2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Giggs86 said:
You mean Libcafe.

I know i'm on the wrong forum where there is a heavy liberal bias from non-US majority. It is basically a support group for people who share and encourage the same political beliefs while labeling and shutting down every thing that is not aligning with their political views as fake news. I know the majority here probably never been to the US, so please try and get your news from other sources as well besides CNN and other left propaganda machines.
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I'm an American and I don't believe anything you are saying. I don't get all of my news from CNN, which I can't stand most of the time myself but I look at both sides of an issue and try to find the best position. When you get all your news off Facebook, OAN, or some bs like that, your brain turns to mush. I saw an ad on OAN about Portland, Oregon burning and I laughed, the rioting was literally limited to one block of downtown that I drive by often, real amazing how stupid people who fell for that crap are. Trump is on his way to lose and I'll give you a hint, its not because of some crazy conspiracy with secret ballots but because educated people see him for what he is, an idiot and a clown. You mention Kim Jong Un, he made Trump his b*tch and is close to a nuclear tipped ICBM, real benefit that dialogue served. The economy he had was Obama's, which he proceeded to run into the ground with his stupid handling of the pandemic. We would have 160,000 less deaths if Trump had spent less time in his stupid briefings and just consistently encouraged everyone to wear a mask and social distance, I say this as a biomedical researcher who understands the coronavirus (and by the way, I agree with Trump that an effective vaccine will be out soon, no thanks to him as its due to us having amazing scientists who would get it done under any president).

I wish you and others well but in the long run you are shooting yourself in the foot by not viewing all sources of news with equal skepticism. There's a big world out there believe it or not and you are missing out by consuming narrow sources of news.
 
calodo2003 said:
One was a delayed second yellow where I played advantage & the visitors scored the tying goal. The sending off was the home team’s best player for the final 10ish. minutes. Second was replaying a free kick where the home team took the lead with only minutes left as I was still setting up the wall & had told them to wait on my whistle, but they took the shot anyway. So there was some anger in the air. But no apparent firearms in view.
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Jeez. CNN reporter just emphasized the Open Carry State thing. She seems very flustered herself.

Feel for those Poll workers :(
 
Trump taking claim for the economy is a bit like Obama hitting a 300 yard drive, then, while the ball is still in the air, Trump bends down & retrieves the tee, then takes credit for the drive.
 
Giggs86 said:
You mean Libcafe.

I know i'm on the wrong forum where there is a heavy liberal bias from non-US majority. It is basically a support group for people who share and encourage the same political beliefs while labeling and shutting down every thing that is not aligning with their political views as fake news. I know the majority here probably never been to the US, so please try and get your news from other sources as well besides CNN and other left propaganda machines.
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Who do you rely on for US political news? FOX or ‘Q’?
 
Eboue said:
its the best explanation ive heard yet.
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It seems really odd to me that people are scratching their heads about this. It could be a simple case of a sizeable population in the country thinking Trump is good enough to lead the country. Maybe there is no mystery in it. They just love him. Doesn't necessarily mean they love every word that comes out of his mouth or they agree with everything he has done. The media likes to exaggerate this racist, sexist, foolish face of Trump. I have watched CNN over last few years. Almost every news, every hour is spent on talking trash on Trump. So when Trump says he is a victim of evil, biased media, people would start believing him. For a normal person whose life hasn't got any worse or better than it was 4 years before, all the media talk about how America has been embarrassed by Trump would seem way over the top and unbelievable.
 
Giggs86 said:
What other president would have done is just speculation and wishful thinking at this point. Blaming 230k deaths on Trump is one of the most idiotic accusations. This is a global pandemic that caused millions of deaths all over the world.
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Other western countries with stronger and more consistent public health interventions based on scientific advice did much better than the US in terms of excess death per capita (the most reliable stat). Given their general attitudes to governance and policy, it is very likely that any of the Democratic leaders would have gone for similar measures in the US, and that this would have led to better stats. It is difficult to quantify that difference exactly, but it would have been significant, and you can justifiably blame Trump for that. (Same with Bolsenaro in Brazil.)
 
Dudu said:
Jeez. CNN reporter just emphasized the Open Carry State thing. She seems very flustered herself.

Feel for those Poll workers :(
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Yah crazy, she seems understandably, completely flustered. When she said they’ve gotta go back to their cars when they’re finished, really puts things into perspective.
 
Man of Leisure said:
Yah crazy, she seems understandably, completely flustered. When she said they’ve gotta go back to their cars when they’re finished, really puts things into perspective.
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Wouldn’t trust the cops in Arizona further than I could throw them.
 
Giggs86 said:
How exactly did you get that from what I wrote?

My point is that blaming those deaths on Trump is idiotic, with it being a global pandemic that affected every country, lockdowns/masks or not.
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Obviously you can’t blame him for every death. People were going to die. It’s a pandemic. But the fact that you could even blame the president for one singular death more than should have occurred is mental. You have a president who dismantled the Pandemic response team. Who has repeatedly given advice that goes against the suggestions of scientist. Who upon closing the border to China then didn’t ramp up production of PPE (even when an American based PPE provider alerted his administration to their reliance on oversees supply chains). Who has held incredibly well attended political rallies during it. Has fanned the flames of anti mask and anti regulation rhetoric. Has even publicly downplayed the danger of the illness, whilst being recorded privately acknowledging it. You can say without a shadow of a doubt his actions killed Americans. Not in a ‘oh he made an error of judgement in his response during a time when no one knows what is going on’ sort of way. But in a ‘actively putting his campaign and opinion poll above the health of his population’ sort of way.

Maybe you can do some mental gymnastics and absolve him of it all. But feck me, I really hope you aren’t that blind a supporter.
 
There was a discussion few pages back about what motivates Trump voters, especially minority voters. Obviously many different factors, and it looked like people were focusing on (as with 2016) racist whites and (new) bigoted Latinos.
One of the big ones that I forgot about, that no pollster checked, and that was totally silent from both campaigns: the CARES act $1200, signed by Donald J Trump, and the $600/week increase in unemployment benefits that came after it.

US poverty rate was at its lowest for decades for a short 3-month period after the $1200 and while the unemployment was enhanced, and lower-wealth people could show savings for basically the first time ever. Neither party talked about it too much, and neither campaign pushed messaging about expanding or continuing the cash. So the only name associated with it was the one in the signature.

On a side note, Pelosi was asked about negotiations for extending this stimulus and let slip in the interview that she didn't want to do it because "Trump just wanted to give people money' while she wanted additional things (mask mandates and stuff like that). Now, I don't know if anyone outside like 5 twitter leftists have even bothered seeing the interview, I didn't catch it in any media outlet, but if anyone did see it I think they would much prefer Trump over his opposition.
 
calodo2003 said:
Trump taking claim for the economy is a bit like Obama hitting a 300 yard drive, then, while the ball is still in the air, Trump bends down & retrieves the tee, then takes credit for the drive.
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It's also just normal politics. Most people believe that the president has a big impact on the economy, good or bad, trend or no trend. Generally speaking that's not true regardless of which president you're talking about. Most of the growth or decline that comes within a presidents' 4 year term comes from stuff that came before he entered office, and the influence they can have overall is very incremental, even if they have the full 8 year term.

The only real exception to that is when there's an economic shock and the conditions exist for a dramatic intervention in the economy. The decisions they make to respond to that are more influential, but they are also largely dictated by the nature of the shock. Trump can take credit for the record Q3 growth and it is clearly true that he favoured re-opening the economy over the well-being of the nation, so you would expect that added a little bit on top vs. a more cautious approach that would have been taken by Biden. But irrespective of who was in charge, there was going to massive growth. Likewise for past economic crises.

That doesn't make intuitive sense to the average voter because that's not how people talk about the presidents' economic impact. So it's entirely normal Trump would profit off of that in the way basically every president in the same scenario has in the past. And there have been many on both sides.

berbatrick said:
There was a discussion few pages back about what motivates Trump voters, especially minority voters. Obviously many different factors, and it looked like people were focusing on (as with 2016) racist whites and (new) bigoted Latinos.
One of the big ones that I forgot about, that no pollster checked, and that was totally silent from both campaigns: the CARES act $1200, signed by Donald J Trump, and the $600/week increase in unemployment benefits that came after it.

US poverty rate was at its lowest for decades for a short 3-month period after the $1200 and while the unemployment was enhanced, and lower-wealth people could show savings for basically the first time ever. Neither party talked about it too much, and neither campaign pushed messaging about expanding or continuing the cash. So the only name associated with it was the one in the signature.

On a side note, Pelosi was asked about negotiations for extending this stimulus and let slip in the interview that she didn't want to do it because "Trump just wanted to give people money' while she wanted additional things (mask mandates and stuff like that). Now, I don't know if anyone outside like 5 twitter leftists have even bothered seeing the interview, I didn't catch it in any media outlet, but if anyone did see it I think they woul much prefer Trump over his opposition.
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Those additional things also included state and local aid which would be necessary to provide essential services for local communities, in fairness. A little abstract for the average voter but it's not like she was holding out for things that were totally irrelevant to the average person, or reliant on them sharing the same view about how to tackle the pandemic. Most people don't want their local government to go bankrupt.

She didn't approve further direct economic aid because she was playing political games in two ways: she wanted more stuff that fits with her political goals, and she didn't want to give Trump the popularity boost from putting money directly into people's pockets just as the election came in. The former seems like bad political calculus but the latter seems like it might have been necessary to get Biden into office. It absolutely would have been a win for Trump and if he only needs a few thousand people in a few states to win the election now, then it's entirely plausible to believe it could have swung it. Which in the long run you can justify as being in the interest of the people you've fecked over, because when there's a democratic president they'll get a larger stimulus plan through. Disgusting part of politics though, and also could be another critical misjudgment from Democrats in believing that they can get it through the senate. I reckon her political games are a big part of the reason for losing some of the house.
 
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Giggs86 said:
You mean Libcafe.

I know i'm on the wrong forum where there is a heavy liberal bias from non-US majority. It is basically a support group for people who share and encourage the same political beliefs while labeling and shutting down every thing that is not aligning with their political views as fake news. I know the majority here probably never been to the US, so please try and get your news from other sources as well besides CNN and other left propaganda machines.
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:lol:
 
Brwned said:
It's also just normal politics. Most people believe that the president has a big impact on the economy, good or bad, trend or no trend. Generally speaking that's not true regardless of which president you're talking about. Most of the growth or decline that comes within a presidents' 4 year term comes from stuff that came before he entered office, and the influence they can have overall is very incremental, even if they have the full 8 year term.

The only real exception to that is when there's an economic shock and the conditions exist for a dramatic intervention in the economy. The decisions they make to respond to that are more influential, but they are also largely dictated by the nature of the shock. Trump can take credit for the record Q3 growth and it is clearly true that he favoured re-opening the economy over the well-being of the nation, so you would expect that added a little bit on top vs. a more cautious approach that would have been taken by Biden. But irrespective of who was in charge, there was going to massive growth. Likewise for past economic crises.

That doesn't make intuitive sense to the average voter because that's not how people talk about the presidents' economic impact. So it's entirely normal Trump would profit off of that in the way basically every president in the same scenario has in the past. And there have been many on both sides.
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Not saying there’s not a credible both sides play here, but you made my point about having very little practical effect on the hypothetical drive as well as the economy. Wasn’t opining too much in the Q3 recovery as it’s a unique case, I was discussing the first three years.

It’s the use of alternative facts & perpetuation of myths that is the most jarring to the system.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:


At latest update Fulton have about 17k votes to be counted. Latest NYT update lagged behind the official count by about 5k.
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Hope there’s armed guards stationed at the polling center or wherever the actual ballots are located.

Right call, though.
 
Cheimoon said:
Other western countries with stronger and more consistent public health interventions based on scientific advice did much better than the US in terms of excess death per capita (the most reliable stat). Given their general attitudes to governance and policy, it is very likely that any of the Democratic leaders would have gone for similar measures in the US, and that this would have led to better stats. It is difficult to quantify that difference exactly, but it would have been significant, and you can justifiably blame Trump for that. (Same with Bolsenaro in Brazil.)
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Cuomo handled it horribly and no one is blaming him
 
Dudu said:
So where's the issue.. is it fellow students who take things too seriously and cause trouble on away teams, or is it the parents/community?
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Parents / attendees of the games to an Ivory soap purity level.
 
Redplane said:
You Southerners take your football way more serious than us up north or maybe I just haven't been exposed to it out here :lol:
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That’s why it’s called a religion down here. A few big high school stadiums are larger than mid major college stadiums.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:


At latest update Fulton have about 17k votes to be counted. Latest NYT update lagged behind the official count by about 5k.
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We will get one more update from AZ I believe, and the rest the following morning.

Glad they are shutting down. Get those Poll workers to safety asap!
 
calodo2003 said:
Not saying there’s not a credible both sides play here, but you made my point about having very little practical effect on the hypothetical drive as well as the economy. Wasn’t opining too much in the Q3 recovery as it’s a unique case, I was discussing the first three years.

It’s the use of alternative facts & perpetuation of myths that is the most jarring to the system.
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Oh yeah I know you meant the first three years, it's obvious that Trump was riding on a growing economy and that he didn't have any real influence on it. It's possible he may have had a slightly positive effect on the markets above the norm, but not on the wider economy. But in the reverse we know for certain Democrats would have done exactly the same thing. It's just how it works, completely seperate from Trump's usual bullshit that really is just completely making things up. Here he's not making things up he's just using a convenient frame of analysis that feels intuitive to the voter and has been presented by every president in the same position for literally centuries.
 
Won't be surprised if one of these voting centers has a mysterious fire and/or the fire sprinklers activated. Imagine that chaos. Might be a Proud By standing by waiting his orders.
 
calodo2003 said:
That’s why it’s called a religion down here. A few big high school stadiums are larger than mid major college stadiums.
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Aye. Doesnt a TX high school have one that even rivals a major college stadium or something? We obviously have U of M and State here when it comes to super-sized school stadiums but that's obviously college. Not sure ive ever seen anything remotely similar around here for a high school.
 
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