic sociopath into office is totally cool.
Of course for many people most of the first paragraph will be true as well as I think a fairly large influence (and surely it was for a lot of Republicans who voted Biden.) But the point is that in many individual cases, that 'alignment' also isn't enough to 'tinct them blue' so to speak.
Where that particular aspect can't push them over that hump is when they consider the aggregate perceived sleights over those past decades; and from there any amount of 'any fool can tell Biden's more in line with us than that buffoon' gets subsumed under either 'but he's still going to enable the slow erosion of ________' or that aforementioned suppressed 'f*ck the libs they cannot be forgiven' that they can't help but feel, or a combination of both. Again, this is only regarding this particular element of 'perceived cultural wounding', and from there this element itself gets mixed in with their other decision-making factors towards 'who would best protect traditional values' as you pointed out.
Also, I wouldn't put xenophobia on the 'can override' list for the 'center chunk' of 'Trump voters', or if I did, it would be with a GIGANTIC caveat: that it's only so prominent currently because certain extremely powerful entities find it essential to their existence to keep those sores bleeding. For all but a minority, it's anathema to their core beliefs and they absolutely know it and they'd like to act accordingly - but what keeps them from doing so is a whole other encyclopedia-length discussion. Basically in any 'normal' election cycle, it'd be far less of a factor than all the other 'traditional values' evaluation factors that these people would use. So you're right to include it but if it were up to me I think it needs that asterisk.
P.S. Good posting in the CE forum with you. It was a nice throwback to the old days.
P.P.S. don't forget the big wedge between Catholicism and the Protestantism in those 'red areas'. If anything that'll be a small to even a large minus against Biden for most people there.
(P.P.P.S, white Catholics (skew red) and hispanic Catholics (skew blue) are politically opposed.)
Yes, this. A Trump bid in 2024 is probably good news for the Democrats, the one sure-fire way of energising their own voters.
we know how many people voted and for who, that's all the data you'd need
You're oversimplifying it. I bet plenty of these people simply prefer Republican policy, so they'll vote Republican all time.There is one thing that really worries me about all this. If about 150M Americans voted and Biden won the popular vote by about 3M, that still leaves about 72M Americans who totally think voting a narcissistic sociopath into office is totally cool.
Whilst I would agree that it's an over-simplification, the following still holds true...
How does Trump's racism relate to their personal policy preferences? Are you demanding somebody to just vote a different party because his party leader is an ass?Whilst I would agree that it's an over-simplification, the following still holds true...
Yes.
No, but I'm demanding that someboby votes for a different party (or just don't vote GOP period.) if the leader is a sociopathic racist. This has not been a normal situation, it has not been about politics.
Then where do you draw the line? Would it be reasonable to vote in fascists if they better your personal circumstances?
The fact of matter is Trump isn't even good policy wise for the majority of people who vote for him. Classic case of turkeys voting for Christmas after being duped by the likes of Fox news and very rich people, using patriotism, Jesus and faux meritocracy as guises while blaming others for their own personal woes.
I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there should be a point where the moral failings of a leader whose policies you like become enough for you to prefer a more "decent" candidate whose policies you disagree with. You are voting for the actual person to be president, not their list of policies.
Don't you think you're unfairly generalizing all Republicans now?
I'm saying that people who vote for Trump are either ignorant and oblivious to the fact he's no good for them, flat out bigoted, or are better off and happy to embrace his bigotry and inflammatory rhetoric as long as his policies benefit them personally. Would you be happy to watch your neighbours' homes burn to the ground if it improves your lot?
That line of thinking got a point if it’s UK/Au/Canada parliamentary system, when the party leader is just an instrument to advance the party core beliefs and agenda, if BoJo decides to become a full blown fascist with not even a pretense of respecting democratic norms tomorrow, Tories would coup him and put Reese-Mogg in charge, for instance.
In the Republican Party and Trump case, Trump became the party, he dropped any pretense they had about small c conservatism, respect for checks and balances and brought the ugly, racist, cultural grievances undercurrent to the fore and made it the driver of national politics. The excuse of ‘party can keep him in check’ only worked for 2016 (even though we knew it was bs looking at how he browbeat them throughout the primaries), but to live through that for 4 years and still voted for him means you never really care for democracy to begin with.
In the Republican Party and Trump case, Trump became the party, he dropped any pretense they had about small c conservatism, respect for checks and balances and brought the ugly, racist, cultural grievances undercurrent to the fore and made it the driver of national politics. The excuse of ‘party can keep him in check’ only worked for 2016 (even though we knew it was bs looking at how he browbeat them throughout the primaries), but to live through that for 4 years and still voted for him means you never really care for democracy to begin with.
So he is Dirty Don?
Which ones? The 93% of them who voted for a racist psycho?
Problem here is, alot of people in the millions vote Republican merely because they just do, they hate DemoRATS etc etc, no matter who the leader is, could be Elmo or Jack the Ripper, they'll still vote no matter what, then factor in the racists and the same people in 2016 that voted for Trump purely because the other devil you know was Hillary Clinton who has a long history of corrupt politics of sorts, Biden is still viewed now as a career politician that had 40 years to do something and all he did (in their eyes) was pass a crime bill that targeted black people and make money off the back of the taxpayer // same thing as being the VP to Obama along with the view that he's a creepy senile old feck however ironic that maybe given the other candidate but Trump will always remain the anomaly amongst the rule.
So had there been a more legitimate candidate that was younger, vigerious, energetic and not too much history of taxpayer dime, that 71millon number of Americans would be severely reduced.
Come on. Secrets? You know they just showed him War of the Worlds, when he asked about Roswell.
Not being an ass, being a racist. And yes.
Shocking post.
Bingo. Good post.
Well said.
Not hugely dissimilar to the UK. People are easily duped. Just get one or two simple negative phrases about the opposition in their heads and they don't look any further into it.
What will 'Donny' do next?
What's the betting the anthology of 'Trumpism will run like; books written on how he won the Republican nomination and then books and political writings on how he won the first Presidential Race; then how he played a four year 'gig at the Whitehouse; then on how he lost the second Presidential race; but most interesting of all perhaps is ...what did 'Donny' do next'? This part of the 'Trumpian' anthology has the potential to be a block buster!
The first three elements; Republican nomination/Presidential race/ four year gig at the Whitehouse, will all happen no doubt; lots of money to be made for those 'in the know' about Trump...its already happening even now! How he lost the presidency maybe not be so popular a subject unless, that is, in the unlikely event some sort of verifiable/real fraud in mailing-in voting is uncovered, then it would be a blockbuster; especially if it allowed Trump to continual whine how he had the Office of the Presidency 'stolen' from him; imagine the book titles alone on this matter!
Of course it depends a lot on Trump himself, if like St Paul, he takes "the time has come for me to gone, I have run the race to the finish, I have kept the faith... approach and rides off into the sunset, somewhere in Florida no doubt! Then perhaps 'What Donny did next" will be of little interest. However if he remains like a 'Spectre' hovering over the Biden Administration (and perhaps the GOP too!), being as awkward and sniping from behind cover, as he can, then all bets are off.
Whatever happens, its likely only to feed into the 'Trumpian Odyssey'
What's the betting the anthology of 'Trumpism will run like; books written on how he won the Republican nomination and then books and political writings on how he won the first Presidential Race; then how he played a four year 'gig at the Whitehouse; then on how he lost the second Presidential race; but most interesting of all perhaps is ...what did 'Donny' do next'? This part of the 'Trumpian' anthology has the potential to be a block buster!
The first three elements; Republican nomination/Presidential race/ four year gig at the Whitehouse, will all happen no doubt; lots of money to be made for those 'in the know' about Trump...its already happening even now! How he lost the presidency maybe not be so popular a subject unless, that is, in the unlikely event some sort of verifiable/real fraud in mailing-in voting is uncovered, then it would be a blockbuster; especially if it allowed Trump to continual whine how he had the Office of the Presidency 'stolen' from him; imagine the book titles alone on this matter!
Of course it depends a lot on Trump himself, if like St Paul, he takes "the time has come for me to gone, I have run the race to the finish, I have kept the faith... approach and rides off into the sunset, somewhere in Florida no doubt! Then perhaps 'What Donny did next" will be of little interest. However if he remains like a 'Spectre' hovering over the Biden Administration (and perhaps the GOP too!), being as awkward and sniping from behind cover, as he can, then all bets are off.
Whatever happens, its likely only to feed into the 'Trumpian Odyssey'
This is just great!
The first problem with that argument is there's no reason to assume the first "illegal" vote they'll find is Biden's. We've been here before, after all.
"Illegal" votes happen in every election, but they don't align very well with Trump's messaging at all.
The Republican party are the party of gerrymandering. They've openly stated it as a legitimate political goal, published a strategy to achieve it, and succeeded in many cases.
Why would they be any less likely to encourage some of these rules to be bent? Or why would the Democrats be any more successful in their quest? The reality is, most illegal votes have nothing to do with what Trump's talking about, and there's every reason to expect to uncover thousands of illegal votes for him too.
The bigger problem with the argument is that there are never enough illegal votes to swing the results. With late changes to the regulations there's more room for this errors and "latitude of judgment" to play a role, but they will fall in both directions.
Hi, I have my own minor blinds pots, but have you seen my plans on mechanisation of agriculture?
Vote Adolf MGGA
Looks like he is going to reach 306
Alright, how shall we generalize the minorities who voted for Trump? Uncle Toms?
Why is there even a need to generalise? People have different priorities. Most would have voted for selfish reason ranging from wanting lower taxes to abortion ban or immigration ban. The point here is while not all of them are card carrying racists, they were willing to turn a blind eye to blatant, overt racism in order to get what they want.
People also identify themselves differently, they may see themselves as conservative/Christian before black/Asian/Latino etc.... Even in the Hispanic communities, there’s conflict in identifying as white or Hispanic for many of them, which guides their political belief in some cases.
Just went through the thread pages from when the win was called. So much gold.
You'll have to narrow that down a bit, are you talking about Biden or Trump voters?
Just went through the thread pages from when the win was called. So much gold.
It's been a few epic days, for sure
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