These threads always backfire.
‘Elite’ hipster CBs vs Maguire & Lindelöf
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
Sell them both
What is a 'hipster cb'?
Yeah you're wrong, we conceded twice in open play to crosses across our goal.
We had poor finishing too but finishing wasnt taken into account when you criticized the other players in this thread
Yeah cos making this thread is the reason we lost. grow up.
Like with many of our players, we overrate them considerably after good games and when better players have done badly. Of course ridicule will come after bad performances like today, but there’s no room for that either. Truth is somewhere in between, they are good players but not great. Maguire was so expensive that we kind of have to stick with him, and I like his ability on defensive set-pieces... but we really need to get the «next» great, obvious, rapid defender. Someone who bosses Maguire around and sees the chess moves, like Rio, we all know Lindelof isn’t that player.
Not my job to find him, but a pairing of Maguire/Lindelof will not win a single trophy.
Not my job to find him, but a pairing of Maguire/Lindelof will not win a single trophy.
You do this kind of thing a lot by the way, mate!
I just don't see the point in these threads? Apart from being completely wrong and making you guys look a bit stupid (which you aren't as you are actually decent posters)
We are desperate for a world class centre back. We have about six of them, but none are top notch. Clear a few out and sign a commanding player there. And Maguire is never a Manchester United captain.
Who do you think is available that summer which fits that commanding top notch criteria
There's people who are desperate to want to believe that Lindelof is top class whereas he really isn't. He's fine as second choice CB but for a starter he just doesn't defend enough. I wouldn't say CB is as important as some other areas though. Our record isn't too shabby. But yeah, eventually we need an upgrade.
He's a good squad player, but if the club wants more he needs to be moved out of the team. At times he can step up and take responsibility, but those games are few and far between. He generally likes to stand off and not deal with developing situations.
I really had high hope for Tuanzebe to step up this season, but he's proved to be made of glass thus far. Transfer window is going to be difficult for Ole as we still look 4/5 players away from a really good team and I'd very much we have the funds nor ability to address all areas.
No point in expecting us to address all ar as. Neither us not Chelsea will make such a huge jump next season. We have to improve well what we do opt to improve now. Rest will be done in future windows.
Came here to post this. I think it’s a successful cb on the continent
If you are rated highly and aren't in the premier league you are given the hipster label. Hipster managers, Hipster clubs, Hister CB's etc.
Then how come Maguire was better than VVD statistically this year???
How is Varane a hipster CB? Guy has won multiple champions leagues and dominated a World Cup Final.
It’s like saying Maldini was a hipster left back because he had the hair.
Maguire I really like as a player, not so much Lindelof but because Varane had a shocker against City doesn’t change his elite level in pretty much most other games ever.
It’s like saying Maldini was a hipster left back because he had the hair.
Maguire I really like as a player, not so much Lindelof but because Varane had a shocker against City doesn’t change his elite level in pretty much most other games ever.
Answer is he wasnt
This is the 2nd year in a row where VVD has been rated highest by whoscored's formula. He was 3rd the season before, 2nd the season before that while at Southampton and 1st the season before that also at Southampton. So in every season in English football VVD has been in the top 3 highest rated CBs statistically
Mustafi is the 6th best by that model.Answer is he wasnt
This is the 2nd year in a row where VVD has been rated highest by whoscored's formula. He was 3rd the season before, 2nd the season before that while at Southampton and 1st the season before that also at Southampton. So in every season in English football VVD has been in the top 3 highest rated CBs statistically
In terms of workrate/productive defensive actions yes. I never said frequency of mistakes werent also extremely important. He's very error prone which ruins his high defensive actions, same with Jones.
I
I think VVD is the best for sure. I just dont trust stats 100% for a reason: you need to watch thr players regularly to be sure when and against who they are performing. Because some players will produce excellent stats in moments when games are already decided or against weak opposition. This is easy to see when is a striker who never scores against top sides, but its hard when is a cb.
Quite scary we'll go into another season with Lindelof starting for us, a real damaging legacy of Jose's reign still lingering on.
Its seems to me that United need two hipster CBs. But I do think that Maguire is still playing injured.
These defenders, all of them currently at the club are not good enough and all have one major deficiency.
In the truest sense of it, they are the hipsters.
These defenders, all of them currently at the club are not good enough and all have one major deficiency.
In the truest sense of it, they are the hipsters.
You obviously need both, unless theres a stat for everything. For example whoscored doesnt have "mistakes" so like I said above, it only really tells you about how many defensive actions and the workrate of the players. But if they had a stat that was "How many defensive mistakes that led to shots on goal" and they had a definition that you agreed with, then it would cover most things. Volume of actions - mistakes leading to chances, because the more willing you are to be tested defensively the more likely you are to make a mistake. So the best would be someone who is a highly active defender who makes few mistakes. VVD would be this type of player because he does a lot in the air and clearing the ball, while also not messing up very often. Then theres players like Lindelof who do a very low amount and then still make mistakes. And sure, not as many as some players like Jones or Mustafi but once again, the more you engage the more likely you are to get it wrong at some point. But someone has to do it. You can't leave it to everyone else, otherwise they'll just make the mistake you would have made and as a CB you really should be better at defending than those from other positions around you. The 2nd goal is a perfect example, Lindelof leaving his job to someone else because he doesnt seem to actually enjoy defending
So it turned out hipsters were better than what we have. And not only at CB but at FB also.
Not being sarcastic, but I assume that's why we have a scouting department. Our defence didn't have a great deal to do last night, but we looked vulnerable every time Sevilla went forward. The defending for the second goal was dreadful; no wonder Bruno went mad at them. A Lindelof/Maguire partnership won't win us trophies. I'm still shocked we paid 80 million for Maguire, but that's in the past. There has to be someone playing in Europe's leagues who is an upgrade on what we currently have.
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Well seeing as we are very likely to get priced out for Upamecano due to new contract then think we should get Badiashile
He isn't. But if he was it would just show the statistics were wrong. Anyone with eyes can see that VVD is world class and Maguire is just pretty good.
Answer is he wasnt
This is the 2nd year in a row where VVD has been rated highest by whoscored's formula. He was 3rd the season before, 2nd the season before that while at Southampton and 1st the season before that also at Southampton. So in every season in English football VVD has been in the top 3 highest rated CBs statistically
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50
Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost
https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274
The only stat where VVD is ahead of Maguire is clearances and arial battles won. And for those who say there isn't much between Maguire and Lindeloff, this tells an entirely different picture...
The problem with comparing defensive stats is that they do not give you the right answer. VVD is clearly miles ahead of any defender but also, he is the best protected CB in Europe too.
They have a shield of Fabinho, Hendo and Gini which really helps them defensively.
Stats wise, Maguire has had a fantastic season, almost on par with VVD stat wise.
| Maguire | VVD | |
| Tackle won % | 62.2 | 52.2 |
| Clearances | 157 | 162 |
| Blocks | 22 | 15 |
| Interceptions | 72 | 40 |
| Duels won | 240 | 239 |
| Duel won % | 65 | 74 |
| Ariel duels % | 71.3 | 76.1 |
| Recoveries | 237 | 220 |
Who cares about stats? They are a useful data point but misleading without context.
Look at the broad narratives. Anyone can see that Maguire turns and recovers like an oil tanker trapped in the English Channel, but is great apart from that. Lindeloff often gets caught out of position and also could be quicker but is great apart from that. VVD plays in a much better team so he has better protection but he appears to be the perfect CB in that context. He was also really good at Southampton (though not as good as he appears now.)
He is also European Footballer of the Year, an award ceremony that Harry and Viktor won't be troubling for a while yet.
Lindelof getting all the hate when Maguire is just as bad or worse... Maguire watching every cross go past him last night was just as infuriating as Lindelof. And stop it with the Maguire stats, that doesn't show how anyone faster than Mata beats him.
You "don't care about stats"? Or you "don't care about stats when it doesn't fit your agenda?"
These stats aren't comparing Maguire to VVD from 2018/19 when he earned his way to the award ceremony. It was comparing them this year. This year where many have liked to scapegoat Maguire despite him being our best defender (by far). Has he made mistakes? Yes he has. Has he been one of the best defenders in England and helped to lower our goals against by 20 goals? Also a yes...
Maguire is wayyyyy better than Lindelof. Only someone with an agenda against him will say otherwise. Are you Mark Goldbridge in disguise? I'm still trying to figure out why people are blaming him for the first goal. Do they expect him to slide out to try and block the cross and risk an own goal? That goal was on AWB and Williams. And the second goal is on a combo of Williams for allowing the cross, and Lindeloff and AWB for not marking the only player who was standing in between them. To blame Maguire of any of those is nothing less than people having an agenda against him for some odd reason. Bottom line is he was one of the best defenders in the league this season and helped bring our goals against down by 20.
------------------Tckl----Blk---Int--Clr---HdClr----Rec---DW---DL---50/50---ABW---ABL
Maguire-------37------6-----72---157---94-------237--240--128---8---------176-----71
Virgil VD-----23------5------40--162----83------220----239--81----3---------191------60
Lindeloff----29------1------26---122---58------215----135--78----4----------96-------50
Legend: Tckl=Tackles, Blk=Blocks, Int=Interceptions, Clr=Clearances, HdClr=Headed Clearances, Rec=Recoveries, DW=Duals Won, DL=Duals Lost, ABW=Arial Battles Won, ABL=Arial Battles Lost
https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5140/Virgil-van-Dijk/stats?co=1&se=274
https://www.premierleague.com/players/5066/Victor-Lindelöf/stats?co=1&se=274