10 'torture' techniques blessed by Bush
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
Walling
For walling, a flexible false wall will be constructed. The individual is placed with his heels touching the wall. The interrogator pulls the individual forward and then quickly and firmly pushes the individual into the wall. It is the individual's shoulder blades that hit the wall.
During this motion, the head and neck are supported with a rolled hood or towel that provides a c-collar effect to help prevent whiplash. To further reduce the probability of injury, the individual is allowed to rebound from the flexible wall. You have orally informed us that the false wall is in part constructed to create a loud sound when the individual hits it, which will further shock or surprise the individual. In part, the idea is to create a sound that will make the impact seem far worse than it is and that will be far worse than any injury that might result from the action.
Facial hold
The facial hold is used to hold the head immobile. One open palm is placed on either side of the individual's face. The fingertips are kept well away from the individual's eyes.
Facial slap
With the facial slap or insult slap, the interrogator slaps the individual's face with fingers slightly spread. The hand makes contact with the area directly between the tip of the individual's chin and the bottom of the corresponding earlobe. The interrogator invades the individual' s personal space. The goal of the facial slap is not to inflict physical pain that is severe or lasting. Instead, the purpose of the facial slap is to induce shock, surprise, and/or humiliation.
Cramped confinement
Cramped confinement involves the placement of the individual in a confined space, the dimensions of which restrict the individual's movement. The confined space is usually dark. The duration of confinement varies based upon the size of the container. For the larger confined space, the individual can stand up or sit down; the smaller space is large enough for the subject to sit down. Confinement in the larger space can last up to eighteen hours; for the smaller space, confinement lasts for no more than two hours.
Wall standing
Wall standing is used to induce muscle fatigue. The individual stands about four to five feet from a wall, with his feet spread approximately to shoulder width. His arms are stretched out in front of him, with his fingers resting on the wall. His fingers support all of his body weight. The individual is not permitted to move or reposition his hands or feel.
Stress positions
A variety of stress positions may be used. You have informed us that these positions are not designed to produce the pain associated with contortions or twisting of the body, Rather, somewhat like walling, they are designed to produce the physical discomfort associated with muscle fatigue. Two particular stress positions are likely to be used on Zubaydah: (1) sitting on the floor with legs extended straight out in front of him with his hands raised above his head; and (2) kneeling on the floor while leaning back at a 45 degree angle. You have also orally informed us that through observing Zubaydah in captivity, you have noted that he appears to be quite flexible despite his wound.
Sleep deprivation
Sleep deprivation may be used. You have indicated that your purpose in using this technique is to reduce the individual's ability to think on his feet and, through the discomfort associated with lack of sleep to motivate him to cooperate. The effect of such sleep deprivation will generally remit after one or two nights of uninterrupted sleep.
You have informed us that your research has revealed that, in rare instances, some individuals who are already predisposed to psychological problems may experience abnormal reactions to sleep deprivation.
Even in those cases, however, reactions abate after the individual is permitted to sleep. Moreover, personnel with medical training are available to and will intervene in the unlikely event of an abnormal reaction. You have orally informed us that you would not deprive Zubaydah of sleep for more than eleven days at a time and that you have previously kept him awake for 72 hours, from which no mental or physical harm resulted.
Confinement with insects
You would like to place Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us that he appears to have a fear of insects. In particular, you would like to tell Zubaydah that you intend to place a stinging insect into the box with him, You would, however, place a harmless insect in the box. You have orally informed us that you would in fact face a harmless insect such as a caterpillar in the box with him.
Waterboarding
Finally, you would like to use a technique called the "waterboard" in this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet.
The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth. This causes an increase in carbon dioxide level in the individual's blood. This increase in the carbon dioxide level stimulates increased effort to breathe. This effort plus the cloth produces the perception of suffocation and incipient panic," i.e., the perception of drowning.
The individual does not breathe any water into his lungs. During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths. The sensation of drowning is immediately relieved by the removal of the cloth. The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout.
feck me this objective observer should, in the interest of fair play, undergo this
"interrogation" and then should be asked again for his er --- opinion oh dear, thread has been taken over by the neocon morons.
BTW, can you and Raoul please cut out using the term 'spastic'. its offensive and I'd prefer one of the mods took some kind of action towards it.
Unfortunately spastic is a favourite word on the site. Taking action against posters using the word would likely mean banning a majority posters.
Name calling is the domain of the defeated.
I'm sorry to hear you don't like being called a Spastic Sammy. Its a long standing CAF tradition of characterizing spasticity. I'll stop calling you a spastic if you in turn promise to not report me to the mods.
Walling
For walling, a flexible false wall will be constructed. The individual is placed with his heels touching the wall. The interrogator pulls the individual forward and then quickly and firmly pushes the individual into the wall. It is the individual's shoulder blades that hit the wall.
During this motion, the head and neck are supported with a rolled hood or towel that provides a c-collar effect to help prevent whiplash. To further reduce the probability of injury, the individual is allowed to rebound from the flexible wall. You have orally informed us that the false wall is in part constructed to create a loud sound when the individual hits it, which will further shock or surprise the individual. In part, the idea is to create a sound that will make the impact seem far worse than it is and that will be far worse than any injury that might result from the action.
Facial hold
The facial hold is used to hold the head immobile. One open palm is placed on either side of the individual's face. The fingertips are kept well away from the individual's eyes.
Facial slap
With the facial slap or insult slap, the interrogator slaps the individual's face with fingers slightly spread. The hand makes contact with the area directly between the tip of the individual's chin and the bottom of the corresponding earlobe. The interrogator invades the individual' s personal space. The goal of the facial slap is not to inflict physical pain that is severe or lasting. Instead, the purpose of the facial slap is to induce shock, surprise, and/or humiliation.
Cramped confinement
Cramped confinement involves the placement of the individual in a confined space, the dimensions of which restrict the individual's movement. The confined space is usually dark. The duration of confinement varies based upon the size of the container. For the larger confined space, the individual can stand up or sit down; the smaller space is large enough for the subject to sit down. Confinement in the larger space can last up to eighteen hours; for the smaller space, confinement lasts for no more than two hours.
Wall standing
Wall standing is used to induce muscle fatigue. The individual stands about four to five feet from a wall, with his feet spread approximately to shoulder width. His arms are stretched out in front of him, with his fingers resting on the wall. His fingers support all of his body weight. The individual is not permitted to move or reposition his hands or feel.
Stress positions
A variety of stress positions may be used. You have informed us that these positions are not designed to produce the pain associated with contortions or twisting of the body, Rather, somewhat like walling, they are designed to produce the physical discomfort associated with muscle fatigue. Two particular stress positions are likely to be used on Zubaydah: (1) sitting on the floor with legs extended straight out in front of him with his hands raised above his head; and (2) kneeling on the floor while leaning back at a 45 degree angle. You have also orally informed us that through observing Zubaydah in captivity, you have noted that he appears to be quite flexible despite his wound.
Sleep deprivation
Sleep deprivation may be used. You have indicated that your purpose in using this technique is to reduce the individual's ability to think on his feet and, through the discomfort associated with lack of sleep to motivate him to cooperate. The effect of such sleep deprivation will generally remit after one or two nights of uninterrupted sleep.
You have informed us that your research has revealed that, in rare instances, some individuals who are already predisposed to psychological problems may experience abnormal reactions to sleep deprivation.
Even in those cases, however, reactions abate after the individual is permitted to sleep. Moreover, personnel with medical training are available to and will intervene in the unlikely event of an abnormal reaction. You have orally informed us that you would not deprive Zubaydah of sleep for more than eleven days at a time and that you have previously kept him awake for 72 hours, from which no mental or physical harm resulted.
Confinement with insects
You would like to place Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us that he appears to have a fear of insects. In particular, you would like to tell Zubaydah that you intend to place a stinging insect into the box with him, You would, however, place a harmless insect in the box. You have orally informed us that you would in fact face a harmless insect such as a caterpillar in the box with him.
Waterboarding
Finally, you would like to use a technique called the "waterboard" in this procedure, the individual is bound securely to an inclined bench, which is approximately four feet by seven feet.
The individual's feet are generally elevated. A cloth is placed over the forehead and eyes. Water is then applied to the cloth in a controlled manner. As this is done, the cloth is lowered until it covers both the nose and mouth. Once the cloth is saturated and completely covers the mouth and nose, air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds due to the presence of the cloth. This causes an increase in carbon dioxide level in the individual's blood. This increase in the carbon dioxide level stimulates increased effort to breathe. This effort plus the cloth produces the perception of suffocation and incipient panic," i.e., the perception of drowning.
The individual does not breathe any water into his lungs. During those 20 to 40 seconds, water is continuously applied from a height of twelve to twenty-four inches. After this period, the cloth is lifted, and the individual is allowed to breathe unimpeded for three or four full breaths. The sensation of drowning is immediately relieved by the removal of the cloth. The procedure may then be repeated. The water is usually applied from a canteen cup or small watering can with a spout.
feck me this objective observer should, in the interest of fair play, undergo this
I don't see what all the fuss is about. To me torture is what they do to you in Iran - they stick a needle down the hole in your penis until it hits the bottom and then continue to press down until you break. Repeat as needed.
Obviously the president of the USA has decided it was, and is wrong to use torture tactics used by the previous administration.
What a spastic!
What a spastic!
He was right to do it because he's trying to build better relations with Muslim countries and issues like Gitmo would've stuck out like a sore thumb. I would've evaluated each method to see whether it was effective before eliminating it from the list. Some may be more effective than others, but i see why Barak had to change policies.
Why are you defending what your commander in chief is against?
Especially yourself being part of the armed services.
I'm not part of the armed forces, I'm a civilian. I was pointing out that i understand why he changed policies; he had to do it in order to pursue his broader agenda of mending relations with the Muslim world.
You´ve obviously hit the nail on the proverbial - its the fact that you don´t see what the fuss is about should have caused you some concern by now
go into any street anywhere in the US - pick any Joe/Jo Citizen - particularly the really avid Bush supporters, take them on a guided tour of Guantamamo and give them the "interrogation " treatment and I guarantee they will start screaming torture -
aint life a bitch
- I suggest you pick Cheney as the first on the tour - he deserves it
You´ve obviously hit the nail on the proverbial - its the fact that you don´t see what the fuss is about should have caused you some concern by now
go into any street anywhere in the US - pick any Joe/Jo Citizen - particularly the really avid Bush supporters, take them on a guided tour of Guantamamo and give them the "interrogation " treatment and I guarantee they will start screaming torture -
aint life a bitch
- I suggest you pick Cheney as the first on the tour - he deserves it
That's not a valid comparison. These methods are designed for terror suspects.
Innocent until proven guilty....
here's the deal with scum like you. You come on places like the Internet and act all hard trying to be a big man with all your 27,000+ posts. But in real life, you have no life. If you did, you'd at least know know how to debate with some degree of decorum.
God really does need to save America with idiots like you around.
That's a bit rich given that it was your posts that originally lowered the "decorum" of this thread, the most recent of which isn't helping your cause of appearing like a sensible poster.
thats not a valid argument for Raoul
If they were only tried in the US courts then they would enjoy the benefits of US law.
torture, interrogation, call it what you want, it's been around since the beginning and it'll be around until the end. every country/police agency/regime/gang/neighborhood bully etc, has and does, do it. as for it not working, if it didn't work it wouldn't be done. it only takes one person to break. it's been done by the good-guys and the bad-guys. it's been done in the name of war, god, freedom, fear, pride, revenge, sport, cheating spouse, lunch money, what ever. some of it was/is/will-be nessesary, most of it wasn't/isn't/won't be. as torture goes the things mentioned are pretty mild stuff compared to whats been done through history. there are worse things happening right now in apartments of the same building you're living in, maybe even in your own home. humans are mean, protective, selfish, loving, paranoid, generous, intelligent, stupid animals and that's not going to change.
we're all a bunch of hypocrites so stop arguing about it. hell, wading through this thread has been torture.
we're all a bunch of hypocrites so stop arguing about it. hell, wading through this thread has been torture.
Well seeing that I've been serving in the USAF for thirteen years I highly doubt I'd ever be suspected of committing, plotting, aiding, or abiding terrorist activities and/or regimes, and thus neither justly or unjustly accused. However, if I were taken captive but a terrorist regime or a foreign nation hellbent on destroying America and her allies, I'd wager the tortures applied to me would be tenfold what these innocent or non-innocents at Gitmo endured. Most likely I'd be killed, and possibly videoed for the world to witness on TV.
Try again.
Interesting mentality then. Because in the US we have thousands of citizens convicted of crimes they did not commit and those that end up having their sentences overturned and subsequently released do not "exact revenge" on the people and officials that put them in prison. Seems it's only in the minds of those that view the Americans as the great evil in the world. And then justified by some it seems.
but presumably these innocent citizens were not tortured whilst incarcerated and given the full benefits and protection of US laws when tried - and presumably could get redress in US courts for wrongful imprisonment
so if you stuck to imprisoning these US citizens in the US then your argument would hold water but ......and its a whopping big but
I should have commented.
"It may be understandable people undergoing such harsh treatment whilst innocent wanting revenge."
It would be against my personality to exact revenge on my worst enemies.
When a country is viewed by the majority as a bastion of justice even a slight mark is greatly highlighted.
President Obama considered the techniques used by the Bush administration as counter productive, and rightly criticised and banned the method. Surely Obama does not see the Americans evil for going against the previous administrations policies.
Why assume when criticising the method we are doing so because it's cool to be anti US?
To be fair, about 7 of the 10 techniques described in this thread seem more like college hazing rituals than 'torture'.
My entire life I have voted for the NDP in Canada and the Democratic party in the USA.
Way to jump to conclusions as usual smart guy. Queue spooky internet music.
Way to find a way to drub up Abu Ghraib photos. You have those saved to your desktop for easy access? I'm sure you could come up something better than that. I suppose for you, maybe not.
Nope, I don't need to have them on my desktop... try and google the word 'Torture' and the more photos are of American Soldiers torturing muslims, than anything else.
It's not rocket science.
Well of course it does. Becasue a primarily left leaning media refuses to report on things like this...
or this
or this
Are you posting from the Coto Bar & Grill, again?
Because your post is either from a person with an underdeveloped brain or someone that has had a half dozen whiskeys… which one is it?
We have fully established that this conversation is about a country that boasts being the bastion of judicial justice. The subject is about crimes against humanity by the use of torture. In short, this is about the United States of America’s wrong doing.
Maybe you can start your own thread about the awful things done to the Americans? I’ll be the first to post about how it is nasty and justified to go after these filthy rats.
Let me help you in understanding the difference between the two topics… Western civilization seems to live within laws that promote freedom and personal prosperity. You and I live within laws that protect us from such horrific circumstances. In the middle-east, shit aint like that… most of us have seen evidence of that. If you are going to be fair, take some time and consider what it is to be a middle-eastern person. Would you put up with the shit sandwich that we’ve shoved up their backsides for generations. (Example: selling weapons to Iran, then selling weapons to Iraq, then selling weapons to Iran, then selling weapons to Iraq… repeat in hopes they blow the shit out each other to leave us easier access to their oil, literally to the point that our politicians use phrases like, ;’We are protection American interests overseas.’ Meaning their oil) How would you feel if you lived under these conditions?
By no means do I justify the photos you posted, and that’s why nobody is calling for their to be war crimes against the USA on the policy of ‘Clear, Stabilize, and Rebuild’… Do you see the crowd of people standing on that hill in your photo… most likely they are all dead from collateral-damage. That is what that policy is all about.
The family is calling for me… gotta run for now. I hope I helped you understanding this better. Oh, and I hope you had a good time Tea-Bagging this past week.
Because your post is either from a person with an underdeveloped brain or someone that has had a half dozen whiskeys… which one is it?
We have fully established that this conversation is about a country that boasts being the bastion of judicial justice. The subject is about crimes against humanity by the use of torture. In short, this is about the United States of America’s wrong doing.
Maybe you can start your own thread about the awful things done to the Americans? I’ll be the first to post about how it is nasty and justified to go after these filthy rats.
Let me help you in understanding the difference between the two topics… Western civilization seems to live within laws that promote freedom and personal prosperity. You and I live within laws that protect us from such horrific circumstances. In the middle-east, shit aint like that… most of us have seen evidence of that. If you are going to be fair, take some time and consider what it is to be a middle-eastern person. Would you put up with the shit sandwich that we’ve shoved up their backsides for generations. (Example: selling weapons to Iran, then selling weapons to Iraq, then selling weapons to Iran, then selling weapons to Iraq… repeat in hopes they blow the shit out each other to leave us easier access to their oil, literally to the point that our politicians use phrases like, ;’We are protection American interests overseas.’ Meaning their oil) How would you feel if you lived under these conditions?
By no means do I justify the photos you posted, and that’s why nobody is calling for their to be war crimes against the USA on the policy of ‘Clear, Stabilize, and Rebuild’… Do you see the crowd of people standing on that hill in your photo… most likely they are all dead from collateral-damage. That is what that policy is all about.
The family is calling for me… gotta run for now. I hope I helped you understanding this better. Oh, and I hope you had a good time Tea-Bagging this past week.
If I ever need YOU to educate me please treat me like the guy in the crane photo. I fully understand what the threads about but like you so often forget to do, there needs to be a frame of reference. And the last time I checked, the US hardly ever gets treated as the "bastion of judicial justice" even by it's own citizens. There is constant discussion of the inequalities in our system. Again however, without being able to contextualize a discussion even the most soft society can look hard line.
And yes these whiskies are wonderful, thank you. (OK actually it's a slightly young Argentinian Malbec)
And yes these whiskies are wonderful, thank you. (OK actually it's a slightly young Argentinian Malbec)
Raoul, lets call a truce shall we. Its obvious you have views are so ingrained that you are unable to comprehend any other points of view. That's clear in the way you answer questions and from your observations. And thats fine. I'm not surprised, as this whole sordid affair did happen and millions in America voted Bush back into power (as did the British public with out very own modern day protector of freedom Tony Blair). In doing so, both populations effectively endorsed what had gone on in Iraq. And so, I have the same blood on my hands and seeping into my conscious as you do.
My government colluded with yours and so effectively 'blessed' what happened in Gitmo, examples of which are now being bought to life with stories like the ones at the top of this thread. Unlike you however, that knowledge makes me feel very very uncomfortable. It brings unrest and shame to my conscious because it is by not engaging in these sorts of acts that I thought put the Great in front of Britain. I've stopped calling my country Great ever since the UK government went into this war without the backing of the UN. It was a criminal action. And then we find out our armies are committing the very sorts of feckless criminality that we are supposedly meant to be superior too.
The British and US armies talk constantly about concepts like the Geneva convention and yet here we are, in the 21st century using the basest of military techniques. What happened to the notion that these 2 countries were supposed to represent all the amazing things mankind had learnt since it existed. Its a tragedy of the highest possible magnitude.
Anyway, thats what this thread was about. You are free to have your own opinion. You are free to justify the use of torture. But in my opinion, in doing so, you do great injustice to all the great great people that created the USA and the idea's and values that they stood for and often died for.
so according to Raoul is right to torture anyone "suspected" of being a terrorist and that to without any evidence ?
If you go through the list of methods cited above, i don't have any philosophical problems with many of them being used on terror suspects, as i don't consider them torture. You have to remember that these aren't ordinary citizens fished off the streets of metropolitan cities while they walk to work. Most of the people who are detained are at the least up to no good and some are hardcore terrorists, who as we've seen have promptly resumed their professions after having been released.
yup pardner yes sirree
but its not torture its legitimate interrogation
Another important contribution from you.