2018 US Elections

George Owen said:
That doesn't sound too good at all to be honest. It's the future of the country on the line here.

I much prefer the system here in Chile.

Every citizen is automatically registered to vote. You go to your assigned voting station with your photo identity document (national ID card), vote with the paper ballot, put your signature in some book next to your ID number, and done.

the votes are then counted right there in front of representatives of all the candidates, so there is no cheating.
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Yeah, I can understand people's reservations but in practice it does seem like voter fraud is minimal. You still run the risk of a prison sentence if found out and it's not like you make a huge difference to the electoral outcome by double voting. Seems like you're risking maximum harm for minimal gain.

Your system certainly sounds more robust, but it seems like the government sets out to ensure its citizens always has a correct ID with which to vote. If the UK required ID then I'd be absolutely adamant that it did similar before rolling out the requirement.

What I dislike most is some middle ground where a new ID law is summarily introduced but no effort made to ensure the people conform to it.
 
Suedesi said:
That doesn't sound like a great solution in a country like the US. It gives credence to Trump and his sycophants saying that illegals are voting Democrat, altering the elections and giving rise to further xenophobia.

I think you need to show a state ID or driver's license, or birth certificate or passport at the voting booth and then be able to vote.
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You're probably right, a UK state of affairs would play into a fear mongering rhetoric and I guess that rhetoric is the method by which more and more requirements have already been introduced. I guess the problem is that having ad-hoc state by state requirements that are subject to constant change always means that some portion of the electorate is getting disenfranchised.

From what George Owen reports it seems like Chile has a pretty good system.
 
roseguy64 said:
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I really dislike this whining. Why is it so hard for the Democrats to win the majority of votes among those people who can do two simple things:

1. Register to vote.
2. Have a valid ID.

Why is it only Democrat voters that have problems with this? Why Republican voters never whine about this?
 
CA_vampire said:
I really dislike this whining. Why is it so hard for the Democrats to win the majority of votes among those people who can do two simple things:

1. Register to vote.
2. Have a valid ID.

Why is it only Democrat voters that have problems with this? Why Republican voters never whine about this?
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Why not read up on it and discover their objections for yourself?
 
CA_vampire said:
I really dislike this whining. Why is it so hard for the Democrats to win the majority of votes among those people who can do two simple things:

1. Register to vote.
2. Have a valid ID.

Why is it only Democrat voters that have problems with this? Why Republican voters never whine about this?
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:rolleyes:
 
'Just why is it that the worst-off in society struggle to motivate themselves and to afford things?'
 
CA_vampire said:
Why don't you read again what I wrote and try to understand it?
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Either you were earnestly posting or asking a series of bad faith questions in order to make a rhetorical point. Since I have little time for the latter I refer you to my previous response.
 
'whining'

A word that the right-wingers could use to describe just about any protest/march/concern in history.
 
CA_vampire said:
I really dislike this whining. Why is it so hard for the Democrats to win the majority of votes among those people who can do two simple things:

1. Register to vote.
2. Have a valid ID.

Why is it only Democrat voters that have problems with this? Why Republican voters never whine about this?
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Just a wild guess but maybe because in certain states it only happens to one side?
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Either you were earnestly posting or asking a series of bad faith questions in order to make a rhetorical point. Since I have little time for the latter I refer you to my previous response.
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It is a real question. Since you have such a hard time to comprehend it, I will rephrase it for you:

Why republican voters do not have problems with:

1. Registering to vote.
2. Producing a valid ID.

Both of these seem easy for me (and for all the people I happen to know). And the main question is: Why is it so hard for the democrats to win the majority of votes among this class of people? I am one of them and I have already voted for democrats.
 
golden_blunder said:
Just a wild guess but maybe because in certain states it only happens to one side?
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You mean that, for example, there are States where they refuse to issue you with an ID if you are not republican? Not really, this is not true.

And you can actually register as a republican but vote for democrats.
 
CA_vampire said:
It is a real question. Since you have such a hard time to comprehend it, I will rephrase it for you:

Why republican voters do not have problems with:

1. Registering to vote.
2. Producing a valid ID.

Both of these seem easy for me (and for all the people I happen to know). And the main question is: Why is it so hard for the democrats to win the majority of votes among this class of people? I am one of them and I have already voted for democrats.
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Since you are dense.

The Republicans target people of color, many of whom do not have drivers licenses and IDs.
Just for starters.
Even when they do manage to register as in Georgia they are not allowed to vote until a federal judge ruled against a scum bag like Kemp who is doing everything in his power to suppress black voters.
Just an example.

Please go away with your Republican talking points BS.
 
CA_vampire said:
It is a real question. Since you have such a hard time to comprehend it, I will rephrase it for you:

Why republican voters do not have problems with:

1. Registering to vote.
2. Producing a valid ID.

Both of these seem easy for me (and for all the people I happen to know). And the main question is: Why is it so hard for the democrats to win the majority of votes among this class of people? I am one of them and I have already voted for democrats.
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all of these things have been asked and answered, which is why you were told to read up on it
 
Eboue said:
all of these things have been asked and answered, which is why you were told to read up on it
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I am not satisfied with bullshit answers. If you do not have anything to contribute, you could just not write anything. (socking eh?)
 
Red Dreams said:
Since you are dense.

The Republicans target people of color, many of whom do not have drivers licenses and IDs.
Just for starters.
Even when they do manage to register as in Georgia they are not allowed to vote until a federal judge ruled against a scum bag like Kemp who is doing everything in his power to suppress black voters.
Just an example.

Please go away with your Republican talking points BS.
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Since you are dense:

Why the Democrats have such a hard time to win the votes of 51% of the whites? Not all the whites are rich billionaires, are they?
 
CA_vampire said:
I am not satisfied with bullshit answers. If you do not have anything to contribute, you could just not write anything. (socking eh?)
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And we appear to be less than satisfied with your bullshit questions. Seems like we're at a bit of an impass. Basically it's like this: Nobody gives a damn that you are not satisfied and nobody is required to educate you if you won't do it yourself.
 
Eboue said:
why dont you demonstrate even the tiniest bit of good faith before someone wastes their time engaging with you
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You don't demonstrate even the tiniest bit of brain, so I will just ignore you from now on.

(there is actually an Ignore function in this board, it is a good thing!)
 
CA_vampire said:
Since you are dense:

Why the Democrats have such a hard time to win the votes of 51% of the whites? Not all the whites are rich billionaires, are they?
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Because whites aren’t a homogenous group.

People are selfish and more often than not vote for their economic interest. A black billionaire would vote Republican for the tax cuts and a white Southern man would vote Democratic for keeping his Social Security.

Income and education level are better indicator of voting behaviour rather than race.

And all of this is still irrelevant to the actual issue here, which is that one party is engaging in unprecedented level of voter suppression throughout the country to ensure that their increasingly smaller share of the electorate is enough to keep them in power. The Dems can win the popular vote by 6% and wake up tomorrow to see Republicans retaining control of both chambers. If you are fine with that, then sure the system works great.
 
CA_vampire said:
You mean that, for example, there are States where they refuse to issue you with an ID if you are not republican? Not really, this is not true.

And you can actually register as a republican but vote for democrats.
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And you can actually vote democrat but the machine automatically changes it to republican votes

Dirty tricks happen
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Because whites aren’t a homogenous group.

People are selfish and more often than not vote for their economic interest. A black billionaire would vote Republican for the tax cuts and a white Southern man would vote Democratic for keeping his Social Security.

Income and education level are better indicator of voting behaviour rather than race.

And all of this is still irrelevant to the actual issue here, which is that one party is engaging in unprecedented level of voter suppression throughout the country to ensure that their increasingly smaller share of the electorate is enough to keep them in power. The Dems can win the popular vote by 6% and wake up tomorrow to see Republicans retaining control of both chambers. If you are fine with that, then sure the system works great.
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The actually issue here is that with whining you win nothing.

I have seen similar whining in every past election and nothing actually happened or changed (except for more whining). Obama had both houses for two years, why didn't he bring some relevant laws if it is such a huge issue?

Perhaps the democrats should change their target audience. Perhaps 90% of the citizens in this country have problems, or are worried about the future, or dislike billionaires. There is no reason to focus so much on those who cannot even get an ID. Try to get the Congress first, and then pass laws that protect the votes of all citizens.
 
CA_vampire said:
The actually issue here is that with whining you win nothing.

I have seen similar whining in every past election and nothing actually happened or changed (except for more whining). Obama had both houses for two years, why didn't he bring some relevant laws if it is such a huge issue?

Perhaps the democrats should change their target audience. Perhaps 90% of the citizens in this country have problems, or are worried about the future, or dislike billionaires. There is no reason to focus so much on those who cannot even get an ID. Try to get the Congress first, and then pass laws that protect the votes of all citizens.
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And then the increasingly right wing judicial branch start repealing all of them, like how the Roberts Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2015.

And Democrats ran primarily on healthcare this cycle, it’s not like their primary argument is voter suppression, which however is still a reality and turning winnable races to losses.

Also I’m not sure how identifying a problem and trying to solve it either by challenging or making more people aware of it is ‘whining’. But you do you. And yes, Obama was a feckless leader for the needy and most vulnerable citizenry.
 
CA_vampire said:
Perhaps the democrats should change their target audience. Perhaps 90% of the citizens in this country have problems, or are worried about the future, or dislike billionaires. There is no reason to focus so much on those who cannot even get an ID. Try to get the Congress first, and then pass laws that protect the votes of all citizens.
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Change target audience? :lol: Genius plan.

Try to get Congress? :lol: Even better. I'm sure they have thought of that one and have and are trying it. I reckon it's a tad difficult when you have so much voter suppression, gerrymandering, voting machines switching votes, polling booths changing rules and refusing or discouraging voters, and many votes being switched, ignored or destroyed and the President himself spreading fear and bullshit about illegal voting when the irony is the Republicans have been benefiting from illegal voting practices for years and years, yet everyone gets all worried when someone not white votes.

You are literally arguing and whining about people whining about a massively corrupt and unfair system that costs candidates and a party from holding power in many different areas around the country. And you have the nerve to mock others and call them dense? Fml :lol:
 
Last week I went to a new doctor (specialist). I gave them my insurance card, but no, they wanted my driver's license, too! Without a driver's license you can't drive, you can't have an account in the bank, you can't have a job, basically you can't do anything.

Let's say a democrat helps those people that don't even have an ID, vote for him. What is he going to do for them after he is elected? Nothing! He got the votes and he is never going to see them again, or think about them ever again, and he can focus on the wall street guys that have the real money. Cheap votes.

On the other hand, the vast majority of the middle class is overworked, makes little money, is worried about medical insurance, and so on. Why not focus on getting their votes and really do something about them? (And yes, do something about the real poor, too.) It is well established now that the majority of financial gains in the past 40 years went to the top 1 percent. Focus on the middle class. Focus on the money. Everything else is just a distraction or just excuses.
 
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After reading up a bit about it, I think the system is very archaic. First you have to register to vote, which I tried to do, and the system didn't recognize me despite the fact that I've lived in NYC for about 15 years. It asked me to call a number and fax some paperwork, and given that voting in NYC doesn't really matter, I didn't bother - but still I can see how other people can be affected, and in swing states it could have real consequences.

On the other hand, the fact you don't need a picture ID to vote strikes me as mad. You need a picture ID to buy cigarettes, buy alcohol, go to the doctor, collect benefits, use Medicare/Medicaid (part A/ Part B) - so I don't buy the bullshit excuse that people don't have picture ID's (otherwise I don't know how these people function/survive).

I think every citizen should be automatically registered to vote, and should be able to approach any polling station in their state, have them scan the back of your ID (like they do tickets for games / concerts) and go about your business. This way you can't vote twice or impersonate somebody else. Voting for citizens is a right, not a privilege, and both parties should work on a solution.
 
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