Not a single element of any of Milgram's well-known experiments had anything to do with the behavior of prisoners. So you're talking out of your hind parts again, etc. You know, a wind-up is supposed to make the other person look foolish.
10 'torture' techniques blessed by Bush
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
I don't know how you got lost along the way. We're talking about psychological vs physical torture that's it. milgrim's experiments showed you don't need to use force to get someone to do what you want. This knowledge was applied in most armies. Psychology is the study of human BEHAVIOUR ffs.
I swear i've written that atleast 4 times.
Reality is you're either an idiot or suffer from dementia. I'd venture you're no older than 20 and have taken 1 psych class in your entire life.
those countries dont go on harping about being the "beacon of light/civilization" in the world.
So we're crying over detainees that would blow themselves up to kill Americans, Brits, etc.?
That's what boggles my mind about all these protestors in this nation and around the world. Do they not realize the people they're whining about would kill them if the opportunity presented itself?
That's what boggles my mind about all these protestors in this nation and around the world. Do they not realize the people they're whining about would kill them if the opportunity presented itself?
You've never even read his book. you have no fecking clue what you're on about.
they were not found guilty.
And yet these "innocents" have resumed their previous terrorist activities.
Just as well or the US would have nowhere to rendition its suspects to.
I am surprised you have the nerve to show your face on this thread given how keen you have been to deny US involvement in torture up to now.
Here is a copy of Milgram's Obedience to Authority, courtesy of Google Books. There is not a single sentence in this book to support your contention that the purpose of Milgram's experiments was "the study of human responses to captivity and its behavioral effects on both authorities and inmates in prison". Any poster who can prove me wrong wins $5.
One sentence.
What about the suffering of the poor detainees ? Don't you care about them, or is the purpose of this thread simply to poke a stick at the U.S. ?
As usual you've completely missed the point.
You keep harping on about the stanford experiment because you have zero argument. FYI the stanford experiment was based on milgrams theory therefore in essence it is an extension of his work as were a dozen other similar studies.
The only thing you know about milgrim is that you watched 6 degrees of seperation on tv. you know even less about psych.
I've underlined all the hard to understand parts for you. I would underline everything but then you'd be even more confused.
Not all them ffs, most of them are innocent, and if even one innocent is tortured and imprisoned, then the system doesn't work and should be scrapped.
What kind of animals support imprisonment and torture without trial? That's what boggled my mind.
Do you legitimately care ?
Never thought I'd say this, but I miss Rooney_gr8. At least when he would argue feckwittedly for pages on end, he'd throw in a youtube video or two.
yeah?! I don't want the fake security that comes from torturing others. Not in my name. I also empathize with other people naturally.
I take it from your tone you don't
I don't regard the techniques used by US agents to be torture which is why I referred to those actions as relatively trivial when compared to the real torture taking place all around the world.
Nice try though.
yeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
yeah?! I don't want the fake security that comes from torturing others. Not in my name. I also empathize with other people naturally.
I take it from your tone you don't
How do you know whether its fake or not ? Were you present during the questioning of detainees when they provided information regarding ongoing plots ?
The reason i asked the original question is because most people who argue your position do so out of disdain for the Bush administration rather than due to a legitimate concern for human suffering. That's the inherent double standard of threads like these.
What he is saying is that the amount of outcry over the mistreatment of prisoners at Guantanamo is disproportionate to the amount of actual suffering there - given that mistreatment and torture elsewhere is a thousand times worse, yet goes unmentioned by all of us. Hence his belief that the real explanation for the level of outcry has more to do with who did something wrong, rather than concern for those who have been wronged.yeah?! I don't want the fake security that comes from torturing others. Not in my name. I also empathize with other people naturally.
I take it from your tone you don't
And he has a point.
You can't say I didn't warn you. This guy is unentertainingly thick.
Even on the internet we think you're a joke. Were they being mean to you in the footbal forums
Just because the torture elsewhere is worse, it doesn't mean ours is legitimate. Some things we can't influence, but here at home, there are many we can. Let Saudis do whatever they want for now, we need to clean in front of own doorstep.
In my experience the people on the right of the political spectrum care far more about fellow human beings than those on the left do.
And if I'm being totally honest I can't remember meeting anyone from the ''left'' who wasn't a selfish, conniving, vindictive piece of work.
And if I'm being totally honest I can't remember meeting anyone from the ''left'' who wasn't a selfish, conniving, vindictive piece of work.
I worded that wrong. I would rather die then have 20 others' (most of them innocent) lives damaged/ended so that I can live. Like I said, not in my name. I'm not going to let terrorism change my life.
Torture opens up doors.
To put it simply, if we do it to them, they will do it to us.
To put it simply, if we do it to them, they will do it to us.
Again, never having been present you're simply assuming the worst. Some of the methodologies used would be hard pressed to be defined as torture when contrasted to real torture. Once you figure out that there are bad people out there plotting to do things well worse than 9/11, then you will understand the need to get information out of terrorist suspects to thwart future attacks. The Government's primary responsibility is to protect its citizens, and in this instance, interrogation is an effective tool to get important information out of terror suspects.
I'm not disagreeing with you here. The point was about the disproportionate global response to Guantanamo, which cannot be explained by concern for the victims, despite the fact that that is what is claimed by many vocal opponents of the Bush Administration. Dislike of President Bush, or occasionally of the US in general, accounts for the outcry over Gitmo.
If the world were only concerned with abuse of prisoners, it would be more vocal about places in which abuse was a hundred times worse.
We'll never know exactly what went on in the many interrogations that used abusive techniques, but I have strong doubts that these methods were useful. I'm well aware of how many bad people there are out there who genuinely do wish us harm, but torture isn't the answer.
Moral issues aside, the evidence suggests that it's not an effective technique for getting information.
I think you'll find 'you' have blown a lot more of them to high-tech kingdom come than 'they' have decapitated of yours.Actually they decapitate us irrespective of what we do.
Actually they decapitate us irrespective of what we do.
So do certain man killing animals Raoul.
Do we start copying their actions?
That's a dead end argument. The US doesn't target innocent civilians. Terrorists kill anyone they can get their hands on.
Actually they decapitate us irrespective of what we do.
''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'' Edmund Burke
Although ''good men'' is stretching it for the one's prepared to cowardly stand by and let evil prevail.
''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.'' Edmund Burke
Although ''good men'' is stretching it for the one's prepared to cowardly stand by and let evil prevail.
I've yet to see any compelling arguments in this thread. The main point of interrogation is to obtain information from to detainees in order to thwart future attacks. The Government's primary responsibility is to protect its citizens.
Let's be honest...
The actions of the Bush administration have made US one of the most disliked nations on earth. The policies administered to eradicate, or lessen terrorism has increased many folds.
Go figure!
The actions of the Bush administration have made US one of the most disliked nations on earth. The policies administered to eradicate, or lessen terrorism has increased many folds.
Go figure!
You do rack up a fair amount of collateral though.