Ángel Di María | Transferred to PSG

Status
Not open for further replies.
Morpheus 7 said:
He's a world class player on his day but he is a fecking cnut. I'm glad he's moved on now, he's wanted to move since he joined. He was flirting with PSG since he came. He never wanted to play for us, nobody will convince me otherwise. We were simply a make do option for him when PSG couldn't pay the fee last year because of FFP. We gave him the number 7 jersey, broke our transfer record and paid big money on wages. An awful professional who disrespected the club to an almost embarrassing level. People feeling what could have been need to wake up. Angel didn't want to play for United and never was a team player with us. He was kept out by Ashley Young, a player of much lesser ability but had much more hunger and fight. We need people who want to come here, show character, mental strength and who plays for his team mates. Di Maria had none of these things. He would come on and give the ball away and disrupt our shape. I hope the next person who comes wants to be here. We deserved better and hopefully soon we can restore some pride into that number 7 jersey, it's been a while since we had a true number 7.
Click to expand...
Name calling aside, this pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. You can dance around it all you want, but he never wanted to play for us and took the first opportunity to jump ship. We were linked with him before he joined Madrid, so chances are he spurned us once before. He's more than talented enough to express himself while still working within the parameters of Van Gaal's "philosophy" - he simply showed no real desire to do so. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he, his agent and PSG had this mapped out since last summer. I've always really liked him as a player, and certainly don't wish him any ill will, but with his frame of mind we're better off without him. Spend the money wisely and move on.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm being deadly serious here. What sort of "test" could have been done to predict that Di Maria would hate living in Manchester and start frantically looking for an exit strategy after a few games on the bench? How do you predict that sort of shit?
Click to expand...
There is no test really but you have to say that Fergie's ultra conservatism when it comes to transfer of foreign players led directly to us having relatively very little problems on that front compared to other teams. I think what is happening with Di Maria is extremely normal in the modern game where a player throws a hissy fit and acts as he pleases. We as United fans are not very much used to it though because of Fergie. His policy meant that we were a bit narrow in our transfers and focused mostly on "safe" or British players who shared the same values and principles but on the other hand we had an unparalleled air of unity and determination for the cause.

I am not saying we should go back to that policy as that would not be practical but what is happening now should not come as a surprise if we go down that route of "quality is all that matters".
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm being deadly serious here. What sort of "test" could have been done to predict that Di Maria would hate living in Manchester and start frantically looking for an exit strategy after a few games on the bench? How do you predict that sort of shit?
Click to expand...

The idea of an actual "test" isn't something I've ever suggested.

The notion is that Di Maria never wanted to be in Manchester. Or possibly that he's so weak mentally that being told (by LVG) that he wouldn't be an automatic starter, made him crumble. That was the premise I commented on. If the above is true, I maintain that it isn't unreasonable to expect the club to be aware of these factors, given that Di Maria is a record signing (presumably a very important player for us).

LVG isn't an easy man to work for - he sets standards, he doesn't pamper his players. He knows this (of course) - and presumably he stays clear of players who aren't likely to deal well with his system or his management style. He should be especially careful when said players cost sixty million.

On the face of it, it looks as though Di Maria is precisely the sort of player he should not have purchased (or whose purchase he should not have endorsed, depending on how you look at it). That's worthy of criticism - if the premises are true.

However, I stated plainly that if there is something else going on here - some kind of force majeure, as I put it - then neither Woody nor LVG can be blamed. Because sometimes shit happens, and sometimes things simply don't work out, for whatever reason.

Clear enough?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The idea of an actual "test" isn't something I've ever suggested.

The notion is that Di Maria never wanted to be in Manchester. Or possibly that he's so weak mentally that being told (by LVG) that he wouldn't be an automatic starter, made him crumble. That was the premise I commented on. If the above is true, I maintain that it isn't unreasonable to expect the club to be aware of these factors, given that Di Maria is a record signing (presumably a very important player for us).

LVG isn't an easy man to work for - he sets standards, he doesn't pamper his players. He knows this (of course) - and presumably he stays clear of players who aren't likely to deal well with his system or his management style. He should be especially careful when said players cost sixty million.

On the face of it, it looks as though Di Maria is precisely the sort of player he should not have purchased (or whose purchase he should not have endorsed, depending on how you look at it). That's worthy of criticism - if the premises are true.

However, I stated plainly that if there is something else going on here - some kind of force majeure, as I put it - then neither Woody nor LVG can be blamed. Because sometimes shit happens, and sometimes things simply don't work out, for whatever reason.

Clear enough?
Click to expand...
This pretty much sums it up. We have to remember on the other hand that LvG is not a British coach. He is most likely not used to being that closely involved with transfers as we are used to from our manager. Di Maria's signings always smelled of Woodward's trying to do a Real Madrid; aka: acting like a teenage fan. Not to say that LvG is not to blame of course, at least partially.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
The idea of an actual "test" isn't something I've ever suggested.

The notion is that Di Maria never wanted to be in Manchester. Or possibly that he's so weak mentally that being told (by LVG) that he wouldn't be an automatic starter, made him crumble. That was the premise I commented on. If the above is true, I maintain that it isn't unreasonable to expect the club to be aware of these factors, given that Di Maria is a record signing (presumably a very important player for us).

LVG isn't an easy man to work for - he sets standards, he doesn't pamper his players. He knows this (of course) - and presumably he stays clear of players who aren't likely to deal well with his system or his management style. He should be especially careful when said players cost sixty million.

On the face of it, it looks as though Di Maria is precisely the sort of player he should not have purchased (or whose purchase he should not have endorsed, depending on how you look at it). That's worthy of criticism - if the premises are true.

However, I stated plainly that if there is something else going on here - some kind of force majeure, as I put it - then neither Woody nor LVG can be blamed. Because sometimes shit happens, and sometimes things simply don't work out, for whatever reason.

Clear enough?
Click to expand...

You're being a little defensive? I get your point. My point is that making accurate predictions about the mentality of any new employee is a mug's game. You can have a hunch that someone is made of the right stuff but that's really as far as it goes. And that's what seems to be the issue here. Mentality. If they'd failed to judge his talent as a footballer then fair enough. That's their job. Blaming them for failing to predict the flaws in his character is a bit much IMHO.
 
Theonas said:
Di Maria's signings always smelled of Woodward's trying to do a Real Madrid; aka: acting like a teenage fan.
Click to expand...

I admit the thought crossed my mind at the time. But I convinced myself that it surely couldn't be the case - because if LVG simply nodded and said "yeah, he's not bad, go for it", that would be pretty scandalous all things said and done.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm being deadly serious here. What sort of "test" could have been done to predict that Di Maria would hate living in Manchester and start frantically looking for an exit strategy after a few games on the bench? How do you predict that sort of shit?
Click to expand...

NFL teams do extensive background checks on potential new players. For the new recruits out of college, interviews are also done to gauge a candidate's potential for success or going off the rails. I think.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm being deadly serious here. What sort of "test" could have been done to predict that Di Maria would hate living in Manchester and start frantically looking for an exit strategy after a few games on the bench? How do you predict that sort of shit?
Click to expand...

The trick cyclists would have you believe that the MMPI could give an employer a good idea of how a person will fit in. Some employers administer this test and the candidate is expected to comply.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're being a little defensive? I get your point. My point is that making accurate predictions about the mentality of any new employee is a mug's game. You can have a hunch that someone is made of the right stuff but that's really as far as it goes. And that's what seems to be the issue here. Mentality. If they'd failed to judge his talent as a footballer then fair enough. That's their job. Blaming them for failing to predict the flaws in his character is a bit much IMHO.
Click to expand...

Defensive? Moi? Yeah, perhaps a little. The whole affair is something that bothers me. It goes right to the core of what sort of club we are at the moment.

I take your point - and yes, assessing the footballing abilities of prospective purchases is obviously their main task. But mentality/personality/general suitability is extremely important too. I hate to drag Fergie into this again, but he was always very concerned with the latter aspect - and it seemed to work pretty well for him.

With LVG the point seems especially valid, given his ways.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I admit the thought crossed my mind at the time. But I convinced myself that it surely couldn't be the case - because if LVG simply nodded and said "yeah, he's not bad, go for it", that would be pretty scandalous all things said and done.
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Non British coaches are not used to doing meticulous work about transfer targets or their personalities. They are used to being consulted and that's it. I can imagine a scenario where Van Gaal simply thought that Di Maria is a quality player and that he would add something to the team which is not a crazy thought. A British manager like Fergie though would weigh in the cost and whether it's worth the risk or not because he's more hands on and always been. I hope that makes sense haha
 
Theonas said:
I think it's a bit more complicated than that. Non British coaches are not used to doing meticulous work about transfer targets or their personalities. They are used to being consulted and that's it. I can imagine a scenario where Van Gaal simply thought that Di Maria is a quality player and that he would add something to the team which is not a crazy thought. A British manager like Fergie though would weigh in the cost and whether it's worth the risk or not because he's more hands on and always been. I hope that makes sense haha
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense - but it's the very thing I keep hinting at here, you might say: We are a British club. Run in a certain way. We haven't restructured to the point where LVG can act like a continental manager. So, if he does act like a continental manager, then that's a pretty fundamental problem - which needs sorting.

Hopefully we're more sorted now than we were last summer.
 
I dont care about him, just if we sell him we better sell him for minimum 55-60 mill to PSG, if they bought Luiz for 50mill, di maria is far more talented and worth much more

Still dont understand how we sold Nani and RVP for peanuts, we overpay for players, and then sell our players for nothing
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It makes perfect sense - but it's the very thing I keep hinting at here, you might say: We are a British club. Run in a certain way. We haven't restructured to the point where LVG can act like a continental manager. So, if he does act like a continental manager, then that's a pretty fundamental problem - which needs sorting.

Hopefully we're more sorted now than we were last summer.
Click to expand...
But it meant a large portion of our fans blamed Fergie for conservatism when it comes to transfers. Our fans were simply not happy with our business and complained we are not ambitious enough. Don't get me wrong, I was very happy with the way we conducted our business, yes it meant we missed out on the occasional Hazard but in return we had an incredible unity and determination. All our players were so well drilled and gave everything for the shirt but the club's following wanted us to be more like the European clubs. It's unfortunate but that was the reality after Fergie and even before him I would say.
 
roykeane19 said:
I dont care about him, just if we sell him we better sell him for minimum 55-60 mill to PSG, if they bought Luiz for 50mill, di maria is far more talented and worth much more

Still dont understand how we sold Nani and RVP for peanuts, we overpay for players, and then sell our players for nothing
Click to expand...
In large part, it's due to their very high wages. It's not easy to sell players who earn so much, relative to their performance. Moreover, Van Persie not only had only one year left on his contract, but also had two seasons of consistent injuries and declining production. Nani was loaned out last season, such was his value from Van Gaal's perspective. The real value for United in these sorts of deals is simply getting the players, and their wages, off the books.
 
Theonas said:
Our fans were simply not happy with our business and complained we are not ambitious enough.
Click to expand...

They certainly did...

This isn't the thread for that sort of discussion, so I won't comment on whether they were right or wrong. But what is perfectly clear is that we can't run some sort of half-arsed operation. If we want a continental model - so be it. But then Woody has to employ a director of football - or something similar.

We can't have a manager who is supposed to work British style (being in charge of transfers down to having talks with the players' wives) as per the model we still use, but who actually works continental style more than anything.
 
Meh - Di Maria was found out, he's not a 60m player at all, never was. He's vulnerable to pressure, which he hardly had at RM. Be aggressive with him and he crumbles....and in the Premier League, it's all about aggression and being at a player like a chihuahua on an old man's leg. He couldn't hack that and I reckon after a couple of months here realised that. Hence his rather insipid performances for the rest of the season. It's better we get this deal done quickly and move on.

Just hope nobody burgles him in Paris.
 
Has he not gone yet? Open this thread constantly hoping to see a statement from PSG announcing they've signed him.

Wonder if Woody managed to get them to pay up front? No spreading the payments out over how many years - just take him and give us the money.
 
Let's be honest, he has as much physical presence on the pitch now as he did when he was wearing the shirt.
 
If this was a player at one of our rivals I'd have been pissing myself. Just ship him out and move on. It's not like we'll miss him based on last years performances. Unfortunately he'll be great in the French league and we'll be left looking like we've cocked up. A lose - lose situation.
 
Perhaps he actually has gone missing. Decided the whole football lark isn't for him. Sometime next year he'll be spotted, Bruce Wayne style, sitting at a cafe table nippin' a drink.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
They certainly did...

This isn't the thread for that sort of discussion, so I won't comment on whether they were right or wrong. But what is perfectly clear is that we can't run some sort of half-arsed operation. If we want a continental model - so be it. But then Woody has to employ a director of football - or something similar.

We can't have a manager who is supposed to work British style (being in charge of transfers down to having talks with the players' wives) as per the model we still use, but who actually works continental style more than anything.
Click to expand...
Can't really disagree with that. Whatever we do, it needs to be done with clarity. We can't do things half-arsed as you put it. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
Sorry I've only seen LvG's interview on Mutv, I've not kept up with the media stuff, but are we actually sure he's AWOL? I mean confirmation source outside LvG saying he doesn't know where he is? Couldn't LvG saying that just be a deflection attempt from the usual media inquisition? *I dont know where he is* ALA.. "don't ask me anything. I dont know the situation." If anything I'm sure Woodward knows exactly whats happening and will feed LvG the information behind closed doors, and will announce one the deal is completed.

Am I wrong?
 
BennyBlanco said:
Sorry I've only seen LvG's interview on Mutv, I've not kept up with the media stuff, but are we actually sure he's AWOL? I mean confirmation source outside LvG saying he doesn't know where he is? Couldn't LvG saying that just be a deflection attempt from the usual media inquisition? *I dont know where he is* ALA.. "don't ask me anything. I dont know the situation." If anything I'm sure Woodward knows exactly whats happening and will feed LvG the information behind closed doors, and will announce one the deal is completed.

Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
You're not wrong. That I believe is pretty much what's probably going on. But to be honest, I did like LVG's answer. If someone says 'I don't know' it pretty much negates them carrying on that line of question. But for sure the club knows where he is.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Dead wrong. He's buggered off to Argentina to get drunk.

Then again, you could be right too.

As others have pointed out, if we're in the...erm...process of selling him to PSG, and there's a bit of tension too, it makes sense that he isn't around the squad as he'd be normally. Doesn't necessarily mean that he's gone on strike.
 
kouroux said:
Maybe someone can explain it to me but how could food be a problem ? Someone as rich as him can hire a chef who specializes in the dishes he loves, he could also have someone order special ingredients from any place in the world to eat whatever he wants or find any other solution.
Click to expand...

That part always does my head in. You can get food/TV/news from your home country even if you aren't footballer rich.
 
adexkola said:
NFL teams do extensive background checks on potential new players. For the new recruits out of college, interviews are also done to gauge a candidate's potential for success or going off the rails. I think.
Click to expand...
More difficult to do with established professionals who have a lot of other options. The NFL being the only real option (lol @CFL ) they have much more control but even then they let a lot go.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Defensive? Moi? Yeah, perhaps a little. The whole affair is something that bothers me. It goes right to the core of what sort of club we are at the moment.

I take your point - and yes, assessing the footballing abilities of prospective purchases is obviously their main task. But mentality/personality/general suitability is extremely important too. I hate to drag Fergie into this again, but he was always very concerned with the latter aspect - and it seemed to work pretty well for him.

With LVG the point seems especially valid, given his ways.
Click to expand...

There's plenty of players Fergie signed that didn't work out here that you could say was down to personality o. Veron, Kleberson, Anderson, Zaha, Bebe, hell, even Powell sounds like Fergie skipped a background check on.
 
Pexbo said:
There's plenty of players Fergie signed that didn't work out here that you could say was down to personality o. Veron, Kleberson, Anderson, Zaha, Bebe, hell, even Powell sounds like Fergie skipped a background check on.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, it was a general point. There will always be exceptions - in Fergie's case he bought and sold players over a period of 25+ years, so it would be odd if he was spot on every time.

The reason this one stands out is obviously that the player in question is a record signing, bought in his prime, presumably as a key player - and now looks to be moved on after ONE season. It's rather extreme, at least in a United context.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.