2016/2017 Title race

Liverpool have scored four goals seven times in the League this season.

It's still December.

Yet the narrative is often about the defence which isn't remarkably worse than most teams around them. But the goal threat is significantly better than most.

It's remarkably worse than Chelsea's. Which is why they are top and you aren't.

I remember United winning the league one year in no small part due to a plethora of 1-0 wins, sometimes that's all it takes.

In theory, you could win the league with a 100% record with as little as 38 goals scored.
 
It's remarkably worse than Chelsea's. Which is why they are top and you aren't.

I remember United winning the league one year in no small part due to a plethora of 1-0 wins, sometimes that's all it takes.

In theory, you could win the league with a 100% record with as little as 38 goals scored.
I agree. Chelsea are a bit ridiculous. My point was more about how Liverpool's season appears to be framed, by some, as being a defensive disaster. Whereas the most interesting and compelling element of this Liverpool side is the sheer number of goals they are scoring. That's the 'takeaway' point of discussion, surely.
 
It's remarkably worse than Chelsea's. Which is why they are top and you aren't.

I remember United winning the league one year in no small part due to a plethora of 1-0 wins, sometimes that's all it takes.

In theory, you could win the league with a 100% record with as little as 38 goals scored.
You could also win the league with 114 goals conceded as long as you score 4 each game. Both scenarios won't ever happen. It's just the general conception that we can't win the league (for the record, I don't think we will either) because we leak too many goals is a little bit kneejerk and over the top imo.

Of course if we want to overtake Chelsea we need more clean sheets because we won't score 4 every time we play, that's blatantly obvious. But over the course of 18 games, which is pretty much half a season, we scored 18 more goals than United which means one goal a game more (2,5/game vs 1,5/game). On the other end, we concede 1,16/game and you concede 1,0/game, I know which record I'd rather have.

I agree we need to improve our defensive stability though. It's frustrating because we've improved a lot since the situation two or three years ago, but individual mistakes still cost us big time.
 
I agree. Chelsea are a bit ridiculous. My point was more about how Liverpool's season appears to be framed, by some, as being a defensive disaster. Whereas the most interesting and compelling element of this Liverpool side is the sheer number of goals they are scoring. That's the 'takeaway' point of discussion, surely.
Depends on what you're discussing. That's obviously your take away and the most compelling thing for you. For me, while I obviously see how well Liverpool are playing, which is hardly compelling in my mind, I am quite compelled at the fact that despite all that good football you're 6 points off the league leaders and it appears that Chelsea will ensure all of this doesn't result in a league title this year.
 
It's remarkably worse than Chelsea's. Which is why they are top and you aren't.

I remember United winning the league one year in no small part due to a plethora of 1-0 wins, sometimes that's all it takes.

In theory, you could win the league with a 100% record with as little as 38 goals scored.
That's true, but United won the league in 12/13 with more than 40 goals conceded so it can be done.

When it comes down to it though, a solid defence will always come out on top against a strong attack in a title race. That's why Chelsea are such strong favourites (their attack is pretty good as well to be fair).
 
Depends on what you're discussing. That's obviously your take away and the most compelling thing for you. For me, while I obviously see how well Liverpool are playing, which is hardly compelling in my mind, I am quite compelled at the fact that despite all that good football you're 6 points off the league leaders and it appears that Chelsea will ensure all of this doesn't result in a league title this year.
Or you could look at as being only 6 points off a team that have won 36/36 points in 12 games. I expect Chelsea to have a blip of some type.

It's not over, which is why it's so compelling.
 
Or you could look at as being only 6 points off a team that have won 36/36 points in 12 games. I expect Chelsea to have a blip of some type.

It's not over, which is why it's so compelling.
Why would I look at it from such a hopeful and optimistic perspective. I take comfort in that nice 6 point lead rather than wallow in it.

A PL title race isnt over in the first half of the season is compelling? Mmmkay.
 
You mean like the near 75% of the Caf that posted in the pre-season poll, 'Who Will Win the PL', that United would win it ? Your post just reads like Sour Grapes because you aren't in the title race. Just WUMing not actually entering the discussion, very childish post indeed, sounds like a 13 yo in the playground.

You're almost talking as if I can speak for people answering a poll on the internet. And still not willing to take a risk, eh. Cowards.

A bad result for the dippers against City will make it a very interesting contest at OT on the 15th. Let's see if you're still occupying this thread after that.
 
At this stage Liverpool, City, Arsenal and United need Chelsea to come unstuck - 12 consecutive wins is pretty strong going, especially as wins against United, City and Spurs are in and among those results. Can't even remember the last time they conceded a goal, it was a while back.

One of two things need to happen: 1) they come tactically unstuck and some team figures out how to set up and play against them; 2) they get injuries, particularly to Hazard, Costa, or Kante or injuries that disrupt their system.

I think its more likely the teams chasing them have a blip [again], but Chelsea have to go to us and Spurs before January closes and there is a chance that those chasing them can make some ground up on them on the back of those games but then again other top of the table encounters could well just end up evening themselves out. I think we will beat them to be honest, im biased of course but our results and performances against them and City recently have been pretty good, we get up for the big games.
Conte is a very good tactician. He has shown it in the most tactical league (Serie A) and in the Premier League so far.
Regarding to your second point, they were without Costa and Kantè against Bournemouth. Look at what happened in the end.
 
You're almost talking as if I can speak for people answering a poll on the internet. And still not willing to take a risk, eh. Cowards.

A bad result for the dippers against City will make it a very interesting contest at OT on the 15th. Let's see if you're still occupying this thread after that.
What an idiotic post. WUM was bang on the bullseye. I've been here since 2009 - whatever happens this season won't change that.
 
Wow, Chelsea playing Leicester away, Spurs away, Liverpool away and Arsenal home in the next 40 days.
Only need 7 points from those games. Very doable.
 
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What an idiotic post. WUM was bang on the bullseye. I've been here since 2009 - whatever happens this season won't change that.
Won't change, eh? Bet I can think up quite a few realistic scenarios this season that would cause your post count to drop significantly. At least until August rolls around again.

Interesting how you're congratulating yourself for your own WUM call. Incidentally, I'd love to see the day where dippers call out WUMs from their own camp.
 
I think you'll cause us all sorts of problems at Anfield. It's been a while since we beat you at home as well.
Think you'll batter us personally, all our players apart from Hazard, Willian & Moses struggle immensely against high pressing. All about escaping the 1st half when you're absolutely relentless until you inevitably drop off in the 2nd half since no team can maintain that sort of intensity for 90 minutes. We concede early & it's game over.

Coutinho should be back for that one as well.

If we beat Tottenham who are similar in style then I'll be more confident about getting a result against you lot. Two of our worst performances of the season apart from the Arsenal disaster have been against Spurs/Liverpool.
 
Won't change, eh? Bet I can think up quite a few realistic scenarios this season that would cause your post count to drop significantly. At least until August rolls around again.

Interesting how you're congratulating yourself for your own WUM call. Incidentally, I'd love to see the day where dippers call out WUMs from their own camp.

I'm a WUM. :handintheair:
 
Liverpool have scored four goals seven times in the League this season.

It's still December.

Yet the narrative is often about the defence which isn't remarkably worse than most teams around them. But the goal threat is significantly better than most.

Liverpool's fluidity in attack has surprised me and credit where credit is due they are extremely difficult to contain. Going by the maxim that it's harder to work out how to get your team to score goals than to stop them, I would have to say that with one or two smart additions this Liverpool team won't just be a threat this season.

I still think Liverpool have an excellent chance of winning this, but they need to be a couple of points closer by the end of January, which makes the City game huge.
 
Liverpool's fluidity in attack has surprised me and credit where credit is due they are extremely difficult to contain. Going by the maxim that it's harder to work out how to get your team to score goals than to stop them, I would have to say that with one or two smart additions this Liverpool team won't just be a threat this season.

I still think Liverpool have an excellent chance of winning this, but they need to be a couple of points closer by the end of January, which makes the City game huge.
Agree. The City game is huge for both teams. If either win then the huge games continue in the sense that one big game leads to another as the stakes remain high. They stop being huge when they matter less. It's a sign of a good season if you're regularly playing big games in the league. When they stop mattering as much it's not a good sign.
 
Think you'll batter us personally, all our players apart from Hazard, Willian & Moses struggle immensely against high pressing. All about escaping the 1st half when you're absolutely relentless until you inevitably drop off in the 2nd half since no team can maintain that sort of intensity for 90 minutes. We concede early & it's game over.

Did you watch the City game? Also we have to hammer the crap out of Liverpool, I'm fecked if I'm watching us lose to those cnuts twice in a season. ;)
 
Difficult to say what result suits United best in the Liverpool City game. A draw?
 
A draw definitely suits us too followed by a City win. But I know Pool will easily win by 4-1.
 
In the 04/05 season where Chelsea got their point record (95!) they had 43 points at this stage. Now they have 46 so if they keep it up they can break the record.
 
I still think that Liverpool are going to implode at some stage. Their squad quality and depth is not impressive at all, and their Defence is especially very leaky. They can't even sort out their goalkeeper problems. In 2014 they had Gerrard and Suarez and they still choked, this time around I think that they will start to fizzle out around March or April. Hopefully their blip will start after they lose to us.

I am also certain that Chelsea will slip up for mostly the same reasons, but in their case, they are over-reliant on Costa and Hazard. If both of them get injured / suspended then you really struggle to see where their goals are going to come from. Yeah their formation caught a lot of teams off guard but PL managers are shrewd and will figure out a way to counter-act it soon.

The title race is still wide open. We are only 13 points off the pace and there are 57 points left to play for. Anything can happen
 
I still think that Liverpool are going to implode at some stage. Their squad quality and depth is not impressive at all, and their Defence is especially very leaky. They can't even sort out their goalkeeper problems. In 2014 they had Gerrard and Suarez and they still choked, this time around I think that they will start to fizzle out around March or April. Hopefully their blip will start after they lose to us.

I am also certain that Chelsea will slip up for mostly the same reasons, but in their case, they are over-reliant on Costa and Hazard. If both of them get injured / suspended then you really struggle to see where their goals are going to come from. Yeah their formation caught a lot of teams off guard but PL managers are shrewd and will figure out a way to counter-act it soon.

The title race is still wide open. We are only 13 points off the pace and there are 57 points left to play for. Anything can happen
Whatever you're smoking, it must be good stuff. :D
 
Liverpool are getting fitter as the weeks go by - broke our record for distance ran vs Stoke. It's showing in second halves of games too.

This could be a big factor in the second half of the season.

I still think that Liverpool are going to implode at some stage. Their squad quality and depth is not impressive at all, and their Defence is especially very leaky. They can't even sort out their goalkeeper problems. In 2014 they had Gerrard and Suarez and they still choked, this time around I think that they will start to fizzle out around March or April. Hopefully their blip will start after they lose to us.

I am also certain that Chelsea will slip up for mostly the same reasons, but in their case, they are over-reliant on Costa and Hazard. If both of them get injured / suspended then you really struggle to see where their goals are going to come from. Yeah their formation caught a lot of teams off guard but PL managers are shrewd and will figure out a way to counter-act it soon.

The title race is still wide open. We are only 13 points off the pace and there are 57 points left to play for. Anything can happen

I thought we were going to implode after Coutinho picked up his injury?
 
Liverpool are getting fitter as the weeks go by - broke our record for distance ran vs Stoke. It's showing in second halves of games too.

This could be a big factor in the second half of the season.

The question is whether you can maintain that for 20 more games.
 
The question is whether you can maintain that for 20 more games.
To be fair, after about three games it was: the question is whether you can maintain this after 20 games.

Really don't think this burn out narrative is really that significant
 
To be fair, after about three games it was: the question is whether you can maintain this after 20 games.

Really don't think this burn out narrative is really that significant

It's significant because it's been a major issue for teams that play at a fast high intensity in the past. It's especially significant because your defence is sketchy, so if you do tire towards the end you're unlikely to be able to grind out 1-0 results. Over the years we've heard the idea that a team can just outscore their rivals time after time. I genuinely can't think of a single PL team who has actually done it with a weak defence.
 
The question is whether you can maintain that for 20 more games.

Neither Liverpool nor Chelsea will be able to maintain their current form for 20 more games.

Both are due to have a 'blip' at some point. Fortunately UTD have already had their blip.
 
Neither Liverpool nor Chelsea will be able to maintain their current form for 20 more games.

Both are due to have a 'blip' at some point. Fortunately UTD have already had their blip.
How do you know that United won't have another blip though?
 
How do you know that United won't have another blip though?

Two words - Jose Mourinho.

He has finally managed to get the team to understand and implement his ideas, and the improvement has been huge. Since the defeat at Stamford Bridge we have gone 11 games undefeated. We are playing good football, and we are winning games. Our defence looks solid. We will only improve from here.

Liverpool have yet to sort out their defensive problems and I do not think that they have the ability to go out and sign a defender in January for 40 or 50 million like UTD can.
 
Two words - Jose Mourinho.

He has finally managed to get the team to understand and implement his ideas, and the improvement has been huge. Since the defeat at Stamford Bridge we have gone 11 games undefeated. We are playing good football, and we are winning games. Our defence looks solid. We will only improve from here.

Liverpool have yet to sort out their defensive problems and I do not think that they have the ability to go out and sign a defender in January for 40 or 50 million like UTD can.

Totally agreed. If the season started today, Id be very optimistic about a genuine title challenge.

I just hope that when we lose next, we all remember this.
 
Two words - Jose Mourinho.

He has finally managed to get the team to understand and implement his ideas, and the improvement has been huge. Since the defeat at Stamford Bridge we have gone 11 games undefeated. We are playing good football, and we are winning games. Our defence looks solid. We will only improve from here.

Liverpool have yet to sort out their defensive problems and I do not think that they have the ability to go out and sign a defender in January for 40 or 50 million like UTD can.
After we lost to Burnley we went 15 games unbeaten in all competitions. We're winning games, scoring goals and have played at a consistently high level all season including some of the games we haven't won. Our defence has apparently been dreadful but we've only conceded 3 more goals than United. We've also been without Coutinho for over a month but have still managed to score goals.

United have taken 12 points from the last four games and we've taken 10 during the same period of fixtures. There's no doubt that United have improved but the idea that either Chelsea or Liverpool will collapse whilst the other four sides in the top six can all flourish despite all of them having European football to contend with from February, is based on hope more than anything. As of right now there's not much evidence to suggest either of the top two will drop off.

We could lose to City then drop points at Sunderland which would worry me, but as of right now (based on what I've seen from everyone in the top six) I think I'm entitled to think that Liverpool have a very high probability of finishing in the top four.

I don't think either side is desperately in need of a new CB in January personally, so that last point is irrelevant in my opinion.
 
The question is whether you can maintain that for 20 more games.

Well we seem to be getting fitter as the season goes on, so we're following the right trajectory. Come February, we'll have quite large gaps between games too.

Klopp places huge emphasis on making us the fittest team in the league - and that includes at the end of season. In fact, he openly voiced his disappointment at our physical condition toward the end of last season, and mentioned that was a large factor in losing the Europa League final.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/sports/soccer/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-team-nutritionist.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=1&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/sports/soccer/liverpool-jurgen-klopp-team-nutritionist.html&eventName=Watching-article-click&_r=1

We picked up a fitness coach and nutritionist from Bayern in the summer; the above article goes some way to explaining some of the conditioning focused adjustments that have been made at Melwood, in the canteen at least.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/my/features/inside-jurgen-klopps-liverpool-secrets-reds-german-genius

This is also a decent little piece which mentions the intensity of our fitness training.

Much like Simeone at Athletico and Pochettino at Tottenham, Klopp is a believer in a high intensity training regime which ensures fitness over the course of a season (we sometimes train three times in a day).
 
It's significant because it's been a major issue for teams that play at a fast high intensity in the past. ........
Well that depends on the team so let's take Klopp's Dortmund. In his second title winning season they finished the second half of the BL season with 15 wins 2 draws and 0 defeats including winning the last 6 on the bounce with 9 goals in the last two matches.

Also looking at his Dortmund's BL record overall (6-5-1-1-2-2-7) there's no obvious signs of tiredness affecting their form, even in his last season there are many mitigating reasons for the decline, numerous long term injuries to key players in the first half of the season depriving his team of some of their key/most influential players.

Liverpool have made changes not only to their training regime but importantly, right from the beginning of Klopp's tenure, to their nutrition and meals are carefully planned and balanced (except for Firmino's).

Injuries could hinder progress (why do Chelsea get so few - that astounds me) but I doubt that 'tiredness' per se will be a major factor affecting Liverpool more than any other team at the top end of the PL (esp. those playing in Europe where I've posted previously on RC that United's, City's, Spurs' and Arsenal's players are likely to have played far more minutes per player than Liverpool's, come the end of the season. Chelsea have an obvious advantage here.