I thought he was correct in what he was saying. He did lose his temper a bit, which accentuated his point.
2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins
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I thought he was correct in what he was saying. He did lose his temper a bit, which accentuated his point.
Let me know if you get any trace of a coherent response.
So was there coherence in my response of the very simple idea of defending Sanders and his economics from right wing detractors . . . or was there that ever lingering "condescension" in yours?
Everything is subjective, and most things are opinions. It is after all a discussion board.
You seem a bit tightly wound today Nobby. What's troubling you ?
Ha, fair enoughEverything is subjective, and most things are opinions. It is after all a discussion board.
Finally you admit he was right. Bless. I´m glad someone was losing their temper in the run up to 2008.
I'm more than happy to attribute credit when it is warranted. Andrea Mitchell, in the above Youtube clip, was completely out of line with her question given that Bernie himself has faced monumental challenges in even getting to where he is today.
Oh my Drumpf may have finally sealed his own fate. What a fecking moron. The New York Times has been running a story about Trump and his relationships and treatment of women, he was live on CNN responding to them quoting the article and told them to watch one of the women interviewed and quoted by the NYT on other TV channels to see what she had to say. For fecks sake, how did he know she would be appearing on other shows and what she would be saying if he hadn't paid her off? Unbelievable, and he has more neck than a feckin giraffe yet the brains of an amoeba.
He is also being called out big time on him not producing his tax returns.
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/05/...ssive-tax-evasion-campaign-finance-violation/
Sit back and watch, this could be fun!
He is also being called out big time on him not producing his tax returns.
http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/05/...ssive-tax-evasion-campaign-finance-violation/
Sit back and watch, this could be fun!
Be prepared of 5 plus months of this sort of bizarre tabloid stuff as the media lacerates every aspect of his life.
The key word. The serious journalists of the US must be absolutely salivating at the chance of having a proper go at him. He still presumptive and we've had three stories holing him below the waterline already, if America is listening.
I like Bernie as a moral person and politician, but his economic plan is retarded... with the greatest respect to you or Bernie.
Too bloody right.
To go a little bit in more depth on some Bernie things that I find problematic.
$15.00 minimum wage
His central tenet is that employees are being taken advantage of.
In a capitalistic society, employment is voluntary.
Employees are not forced to work at a job that pays them less than a fair market wage.
If there was widespread exploitation, surely these workers would find a job elsewhere and some frictional barriers aside to finding a new job, free mkts would resolve it.
This is not a point that our U-R-Peeing friends easily grasp given the inflexible job market there.
Also, secondly $15/hr in NYC vs. $15/hr in Iowa are two different things, as cost of living varies differently among regions, states, cities etc.
Therefore, it makes sense for minimum wage to be decided on a local basis, not a federal one.
Finally, instituting $15/hr min wage, will make it harder for businesses to expand & hire more. McDonald's-type jobs are not supposed to providing "living" wages, they're supposed to provide "spending" money and job experience for high-school students. Warren Buffett, a vocal liberal and the world's most succesful investor, has argued against min wage.
Free college and medical care
Incredibly short-sighted, and "making Wall Street speculators pay for it" appeals to emotion rather than logic.
A tax on Wall Street would have unintended consequences (reduced liquidity, more costs for banks, subsequent job reductions etc), but ignoring that because "banking is bad"
The idea would cost $70 billion per year, more than twice what the federal government spends on Pell grants.
Would free college make higher education more efficient, more innovative and higher quality?
Part of the reason college is so expensive, is precisely because government guarantees student loans, so shitty colleges charge $40-$50k a year in tuition, knowing full well that poor souls that get accepted to these colleges will get saddled by loans guaranteed by the govt. It's a terrible scam. You have Iona, Muhlenberg and dare I say Trump Univ charging similar fees to Harvard, Yale and Stanford. The result is a bunch of gender studies and sociology graduates with no feckin clue how the real world works.
There should be more technical/vocational degrees like in Europe, because there's a shortage of people who could plumb, do electrical jobs etc.
As an aside, Bernie keeps bragging about how he wont take a dime of money from "big companies, and their vested interests" *BUT* ... then he goes an accepts money from big unions !!! What about THEIR 'vested interests'? Isn't that money that's been essentially collected from member dues to 'purchase' politicians?
$15.00 minimum wage
His central tenet is that employees are being taken advantage of.
In a capitalistic society, employment is voluntary.
Employees are not forced to work at a job that pays them less than a fair market wage.
If there was widespread exploitation, surely these workers would find a job elsewhere and some frictional barriers aside to finding a new job, free mkts would resolve it.
This is not a point that our U-R-Peeing friends easily grasp given the inflexible job market there.
Also, secondly $15/hr in NYC vs. $15/hr in Iowa are two different things, as cost of living varies differently among regions, states, cities etc.
Therefore, it makes sense for minimum wage to be decided on a local basis, not a federal one.
Finally, instituting $15/hr min wage, will make it harder for businesses to expand & hire more. McDonald's-type jobs are not supposed to providing "living" wages, they're supposed to provide "spending" money and job experience for high-school students. Warren Buffett, a vocal liberal and the world's most succesful investor, has argued against min wage.
Free college and medical care
Incredibly short-sighted, and "making Wall Street speculators pay for it" appeals to emotion rather than logic.
A tax on Wall Street would have unintended consequences (reduced liquidity, more costs for banks, subsequent job reductions etc), but ignoring that because "banking is bad"
The idea would cost $70 billion per year, more than twice what the federal government spends on Pell grants.
Would free college make higher education more efficient, more innovative and higher quality?
Part of the reason college is so expensive, is precisely because government guarantees student loans, so shitty colleges charge $40-$50k a year in tuition, knowing full well that poor souls that get accepted to these colleges will get saddled by loans guaranteed by the govt. It's a terrible scam. You have Iona, Muhlenberg and dare I say Trump Univ charging similar fees to Harvard, Yale and Stanford. The result is a bunch of gender studies and sociology graduates with no feckin clue how the real world works.
There should be more technical/vocational degrees like in Europe, because there's a shortage of people who could plumb, do electrical jobs etc.
As an aside, Bernie keeps bragging about how he wont take a dime of money from "big companies, and their vested interests" *BUT* ... then he goes an accepts money from big unions !!! What about THEIR 'vested interests'? Isn't that money that's been essentially collected from member dues to 'purchase' politicians?
I'm out, viva United!
Ah feck, just remembered there are primaries tonight. God damn this still technically contested race.
Well, that´s profound and thoughtful. Mind elaborating?
So, we´ve done the cutting taxes on the wealthy and liberal economics and deregulating the financial industry and ended in a crashed economy and a socialized bail out . . . well, that´s retarded.
We fund 200,000 soldiers in 144 countries and two different trillion dollar never ending wars and have destabilised the middle east . . . well, that´s retarded.
We fund an endlessly failing multi billion dollar drug war and fund the greatest incarceration rate the world has ever seen that´s destroyed minority communities and corrupted our Latino allies and their flimsy democracies . . . well, that´s retarded.
We´ve saddled our student population with a trillion dollar debt while deregulating these for profit colleges that have ended up in scandal and bankruptcy and who´ve built the lion´s share of that trillion dollar student debt . . . well, that retarded.
We´ve kept minimum wage well below a living standard and encouraged the walmart economy that ends up in government subsidising full time wages with food stamps and welfare . . . well, that´s retarded.
We´re set to spend massively from our children´s future on the disaster results of climate change while electing a majority in both houses who believe the climate change is a hoax, and are anti green energy/pro fossil fuels . . . well, that´s retarded.
We carelessly keep drunkenly funding the pentagon which can´t even be audited, buy tanks and whatnot our generals say we don´t need and continue to fund the F 35 trillion dollar disaster that can´t even fly . . . well, that´s retarded.
We´ve given billions and billion in corporate subsidies and facilitated trillions in tax havens . . . well, that´s retarded.
And investing in subsidized college is retarded??????
So please do elaborate how Bernie Sanders economic plan is retarded, more specific than you just saying so.
Edit: Sorry I missed your discourse on unproven fears of the 15 dollar minimum wage and again, unproven fears of taxing wall street speculation.
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The rules I meant were the ones who failed to register as Democrats in time.
Polls this early aren't that accurate. Bernie has a distinct advantage over Hillary in national polls right now because he's basically never been vetted and benefits from his relative obscurity. After 5 months of a Presidential campaign, he certainly wouldn't be. He's being judged against the two best known people in the entire race, who suffer from their notoriety because neither is very likable. Once it gets down to the actual general election, Sanders' numbers wouldn't be what they are.
Can't embed this but a hilariously weird interview, Fox News are now asking people 'if Hillary keeps losing how is she winning?" and then "is it rigged in her favour with the superdelegates?"
She's winning because maths.
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/...king-passerby-if-system-rigged-hillary/210454
Steve Doocy is a strange, strange man.
She's winning because maths.
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/...king-passerby-if-system-rigged-hillary/210454
Steve Doocy is a strange, strange man.
I already did a few posts above.
Doocy is the king of morons. Its like he was genetically engineered in a petri dish to work at Fox.
Steve Douchey has offspring working there too.
Economy is doing fine, and better than Europe which has a more socialized and progressive taxation.
Trump will make Korea, Japan and Europe pay their share for the defense and in the process will make America great again.
Clinton's mandatory minimum sentences were/are problematic, but it's our fault for corrupting our Latino allies
If a student wants to take $100k in loans to graduate with a degree in sociology or women's studies, well it's their right I suppose. No one forced anyone to go to college, I suppose.
It's a better system than increasing the minimum wage and increasing costs of doing business, which will get passed to consumers anyways.
That it is, I agree.
Would you rather cede hegemony to the Russians or Chinese?
Trump will shut those down, pronto.
One question remains: When Bernie loses to Hillary, will you break ranks and vote for the Donald?
Wow, you really couldn't script what's going on in the world right now!
I know, right? Three goals in one game!!
I don't think anyone expects him to win the actual election by this kind of blowout (these numbers would probably be 350-400 in the electoral college).
It's the trendlines that are worrying - Trump has been trending up against her to the point of drawing even (+10->+3)while Bernie's downward trend has been less pronounced (+15->+10)*. In isolation her fall could be explained as the bump from Trump getting the nomination and GOP consolidation but the fact that Bernie's numbers haven't fallen correspondingly mean there's more to it.
Which brings us to his support (and her weakness) among independent voters. Infi.Boredom have argued circularly and endlessly about this but this is what I believe:
1. Many of her base voters (minorities) will vote Dem regardless of the nominee, the spectre of Trump should be enough to motivate the entire traditional Dem base (especially women)
2. On the other hand his base (youth) might be de-motivated without him, too anti-Hillary or too progressive (read: Jill Stein) which could cost her
3. Independent voters have, throughout every poll, and every open primary (even in Georgia!), shown a marked love for Sanders and dislike of Clinton.
Against this you have the fear-mongering capacity of the entire rightwing/Fox machine (tax!) which will absolutely affect him, but you also have public support for his policies (example - new poll: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/poll-health-care-bernie-sanders-223206). Note that Obamacare, which Hillary is wedded to and is expected to rise in costs right around November, is less popular than simply scrapping it and both are less popular than single-payer.
Basically I am doubtful whether the fear-mongering can damage him enough among independents to change a double-digit lead to a loss while a lead of 4 is super-vulnerable, based on the economy.
*RCP hasn't updated with yesterday's/today's polls, it has the numbers as +13 and +5.7.
Interesting post @berbatrick . That '58% to 37%' thing didn't register with me for a minute, I was thinking 'that's a huge range!'
@Ubik
She won the last Clinton county on offer.
On that note, why on earth are there so many Clinton counties?
#wherearethesanderscounties #rigged
She won the last Clinton county on offer.
On that note, why on earth are there so many Clinton counties?
#wherearethesanderscounties #rigged
Clinton about 4,000 votes (a little over 1%) ahead in Kentucky right now
Noooo! So close to the clean sweep.
There's George Clinton - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Clinton_(vice_president) - he accounts for NY and Ohio.
Most of the rest look like they're this guy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWitt_Clinton - DeWitt Clinton, classy name. He's a county whore.
Sanders County incoming in Montana
Is anyone watching the Trump-Megyn Kelly interview?
I think the logic is a lot more simple. There is strong "anti-establishment" sentiment on both sides of the aisle to the point that it is in the mainstream. People really dislike politicians, who they perceive as self-serving, corrupt and incompetent. Obama took advantage of it in 08 and now Sanders is getting support because of it. The GOP is equally affected by it.
Trump takes advantages of various groups, that are angry because they feel disenfranchised. Culturally, politically or economically. In the end nationalism and racism will not be enough to win the general election; his only path to win the general election is by playing the "Washington elites feck main-street" card.
Hillary is the perfect target for that campaign, because she confirms every single cliché about corrupt and self-serving politicians. He doesn´t need to make anything up; he just has to scandalize all those skeletons in her closet. We´ll see if it works, but it is a plausible.
Throwing dirt against someone like Sanders, who has a track-record of being fairly principled and who is playing the outsider card himself is a lot more difficult. He offers traditional angles to attack him ("socialist"; higher taxes; etc.pp), but those would make it a lot harder for Trump to broaden his coalition beyond GOP voters.
Im sure it will drive the few news cycles
I've just been following the guardian updates.
Trump said he'd live tweet the interview, and has just been retweeting people saying how well he's doing
My personal highlight:
Now 126 votes between them. Would be exciting if it mattered
Impressive from Bernie. He's doing an event in California right now.
He's now leading! Though the remaining Louisville vote may swing it for Hillary.
Genuinely absurd that after over 400,000 votes cast, the difference between the two is a few more than 200 votes
Pretty embarrassing for Hillary since she crushed Obama in KY 8 years ago.
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