10 most valuable players on the planet. List updated.

[Rojofiam]

Not really, it is a case of watching the same the majority of football fans do and agree on, and not about having a different opinion than most every single time. I'm sure you're up for debating that Bednarek is a better CB than Saliba as well.

Yes, there are many ways that could happen. I use my eyes - I watch both football players play football, and Vinicius offers more than Yamal does, both in dribbling and output. Vinicius has also been brilliant in Champions League, while Yamal has 2 assists and one goal in 12 CL games. Vinicius is the difference maker for Real Madrid, game after game after game. In big games too, not just the league. Other than those beautiful inward crosses, tell me one quality Yamal is better at than Vinicius. And don't just make up things and say dribbling just because you always need to have a different opinion.

How does he not have an argument for that? Why do you, who clearly don't watch Real Madrid, feel you are a better judge of that? What does he lack? What does he miss in his game to not have an argument to be the world's best player?

Bellingham has been poor for England, poor start to the new season, and hasn't won as much as Vinicius. How could this possibly be difficult to comprehend? He had a good season in La Liga, didn't do much in CL, so how is he a better football player? I don't understand your logic here. Is your definition of the best football players the ones who are most naturally talented, or performances? Because it seems like you're talking about having a vast skillset, which is not what defines who the best players are.

I defended Saliba against Konaté, Varane and Dias too I think on here, when the general consensus was very different about him than what it is today. But I might be remembering wrong tbh. Still I've always put him as a top 2/3 CB in the world in the last 24 months, even when redcafe used to rate Varane above him. VVD at number 1 too (even all time), when according to redcafe he's not even top 5 in Prem history.

Regarding Yamal, let's just say I strongly disagree and move on from the topic.

Regarding Bellingham, your argument is trophies? Do you think Vinícius would've won more at Dortmund? Or Bellingham is not as talented because he arrived at Real Madrid later? I don't think he's been poor at all. I think a lot of the stuff he does and provides are more difficult to catch and observe, than what Vinícius does in front of the opposition goal, obviously. It's somewhat of a pointless comparison anyway. I only wanted to mention wingers, forwards, and number 10s that I would put above Vini, and I'd consider Bellingham an #8 anyways. I just listed him because he's been playing in a way more advanced role for both club and country in the last 12+ months.

Sorry but overall I just can't take this discussion seriously. Yes, I disagree with a lot of stuff and I believe the "majority of football fans" have the worst opinions imaginable and they also flip flop on a weekly basis basically. I've also said some incredibly inaccurate stuff before, obviously, and I have reconsidered and changed my opinion on several things, but sometimes the stuff I read makes me think people don't even know what they are watching sometimes. And the counter-argument is often just something that sounds good but not true and/or relevant.

And your other arguments when comparing two players, other than the "you're the biggest contrarian I've seen", seem to be often just trophies and numbers?

 

[Bobski]

Seems a bit of an underwhelming group compared to other generations over the lats 30 years to my mind.

 

[Rojofiam]

Vinicius is better actually but Yamal is only 17.

I think he's already better.

 

[Grand Vizier]

I defended Saliba against Konaté, Varane and Dias too I think on here, when the general consensus was very different about him than what it is today. But I might be remembering wrong tbh. Still I've always put him as a top 2/3 CB in the world in the last 24 months, even when redcafe used to rate Varane above him. VVD at number 1 too (even all time), when according to redcafe he's not even top 5 in Prem history.

Regarding Yamal, let's just say I strongly disagree and move on from the topic.

Regarding Bellingham, your argument is trophies? Do you think Vinícius would've won more at Dortmund? Or Bellingham is not as talented because he arrived at Real Madrid later? I don't think he's been poor at all. I think a lot of the stuff he does and provides are more difficult to catch and observe, than what Vinícius does in front of the opposition goal, obviously. It's somewhat of a pointless comparison anyway. I only wanted to mention wingers, forwards, and number 10s that I would put above Vini, and I'd consider Bellingham an #8 anyways. I just listed him because he's been playing in a way more advanced role for both club and country in the last 12+ months.

Sorry but overall I just can't take this discussion seriously. Yes, I disagree with a lot of stuff and I believe the "majority of football fans" have the worst opinions imaginable and they also flip flop on a weekly basis basically. I've also said some incredibly inaccurate stuff before, obviously, and I have reconsidered and changed my opinion on several things, but sometimes the stuff I read makes me think people don't even know what they are watching sometimes. And the counter-argument is often just something that sounds good but not true and/or relevant.

And your other arguments when comparing two players, other than the "you're the biggest contrarian I've seen", seem to be often just trophies and numbers?

It's quite straight forward in my eyes.

Vinicius is the reason Real Madrid wins so much, and he was the biggest reason they won the Champions League. Bellingham was, if anything, more a hindrance to that goal. He didn't do anything. Vini has been the difference maker in that team for quite some time now and at times carries that team by himself. So it's quite obvious to people who watch Real that Vini is better than Bellingham. You could ask the Real Madrid fans on here who watch every single game, but something tells me that's not going to do anything.

 

[Redfrog]

I think he's already better.

No, Vinicius is so powerful, direct and can make the right decisions in the box, which is a rare quality.
Maybe Yamal is better on pure talent but he has to confirm it on the biggest stages which is not yet the case.

 

[Rojofiam]

Seems a bit of an underwhelming group compared to other generations over the lats 30 years to my mind.

Haaland might well go down as the greatest goalscorer ever by the time he hangs up his boots.

Mbappé is arguably the best French player ever, entering his peak years.

Bellingham could go down as one of the best ever midfielders eventually, and surpass the best #8s from his own nation like Gerrard, Scholes, etc. because he has the natural talent to do it. And he's already produced an all-timer debut season for Real Madrid at 20.

Yamal is a multiple Ballon d'Or level talent who's one of the best players already at 17, and I don't remember any prospect like him other than Mbappé and Neymar from the last 10 years.

Maybe it seems like an underwhelming group to you, and I suspect many others, because they're all in the early stages of their careers or halfway done at best, in the case of maybe Mbappé? Whereas with the greats of the past, their whole careers are known to you.

 

[Rojofiam]

Vinicius influenced big games in the CL with two final goals in a team that doesn’t even look to dominate meaning he was tasked with making the difference. What did Saka do at that level? They’re both more or less equal when it comes to weekly league consistency but Vinicius’s influence at the highest level gives him a clear edge.

I meant his value should be similar to Saka's. I think Vini is better, but there isn't a €60m difference for me.

I'd also put money on Saka eventually matching him, rather than Vinícius making the gap bigger within the next ~2 years.

 

[Rojofiam]

Bellingham was, if anything, more a hindrance to that goal. He didn't do anything.

Okay...

 

[Olmer]

Holy shit, the takes in this thread

Vinicius might be the best player on the planet, but I don't think he's "widely recognised" as such. Maybe the problem is that people are used to best player having absolutely elite production in terns of goals and assists because they got used to it in Messi and Ronaldo era?

I doubt that Haaland will ever be recognized as the best goalscorer ever because people don't only look at numbers but also at how the goals are scored, and Haaland (at least at City) seems to be very limited in how he scores. Best goalscorer ever has to have both numbers and versatility of scoring. Has Haaland even learned how to head the ball into the net yet or does he still embarras himself regularly while trying to?

Yamal to me is just another one of "generational talents" that pop up in huge numbers every year I give him 20% chance to reach the heights that people here expect him to.
Two years ago Ansu Fati was supposed to be the chosen one that Yamal is supposed to be today

 

[Champ]

Holy shit, the takes in this thread

Vinicius might be the best player on the planet, but I don't think he's "widely recognised" as such. Maybe the problem is that people are used to best player having absolutely elite production in terns of goals and assists because they got used to it in Messi and Ronaldo era?

I doubt that Haaland will ever be recognized as the best goalscorer ever because people don't only look at numbers but also at how the goals are scored, and Haaland (at least at City) seems to be very limited in how he scores. Best goalscorer ever has to have both numbers and versatility of scoring. Has Haaland even learned how to head the ball into the net yet or does he still embarras himself regularly while trying to?

Yamal to me is just another one of "generational talents" that pop up in huge numbers every year I give him 20% chance to reach the heights that people here expect him to.
Two years ago Ansu Fati was supposed to be the chosen one that Yamal is supposed to be today

 

[HTG]

Seems a bit of an underwhelming group compared to other generations over the lats 30 years to my mind.

I think you’re just getting older.

 

[Fugeeface]

Leverkusen's CEO Fernando Carro let slip in an interview that his price tag is €150M and other sources claim that noth Madrid, City, Arsenal and Liverpool are willing to pay that amount. And based on performances alone, he should be significantly more expensive than Bellingham who was not even close to the level Wirtz' displayed last season. There are rumours that Wirtz favors another contract extension and a move after the WC, though.

The valuation list is an effort community of Germany's biggest football forum by the way. Not saying that this makes it any better as I often find the results ridiculous but it is not as if somebody made up those numbers the provoke reactions.

What he let slip doesn't really matter in case Wirtz wants to leave next season. With Alonso most likely to leave I can see an Ajax effect on the team.

I don't know about Wirtz performance levels last season, Bellingham had a truly great debut season though.
You might want to check your bias here. Your vision might be corrected once Wirtz plays for someone else. Listening to Bayer fans it sounds like Wirtz is the best that ever was.

The valuations are absurd and the intentions might have been different, the result is the same. Putting prices on players is silly, it isn't objective.
Getting a list right after Ronaldo and Messi left the elite stage is obviously not possible, so arguments among forum experts will ensue for no good reason. Personally I don't care that much, none of them will come to us in the foreseeable future anyway.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Where is Frenkie?

 

[Acrobat7]

I don't know about Wirtz performance levels last season, Bellingham had a truly great debut season though.
You might want to check your bias here. Your vision might be corrected once Wirtz plays for someone else. Listening to Bayer fans it sounds like Wirtz is the best that ever was.

How are you judging him if you admit that you haven’t seen him play?

 

[Acrobat7]

Where is Frenkie?

Unfortunately getting treatment somewhere.

 

[Rojofiam]

Holy shit, the takes in this thread

Vinicius might be the best player on the planet, but I don't think he's "widely recognised" as such. Maybe the problem is that people are used to best player having absolutely elite production in terns of goals and assists because they got used to it in Messi and Ronaldo era?

I doubt that Haaland will ever be recognized as the best goalscorer ever because people don't only look at numbers but also at how the goals are scored, and Haaland (at least at City) seems to be very limited in how he scores. Best goalscorer ever has to have both numbers and versatility of scoring. Has Haaland even learned how to head the ball into the net yet or does he still embarras himself regularly while trying to?

Yamal to me is just another one of "generational talents" that pop up in huge numbers every year I give him 20% chance to reach the heights that people here expect him to.
Two years ago Ansu Fati was supposed to be the chosen one that Yamal is supposed to be today

You're ignorant about Yamal and only have surface level insight on both players, if you don't think he's different to Fati (who was an extremely talented player too, but injuries ruined him, but still, Yamal is clearly superior anyway)

 

[giorno]

@carvajal , @giorno
Do you believe Vinicius at best is your third best player behind Mbappe and Bellingham .

He's better than Bellingham, he's currently better than Mbappé, he's worse than the 2022 version of Mbappé

 

[giorno]

I have a bit of a blind spot with Valverde. He's one of those players that every top side tends to have in their team but I don't think he's a special player in isolation or one you'd go around paying €130m for.

You need to watch Real Madrid more. Rodri aside he's probably the best midfielder in the world

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Why are you laughing. He is right.

 

[Zehner]

What he let slip doesn't really matter in case Wirtz wants to leave next season. With Alonso most likely to leave I can see an Ajax effect on the team.

I don't know about Wirtz performance levels last season, Bellingham had a truly great debut season though.
You might want to check your bias here. Your vision might be corrected once Wirtz plays for someone else. Listening to Bayer fans it sounds like Wirtz is the best that ever was.

The valuations are absurd and the intentions might have been different, the result is the same. Putting prices on players is silly, it isn't objective.
Getting a list right after Ronaldo and Messi left the elite stage is obviously not possible, so arguments among forum experts will ensue for no good reason. Personally I don't care that much, none of them will come to us in the foreseeable future anyway.

He was the standout player in a team that finished the season with 90 points. The last team to achieve this had Guardiola as a coach and Robben, Ribery, Kroos, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Müller, Neuer and Boateng on the team sheet. And let's be honest, Bellingham had as much hype as possible but Wirtz 23/24 was at least two classes above Bellingham's 22/23.

And I'm not one to hype up the players of their own club. I always said that Sancho was a much bigger talent than Havertz, I predicted that Diaby and Bailey will be flops, I was super happy when we sold Son to Tottenham because I believed he was average. But Wirtz is different. The boy has one of the highest football IQs I've seen coupled with the passing on Özil's level and dribbling not far off Musiala's. I'd gladly let him leave for free if that meant another two seasons with us since I most likely won't see a player with such qualoty in our shirt again.

 

[ArtetasHair]

Surprised Saliba isn't there

 

[Gene Loblaw]

Interesting list. Not saying his value is actually higher but I doubt arsenal would take 140 € for Saka if a club offered it

 

[Pscholes18]

Wheres Bruno on that list? He's created more scoring chances than all of those players combined for their entire career. I have proof!

 

[carvajal]

@carvajal , @giorno
Do you believe Vinicius at best is your third best player behind Mbappe and Bellingham .

Vini is the best and will surely win the ballon d'dor. He has scored in two Champions League finals and I think he is the leader of the team.
I would have to see if Mbappe can perform that role without Vini on the field but for the moment I see him behind. I love Bellingham but I also see him behind, although because of his style/position it is difficult to overtake the mega scorers

 

[Olmer]

You're ignorant about Yamal and only have surface level insight on both players, if you don't think he's different to Fati (who was an extremely talented player too, but injuries ruined him, but still, Yamal is clearly superior anyway)

Well, I did not say Yamal and Fati are the same player, but that they're in the same category to me - players who can still absolutely fail and I wouldn't be surprised.

What impresses me about Yamal is that he can produce a moment of magic even when he's not having a great/dominant performance. This is why I'm actually taking him more seriously that most other young starlets. You know, 20% chance is actually a lot in my opinion! I give less to most.

What I don't like is that I don't see him applying constant pressure on his side of the pitch the way I would expect from generational winger. I also don't see him link up with consistency with his teammates. And when I say "consistency", I don't mean consistency over a season - obviously you can't expect that sort of consistency from 17 years old. I mean "consistency" within a single game.
More often than not Yamal will be somewhat invisible (compared to what I'm considered to be a top winger) in terms of applying pressure and linking with teammates, and then he will produce one moment of magic, like a curler shot resulting in goal, or a brilliant assist. This sort of bothers me because once those moments stop happening, he will have to rely on his "neutral game" so to speak, and I'm not convinced about his neutral game.
He's sort of like a striker in the sense that he either scores and then has a great match, or doesn't score and then sort of doesn't contribute. I don't know how it looks like in Spain NT but that's the impression I got watching him for Barcelona this season. You can't say that he "runs the game" for Barca and you also can't say that he destroys his opponents in 1v1 like Vini does. He's about moments and that's concerning to me.
You know who's also about moments? Players having a purple-patch or players new to the league, who weren't figured out yet by other coahces and players.

 

[SonOfFergie]

fecking Madrid have 4 players in that list, and they aren't even petrol owned

Just to comment on this list. In a way it shows the plight of generational talents that this is the list of highest priced players. It is all well and cozy playing for Arsenal and City but Saka and especially Foden showed they are dog shit on international stage. For me Foden is a typical Guardiola system player and he will look ordinary when Guardiola is gone or when he takes his elitist attitude and monkey face to a different team. On the other hand Cole Palmer looks the real deal and will soon be on the list the way he is going.

 

[Rojofiam]

Just to comment on this list. In a way it shows the plight of generational talents that this is the list of highest priced players. It is all well and cozy playing for Arsenal and City but Saka and especially Foden showed they are dog shit on international stage. For me Foden is a typical Guardiola system player and he will look ordinary when Guardiola is gone or when he takes his elitist attitude and monkey face to a different team. On the other hand Cole Palmer looks the real deal and will soon be on the list the way he is going.

I cannot believe what I'm readying.

Saka was England's best player at Euro 2024, and one of their best players at the 2022 World Cup + 2021 Euro as well. Especially this summer, he was running England's attack and was absolutely clutch for them.

 

[SonOfFergie]

I cannot believe what I'm readying.

Saka was England's best player at Euro 2024, and one of their best players at the 2022 World Cup + 2021 Euro as well. Especially this summer, he was running England's attack and was absolutely clutch for them.

The same Saka who didn't have a single successful take on or dribble against Slovenia in Euro 2024? Same Saka who had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in EURO 2024? And lets not start with Foden who was 0/0 in 7 games.

 

[Rojofiam]

The same Saka who didn't have a single successful take on or dribble against Slovenia in Euro 2024? Same Saka who had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in EURO 2024? And lets not start with Foden who was 0/0 in 7 games.

I agree on Foden, no worries. Saka however was the opposite

 

[Hammondo]

I agree on Foden, no worries. Saka however was the opposite

Saka was better but he wasn't good.

 

[Champ]

Why are you laughing. He is right.

So people look at RVN and think he was a limited goalscorer because he barely scored outside the box, or do they look at him as a predator in the box and one of the best poachers ever?
Haaland will go down as one of the greatest goalscorers ever, there's no denying that. Embarrassing to think otherwise.

 

[Fugeeface]

How are you judging him if you admit that you haven’t seen him play?

You read articles about football and footballers? You consume information about football, yes? I assume more than I do.

Nowhere is the praise as high as from Bayer(+n) fans. It is understandable, they had their best season, emotions can get a bit wild after that. Nothings wrong with it, as a Bayern fan you know that your lot tends to do the same until those players play for someone else.

We currently have quite a few names with a certain weight in world football - Mbappe, Haaland, Vicinius, Bellingham - and Wirtz is not part of that level yet. This doesn't mean that he is worse than any on that list, I don't know, but he is not spoken of as highly as the others. I hope you can admit at least that. Let's see if his season will be as great as you say it was last year.

Something makes you uneasy when I talk about Wirtz. It is odd, but do not despair. I'll be at the Frankfurt game on Saturday and most likely at their home game against Stuttgart. I will observe only Wirtz and ignore the others. If he isn't half as brilliant as you claim he is, you won't hear the end of it.

Maybe it is the unhealthy hyperbole around anyone - even Vicinius, Mbappe, Haaland etc. - that needs to cool off a bit. It is getting rather dramatic.

Case in point - Yamal. Still a kid, he tears his ACL next week and his career might take a Falcao level of trajectory after his knee injury. Falcao could have been the best striker of his generation, what he did pre-injury was unreal. Post injury he played for us, which says it all.

We had an era of Messi and Ronaldo and from the players I've seen no one is even remotely close to where those two have been. They're young and their careers could go anywhere. Or nowhere.

The entire discussion reminds me of the time Michael Jordan retired for good. Who is the next Jordan? A good example from that time was Grant Hill - lauded to be "the next one", but nothing came off it.

As if fans, media or even football need a new Messi/Ronaldo. A new duo, a new "rivalry". You see this in how Mbappe and Haaland are sold as a rather poor replacement of the previously mentioned duo. It's silly.

He was the standout player in a team that finished the season with 90 points. The last team to achieve this had Guardiola as a coach and Robben, Ribery, Kroos, Thiago, Schweinsteiger, Lahm, Müller, Neuer and Boateng on the team sheet. And let's be honest, Bellingham had as much hype as possible but Wirtz 23/24 was at least two classes above Bellingham's 22/23.

I was referring to Bellingham's season in Madrid, I can't say anything about his time at Dortmund. I saw a couple of games, he wasn't hat great in those games and I didn't get the hype. That's why I was surprised how well he adjusted and improved in Spain.

And I'm not one to hype up the players of their own club. I always said that Sancho was a much bigger talent than Havertz, I predicted that Diaby and Bailey will be flops, I was super happy when we sold Son to Tottenham because I believed he was average. But Wirtz is different. The boy has one of the highest football IQs I've seen coupled with the passing on Özil's level and dribbling not far off Musiala's. I'd gladly let him leave for free if that meant another two seasons with us since I most likely won't see a player with such qualoty in our shirt again.

Well, I'll be watching the game on Saturday. I can't see the team staying together, which is a sad thing. Smaller teams tend to get raided after a successful season, I'll be very impressed if Bayer can avoid a Ajax-firesale in the summer. It would be nice, the way you humiliated Bayern last season was extraordinary.

 

[Zehner]

You read articles about football and footballers? You consume information about football, yes? I assume more than I do.

Nowhere is the praise as high as from Bayer(+n) fans. It is understandable, they had their best season, emotions can get a bit wild after that. Nothings wrong with it, as a Bayern fan you know that your lot tends to do the same until those players play for someone else.

We currently have quite a few names with a certain weight in world football - Mbappe, Haaland, Vicinius, Bellingham - and Wirtz is not part of that level yet. This doesn't mean that he is worse than any on that list, I don't know, but he is not spoken of as highly as the others. I hope you can admit at least that. Let's see if his season will be as great as you say it was last year.

Something makes you uneasy when I talk about Wirtz. It is odd, but do not despair. I'll be at the Frankfurt game on Saturday and most likely at their home game against Stuttgart. I will observe only Wirtz and ignore the others. If he isn't half as brilliant as you claim he is, you won't hear the end of it.

Maybe it is the unhealthy hyperbole around anyone - even Vicinius, Mbappe, Haaland etc. - that needs to cool off a bit. It is getting rather dramatic.

Case in point - Yamal. Still a kid, he tears his ACL next week and his career might take a Falcao level of trajectory after his knee injury. Falcao could have been the best striker of his generation, what he did pre-injury was unreal. Post injury he played for us, which says it all.

We had an era of Messi and Ronaldo and from the players I've seen no one is even remotely close to where those two have been. They're young and their careers could go anywhere. Or nowhere.

The entire discussion reminds me of the time Michael Jordan retired for good. Who is the next Jordan? A good example from that time was Grant Hill - lauded to be "the next one", but nothing came off it.

As if fans, media or even football need a new Messi/Ronaldo. A new duo, a new "rivalry". You see this in how Mbappe and Haaland are sold as a rather poor replacement of the previously mentioned duo. It's silly.



I was referring to Bellingham's season in Madrid, I can't say anything about his time at Dortmund. I saw a couple of games, he wasn't hat great in those games and I didn't get the hype. That's why I was surprised how well he adjusted and improved in Spain.



Well, I'll be watching the game on Saturday. I can't see the team staying together, which is a sad thing. Smaller teams tend to get raided after a successful season, I'll be very impressed if Bayer can avoid a Ajax-firesale in the summer. It would be nice, the way you humiliated Bayern last season was extraordinary.

Even if you compare Bellingham's 23/24 with Wirtz' 23/24, the main argument for Bellingham is that he did it for Madrid. Leaving the fairly subjective eye test aside, Wirtz outperforms Bellingham in all important playmaking stats except for finishing and not even by small margins. Assists, key passes, shot creating actions, goal creating actions, successful take-ons, carries, progressive carries, carries into penalty area, total touches, progressive passes, progressive passing distance, progressive passes received, passes into final third, passes into penalty area.

I agree with you on Haaland vs Mbappe. IMO, the Messi vs. Ronaldo debate started because both were the two best players in the world and it was quite unusual back then that the best were also the ones to score the most. But over time, the comparison got more and more reduced to superificial goal record comparisons. Now Haaland and Mbappe as probably the two most prolific goal scorers of their generation have 'inherited' that discussion without ever having had the overall game to make it feel earned. I think Neymar and Hazard would have been much worthier 'heirs' but we all know how their careers ultimately turned out. Anyway, I'd take Wirtz over Haaland any day and I think right now we have many other, very exciting talents coming through, especially Yamal of course.

Regarding Leverkusen: We'll definitely be going down the Ajax route So far, we've held on to our players for much longer than expected and one main reason for that is our sudden unexpected ascend to title challengers. But let's be real, the stars aligned for us with Xabi Alonso and unreproducably brillant transfers like Wirtz, Xhaka and Grimaldo. Without that, most of our top talents would already been gone and it is very unlikely that we can repeat something similar anytime soon which is why I enjoy the ride while it lasts

 

[Hammondo]

I meant his value should be similar to Saka's. I think Vini is better, but there isn't a €60m difference for me.

I'd also put money on Saka eventually matching him, rather than Vinícius making the gap bigger within the next ~2 years.

Saka has never shown that level.

 

[Acrobat7]

You read articles about football and footballers? You consume information about football, yes? I assume more than I do.

Nowhere is the praise as high as from Bayer(+n) fans. It is understandable, they had their best season, emotions can get a bit wild after that. Nothings wrong with it, as a Bayern fan you know that your lot tends to do the same until those players play for someone else.

We currently have quite a few names with a certain weight in world football - Mbappe, Haaland, Vicinius, Bellingham - and Wirtz is not part of that level yet. This doesn't mean that he is worse than any on that list, I don't know, but he is not spoken of as highly as the others. I hope you can admit at least that. Let's see if his season will be as great as you say it was last year.

Something makes you uneasy when I talk about Wirtz. It is odd, but do not despair. I'll be at the Frankfurt game on Saturday and most likely at their home game against Stuttgart. I will observe only Wirtz and ignore the others. If he isn't half as brilliant as you claim he is, you won't hear the end of it.

Maybe it is the unhealthy hyperbole around anyone - even Vicinius, Mbappe, Haaland etc. - that needs to cool off a bit. It is getting rather dramatic.

Case in point - Yamal. Still a kid, he tears his ACL next week and his career might take a Falcao level of trajectory after his knee injury. Falcao could have been the best striker of his generation, what he did pre-injury was unreal. Post injury he played for us, which says it all.

We had an era of Messi and Ronaldo and from the players I've seen no one is even remotely close to where those two have been. They're young and their careers could go anywhere. Or nowhere.

The entire discussion reminds me of the time Michael Jordan retired for good. Who is the next Jordan? A good example from that time was Grant Hill - lauded to be "the next one", but nothing came off it.

As if fans, media or even football need a new Messi/Ronaldo. A new duo, a new "rivalry". You see this in how Mbappe and Haaland are sold as a rather poor replacement of the previously mentioned duo. It's silly.



I was referring to Bellingham's season in Madrid, I can't say anything about his time at Dortmund. I saw a couple of games, he wasn't hat great in those games and I didn't get the hype. That's why I was surprised how well he adjusted and improved in Spain.



Well, I'll be watching the game on Saturday. I can't see the team staying together, which is a sad thing. Smaller teams tend to get raided after a successful season, I'll be very impressed if Bayer can avoid a Ajax-firesale in the summer. It would be nice, the way you humiliated Bayern last season was extraordinary.

I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you though. Or sorry that happened.

 

[Fugeeface]

I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you though. Or sorry that happened.

You did read it but you had nothing to counter what I said. All good, it's a Bayern thing, Ihr seid Ihr.

 

[troylocker]

The same Saka who didn't have a single successful take on or dribble against Slovenia in Euro 2024? Same Saka who had 1 goal and 1 assist in 7 games in EURO 2024? And lets not start with Foden who was 0/0 in 7 games.

None on the English attackers were "allowed" to be good in the EUROs. It was impossible with the football Southgate wanted to play.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

So people look at RVN and think he was a limited goalscorer because he barely scored outside the box, or do they look at him as a predator in the box and one of the best poachers ever?
Haaland will go down as one of the greatest goalscorers ever, there's no denying that. Embarrassing to think otherwise.

They see him as both. He was at United for 5 years and only won 1 PL title. Once SAF moved away from RVN as the main threat, United started to look much better and to greater success.

RVN was an amazing scorer but he was flawed.

 

[troylocker]

Not really, it is a case of watching the same the majority of football fans do and agree on, and not about having a different opinion than most every single time. I'm sure you're up for debating that Bednarek is a better CB than Saliba as well.

Yes, there are many ways that could happen. I use my eyes - I watch both football players play football, and Vinicius offers more than Yamal does, both in dribbling and output. Vinicius has also been brilliant in Champions League, while Yamal has 2 assists and one goal in 12 CL games. Vinicius is the difference maker for Real Madrid, game after game after game. In big games too, not just the league. Other than those beautiful inward crosses, tell me one quality Yamal is better at than Vinicius. And don't just make up things and say dribbling just because you always need to have a different opinion.

How does he not have an argument for that? Why do you, who clearly don't watch Real Madrid, feel you are a better judge of that? What does he lack? What does he miss in his game to not have an argument to be the world's best player?

Bellingham has been poor for England, poor start to the new season, and hasn't won as much as Vinicius. How could this possibly be difficult to comprehend? He had a good season in La Liga, didn't do much in CL, so how is he a better football player? I don't understand your logic here. Is your definition of the best football players the ones who are most naturally talented, or performances? Because it seems like you're talking about having a vast skillset, which is not what defines who the best players are.

I just had to comment on this one.
I think it's early days for Yamal still, but this hype for Vini is a bit funny.

Dribbling:
Out of all the players of the list (including the Yeti) who do you think have the lowest successrate on his dribbling?
Vinicius Jr. - 36,9% (65 out of 176 attempt last season in LaLiga)
Yamal - 43,8% (70 out of 160 attempts)
Musiala top the list with 56,5%
Vini tops the list of attempts per 90 though...

Possession lost because of miscontrol per 90. Who tops the list?
Vini.

Passing:
Who has the lowest completed pass ratio:
Vini 72,5%
Take Haaland out of the list and who do you think has the fewest key passes, progressive passes and successfull passes into penalty area:
Vini is lowest in every category.
He had 2 completed crosses into the penalty area in LaLiga last season.

Shall we go through the defensive numbers (take away Haaland and Mbappe)?:
Worst in every category.

The arguement that Vini has won so much compared to the others with his 3 LaLigas and 2 CLs:
First LaLiga title: He played 1355 minutes and contributed 2 goals and 3 assists
2nd LaLiga title: He was good, but was playing 2nd fiddle to Benz. Played 2700 minutes and scored 17 + assisted 13
3rd LaLiga title: Played 1875 minutes, started 3, was subbed in 3 times and stayed on the bench twice in the last 8 matches despite being fit. Scored 15 and assisted 6. In other words far from the key player in the team.
1 CL title: He was good, scored in the final, but was playing 2nd fiddle to Benz.
2nd CL title: Again he was good and scored in the final.

He is fast and he has x-factor, but he is far from the best in the world.

 

[SonOfFergie]

None on the English attackers were "allowed" to be good in the EUROs. It was impossible with the football Southgate wanted to play.

Only partially agreed. At least Foden had multiple situations with time and space and position to cause some damage. But he was just shite. Not to mention his petulance, demanding the play goes through him, arms throwing etc.