“Attack wins you games, defence wins you titles”

I will happily take 10 dull 1-0s after the chaos since last summer. Even 2 weeks ago, I never thought I'd see us this calm at the back for a long time.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
When I look at the narrow wins in our last two games, I honestly think we'd have drew or perhaps lost those kinds of games last season.

Since the Brentford game, we've looked a lot more solid as a unit. It helps that we've had a settled back four, who seem to have all gelled together but we seem to defending a lot better together as a team, too.

Our attack still leaves a lot to be desired but I still think we have enough quality up top to nick a goal or two.
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I disagree that we've been solid as a unit, the results we got were really pure luck. Southampton and Pool really should've (and would've) gotten a draw from those games on a different day.

xG tells part of the story in all these games.

United 1.7 - 1.5 Pool.
Southampton 1.6 - 1.1 United.

I know the usual pitfalls - xG within a single game is not as useful because if the opposition got the equalizer, they wouldn't have gone forward as much, we would've pushed on for a a winner yada yada but the fact of the matter is that both really should've been draws.

They were eerily reminiscent of Rangnick's comments on controlling games and subsequently winning his initial games in-charge by one goal without any control at all.

The only game we controlled well so far is against Leicester and we still managed to give away a decent chance at the end (0.6xg to 1.1xg).

Not to say they're not trying - it's a lot better attitude wise from the players but we still lack defensive solidity despite recent results. The press / counter-press are still ineffective. Build up from the back is nonexistent. No need to sweep these issues under the rug because we got a couple of results.
 
FujiVice said:
I will happily take 10 dull 1-0s after the chaos since last summer. Even 2 weeks ago, I never thought I'd see us this calm at the back for a long time.
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That would be 1992 AC milan levels of defense.
 
Chelsea fans would kill for this level of defensive stability again
 
Teja said:
I disagree that we've been solid as a unit, the results we got were really pure luck. Southampton and Pool really should've (and would've) gotten a draw from those games on a different day.

xG tells part of the story in all these games.

United 1.7 - 1.5 Pool.
Southampton 1.6 - 1.1 United.

I know the usual pitfalls - xG within a single game is not as useful because if the opposition got the equalizer, they wouldn't have gone forward as much, we would've pushed on for a a winner yada yada but the fact of the matter is that both really should've been draws.

They were eerily reminiscent of Rangnick's comments on controlling games and subsequently winning his initial games in-charge by one goal without any control at all.

The only game we controlled well so far is against Leicester and we still managed to give away a decent chance at the end (0.6xg to 1.1xg).

Not to say they're not trying - it's a lot better attitude wise from the players but we still lack defensive solidity despite recent results. The press / counter-press are still ineffective. Build up from the back is nonexistent. No need to sweep these issues under the rug because we got a couple of results.
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I agree with that. I also remembered the early Rangnick days when I watched the last games. It is early days though so the start of a good trend is something to be happy about but, as we learned the lessons with Ole and RR, we shouldn't just stop demanding stuff just because of a few favourable results. With the summer we had, expectation levels will be adjusted - for now it feels like the same team with a few better players. At least, against Leicester there was one pretty good passage of play, if that is where the way is heading, I'm all onboard.

Still find it a bit irritating, that our attackers are somewhat disconnected from the defenders. It isn't as much of a problem, when we stay reserved, but when we push up, this will lead to issues. I have a big feeling, that it won't take too long until opponents will start to sit back against us again.
 
We still lose too much possession from ddg kick outs and our forward line isn't creating enough chances. We might well lose against arsenal today.
 
We have no strikers.

You don't win titles without winning games and you don't win most games without strikers.
 
Midfield wins you titles.

That barca side under pep doesn't dominate football without xavi, basquets and iniesta, hell barca had yaya toure in defence against us in the champions league final but couldn't test him because we couldn't touch their midfield.

Same goes for madrid in the past 5 years, Kroos, modric and casemiro have been the common denominator in their great period of ucl wins.

Even united would not have had the success we had in the late 90's early 2000's without becks, giggs, keane and Scholes. Same with the 2008 ucl win when we had Hargreaves, carrick and Scholes.

Man city have been winning titles without a striker but had a brilliant midfield.
 
NZT-One said:
I agree with that. I also remembered the early Rangnick days when I watched the last games. It is early days though so the start of a good trend is something to be happy about but, as we learned the lessons with Ole and RR, we shouldn't just stop demanding stuff just because of a few favourable results. With the summer we had, expectation levels will be adjusted - for now it feels like the same team with a few better players. At least, against Leicester there was one pretty good passage of play, if that is where the way is heading, I'm all onboard.

Still find it a bit irritating, that our attackers are somewhat disconnected from the defenders. It isn't as much of a problem, when we stay reserved, but when we push up, this will lead to issues. I have a big feeling, that it won't take too long until opponents will start to sit back against us again.
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We are still quite obviously miles away from being a really good side. It's been so bad that simply seeing us get some of the basics right is causing certain fans to become giddy and reset expectations into something that is likely to lead to misery - although the cafe being what it is maybe that's what some people want.

This is a 2 year plan. 3 wins doesn't change that. We shouldn't accelerate our plans. Getting this team into some kind of recognisable framework front to back would be an excellent outcome this season, and then we can build from there, but at the moment all we are seeing are a few bricks - not a building.
 
I'll take the bricks. Especially since is being laid on good foundation, the defence. It's the best our back 4 has looked in a long time with a proper complementary CB pairing.

All the roles are important, but if you are not leaking goals then you are not losing games. It sets up the rest of the team to go and try to win it.
 
3 of our starting back 4 are out as well as the (for feck sake!) DM bought 2 weeks ago to give us solidity!
 
In literal terms this is untrue. Attack correlates with winning titles more than defence does.

That said, you still have to have a base level competence in defence and we're well off in both regards so far this season anyway.

But then we also have 12 players out injured. So..... *shrugs*
 
Is Varane mount/amaraet due a return? Would it be worth us playing three at the back when he is back and fit.

width could come from dalot and Sergio. Casemiro and and Bruno midfield eriksen further forward in 10. The extra centre back can step up at times and stop us being over ran in midfield and would free Bruno a little to do more damage in attacking areas also?

would maybe tighten us up and also allow two up top to offer attacking threats??

ps just mean in the immediate future. I believe with awb shaw varane amaraet mainio fit we might look tougher to beat and have more legs in midfield
 
Still think the midfield is the biggest issue, pep beat us in ucl final with yaya toure in Central defence but we couldn't test him because we couldn't get near their midfield.

Our midfield can't control games or protect the defence either and you wonder why we are poor at both ends.
 
I think the title is a bit false tbh, it implies you need to sort your defence out before anything else.

There's no point having a good defence if you don't have a good attack - as it says it's the attack that wins you games. We've had a pretty crap attack ever since SAF left. Not a single good RW in that time (Greenwood aside).

Look at Liverpool - they established Mane Salah and Firmino first, and after that got Alisson and Van Djik. We spend countless amounts of money on a CB every year and sign crap up front.
 
It's very difficult to make a scientific case for either point, but my gut-feeling has always been that attackers are more important than defenders. But you need balance! You need to be good at both things and have a good midfield too.

Team A:
Defence - 8/10
Midfield - 8/10
Attack - 10/10

Team B:
Defence - 10/10
Midfield - 8/10
Attack - 8/10

I'd pick Team A every time.
 
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