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Manchester United 0:3 Manchester City

Old Trafford

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Sun, 29 October 2023 @ 3:30pm GMT
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    If we are to get a result we need to stop Rodri. They will likely play with 6 "midfielders" and Haaland, so our goal should be to hit their flanks and stop the central areas from overwhelming us.

    If we play a midfield 3 and two wingers in addition to the already aggressive wing backs Dalot and Regullion, we will be overrun.

    Onana
    Varane - Maguire - Lindelof
    Dalot --‐----‐ --‐----‐ --‐----‐ --‐----‐ Regullion
    Amrabat - Casemiro
    Bruno - Mount
    Hojlund​

    Facing
    Haaland
    Foden- Alvarez - Silva - Doku
    Rodri - Stones
    Akè - Dias - Akanji
    Emerson
    ​

    Save Rashford for counter attacks in the second half, save Eriksen for that as well to give Rashford quality balls to run onto. Mount and Bruno move well enough to create space for Hojlund, and the wingbacks can bomb forward to stretch the pitch, which can cause problems for Rodri and Stones. When they inebitably win the ball back, we have 5 players behind the ball with the rest pressing from behind to regain posession.

    I'm fearful that if we play our regular 4-3-3 or diamond formation we will make it very easy on Rodri, and City will just make us chase shadows all game and overwhelm us when they regain possession from our midfield.
     
    Is anyone optimistic?
    Counter attack has to be effective. Rashford maybe deployed on the RW? He's better suited to supply Højlund from that side and although has looked ineffective over the years there has shown he can score (late last season) and assist (this season) from the right. Some say Garnacho is better off the bench (certainly was this fixture last season) but he's due a start.
    I don't think this is a game for Eriksen to start even though he was our saving grace last game. Legs required in midfield & I believe he'd be better coming off the bench himself if we need a creative spark late 2nd half. I'd expect the same back 4?
     
    Laurencio said:
    If we are to get a result we need to stop Rodri. They will likely play with 6 "midfielders" and Haaland, so our goal should be to hit their flanks and stop the central areas from overwhelming us.

    If we play a midfield 3 and two wingers in addition to the already aggressive wing backs Dalot and Regullion, we will be overrun.

    Onana
    Varane - Maguire - Lindelof
    Dalot --‐----‐ --‐----‐ --‐----‐ --‐----‐ Regullion
    Amrabat - Casemiro
    Bruno - Mount
    Hojlund​

    Facing
    Haaland
    Foden- Alvarez - Silva - Doku
    Rodri - Stones
    Akè - Dias - Akanji
    Emerson
    ​

    Save Rashford for counter attacks in the second half, save Eriksen for that as well to give Rashford quality balls to run onto. Mount and Bruno move well enough to create space for Hojlund, and the wingbacks can bomb forward to stretch the pitch, which can cause problems for Rodri and Stones. When they inebitably win the ball back, we have 5 players behind the ball with the rest pressing from behind to regain posession.

    I'm fearful that if we play our regular 4-3-3 or diamond formation we will make it very easy on Rodri, and City will just make us chase shadows all game and overwhelm us when they regain possession from our midfield.
    Click to expand...
    Akanji is suspended I think?
     
    Not expecting anything from this, I was at least cautiously optimistic last season. Rodri seems to pull the strings for them right now so would be good to cut off his supply lines.
     
    Lemon Moon said:
    Akanji is suspended I think?
    Click to expand...

    Oh. Maybe he goes with Gvardiol or Walker then? My main concern is that I think if we go with two wingers and two wingbacks we will be lured into relatively harmless "counter attacks", be caught out and be overwhelmed in midfield.
     
    Laurencio said:
    Oh. Maybe he goes with Gvardiol or Walker then? My main concern is that I think if we go with two wingers and two wingbacks we will be lured into relatively harmless "counter attacks", be caught out and be overwhelmed in midfield.
    Click to expand...
    That's a possibility on the 2nd point but I think counter attacking is our only hope to score? We're terrible at set plays, we try to face up to them is suicidal. We've got to sit in and try to break against them.
     
    Win this and United go 3 points behind City.

    Is just mental.

    Not gonna happen, but it does show how easy it is to drown in the doom and gloom that surrounds United.
     
    Lemon Moon said:
    That's a possibility on the 2nd point but I think counter attacking is our only hope to score? We're terrible at set plays, we try to face up to them is suicidal. We've got to sit in and try to break against them.
    Click to expand...

    Sure, but how do you do that? There are many ways to counter attack. I don't see how you can play Antony, Rashford, Dalot and Regullion without getting broken down easily and having every counter end up in a chance for City.

    Say we do counter after a city attack. Stones drops down into defence. Rashford is covered by Walker. Rodri sits in front of the defence. We generally are quite poor at ending our counters with a shot which leaves us vulnerable.

    City regain the ball, pass it to Rodri. He has 3 exceptional ball players ahead of him, Haaland and Doku against our two centrebacks, a wingback and Casemiro. Rashford doesn't track back quickly, Bruno is too far up field, Antony has just lost the ball, Dalot is rushing back and Amrabat has been left standing . They would easily overwhelm us, or play us deep for a cut-back which has been extremely effective against us.
     
    Casemiro - Amrabat
    Bruno
    Antony - Hojlund - Rashford

    For once ETH please forget about that fancy possession football and just sit deep, hit it long to Hojlund and Rashford.
     
    Strelok said:
    Casemiro - Amrabat
    Bruno
    Antony - Hojlund - Rashford

    For once ETH please forget about that fancy possession football and just sit deep, hit it long to Hojlund and Rashford.
    Click to expand...

    I have seen no evidence whatsoever that EtH cares about fancy possession football. With the only exception of the Ole/Rangnick season, our average possession under EtH has been lower than any season since Fergie retired. Even Moyes' United had more of the ball than EtH's United side.
     
    Only the obvious can be stated. Our only hope of taking a point, or three, rests on sitting deep and defending as though the fate of western civilization depended on us and hitting on a counter and being clinical on the one or maybe two decent chances we’ll have all game. Onana must be flawless. Failing any of that we will be taken the woodshed like that sad bloke in the movie titled Unforgiven..
     
    Infra-red said:
    I have seen no evidence whatsoever that EtH cares about fancy possession football. With the only exception of the Ole/Rangnick season, our average possession under EtH has been lower than any season since Fergie retired. Even Moyes' United had more of the ball than EtH's United side.
    Click to expand...
    MyOnlySolskjaer said:
    When have we even played like this? We can't string 3 passes together lately.
    Click to expand...
    It's quite obvious we've been trying to play possession football. We just can't. Hence it looks like crap and we have no possession.
     
    Swedish_Plumber said:
    I fear for us here. Don’t know if Ten Hag survives another bad one against our main rivals either
    Click to expand...

    City haven't been that great, they've been functional but they can be got at. Fulham and West Ham games aside. They've been struggling for goals and can barely keep a clean sheet.

    For weeks people on here were moaning about the Utd game against Wolves. Wolves beat City and City's only goal came from a dodgy freekick. They only beat Sheffield Utd 2-1 with a late goal, Utd beat them 2-1 the weekend and it wasn't seen as good enough for us. The Arsenal game was the worst pile of shite going, almost like Lego and Pep had agreed before hand not to try and beat each other.

    Utd haven't been great either, but I'm not thinking that this is going to be a route, they can be got at.

    It's going to be a home win.
     
    Swedish_Plumber said:
    I fear for us here. Don’t know if Ten Hag survives another bad one against our main rivals either
    Click to expand...

    Everyone expects us to lose, so in that sense it is a free hit for EtH. I agree that he could do with avoiding another 5 or 6 goal hammering, but I think City are mostly playing in 2nd gear at the moment and are likely to take their foot off the gas once the game is won. For that reason, I don't think a hammering is likely, just a very comfortable 2-0 win for the away side, sadly.
     
    Strelok said:
    It's quite obvious we've been trying to play possession football. We just can't. Hence it looks like crap and we have no possession.
    Click to expand...
    That's simply not true. Any relegation candidate can become a possession time by being very careful in their passing as they lack the quality to penetrate defences by it.

    If EtH would value possession it would highly likely look similar to LvG. But it doesn't, because United today tries a much more direct play than possession play. EtH himself claimed he wants United to become the best transition team, and what United try to do is exactly that. They are just crap at doing that.
     
    simonhch said:
    Posted this is another thread, but more apt in here:

    I have to ask myself right now what I want from each component of the team, and then it more or less picks itself. This question is answered differently game to game. The challenges and expectations posed by Sheffield United are very different to Manchester City. This is why you have a squad of players, and why you rarely stick to the same line up game after game. Having an idea of your best XI is good, but using it to death makes you predictable and tired, and I think we've seen an abundance of that this season. Fergie was the master of rotation. A different XI for each occasion, tailored to the opposition. It's what made us so good.

    So City, what do we want from the team? Well we know City are going to hog the ball, whether we like it or not. That's a given. We also know they are going to play a high line. That tells us two things. 1. When we get the ball we have to treat it with care, not waste possession because we won't get it very often. 2. We are going to pose our biggest threat on the counter at pace. So I want speed, directness and flair up front. In defence, I am not looking to play a patient passing game out from the back, because City press from the front better than anyone. I am looking for defensive solidity.

    So my line up would be:

    Onana - Amrabat, Varane, Maguire, Lindelof - Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount - Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund

    Dalot needs a rest. He's played every game and I prefer the combativeness of Amrabat against City and his ability to step into midfield. Then we've got three pure defenders in Varane, Maguire, Lindelof. In midfield I've sacrificed Bruno. Love the man but he's played every game, he gets overplayed, and no player should be a guaranteed start. But the main reason I've sacrificed him is because while he creates the best chances, he's also very careless with the ball. He's a high risk/high reward type of player. He's going to turn it over as much as he finds a team mate, because he's always looking for a killer pass. Against City that is going to hurt us, because it'll just come back at us constantly. Casemiro is a must to anchor that midfield, and Eriksen and Mount are ball handlers. They will keep possession and treat the ball with more care, and we are going to need that to take the pressure off. Eriksen is one of the best players in the league at breaking the lines with his passing, so I see him as vital to setting Rashord and Garnacho away.

    Up front I want the pace and directness of Garnacho and Rashford. To stretch that back line and look to get in behind. It will be our primary threat. Hojlund is there for his ability to bring others into play and hold it up to take the pressure off.

    On the bench that is going to leave us with some good options. Fernandes, Martial, McTominay, Antony etc.

    Is this the right line up? I'm not sure. Won't know until we play, but what it represents is this need to rotate and tailor our game for the occasion. I feel like Erik is so desperate to succeed that he is putting his best XI available out every game and he's running them into the ground. And just because Bruno, for example, is the captain and maybe best player, doesn't mean he has to play every game, or is right for every game. We have to start looking at the season as the collection of 60+ matches that it is, and utilise the squad better. Everything about this club is viewed with short-termism in mind and not holistically. And that seems to have spread to the manager. He needs to show more faith in his squad, start rotating, and start tailoring his line ups and the way we play to unqiue challenges of each opponent.
    Click to expand...

    Appreciate the thought that you put into that post but I hope ETH plays it differently. Niether Amrabat or Lindelof has looked at all comfortable at FB to me and I think it would be madness to drop Dalot for this one. I'd favour Reguilon over Lindelof - I don't trust either of them defensively at LB, but at least Reguilon offers something in our own build up.

    Eriksen is a conundrum - we only look like a halfway plausible team at the moment with him on the pitch, but he only seems to have 30-45 minutes of football a match in him, and at the best of times he's awful at tracking runners defensively. That's to be expected from a converted AM with below average physical qualities, but it's a massive issue against a team like City. I'm hoping for an Amrabat/Casemiro base in midfield, with Eriksen either starting alongside them or coming on in the second half.

    Up front I don't really care as long as Hojlund starts. None of the rest of them have made a particularly compelling case for a place in the team.
     
    RuudTom83 said:
    Win this and United go 3 points behind City.

    Is just mental.

    Not gonna happen, but it does show how easy it is to drown in the doom and gloom that surrounds United.
    Click to expand...
    Lose and we're 9 points behind after 10 games. And then the doom and gloom is all encompassing.
     
    It's games like this that make you think our big players missing from the back line are arguably more relevant than the troubles and indecision over the front 5. Shaw, Martinez and AWB fit and starting would make me feel a lot better about this.
     
    stefan92 said:
    That's simply not true. Any relegation candidate can become a possession time by being very careful in their passing as they lack the quality to penetrate defences by it.

    If EtH would value possession it would highly likely look similar to LvG. But it doesn't, because United today tries a much more direct play than possession play. EtH himself claimed he wants United to become the best transition team, and what United try to do is exactly that. They are just crap at doing that.
    Click to expand...
    LVG is pure possession. Nobody play like that anymore. Nowaday the trend is a mix of possession football and gegen press. Hence the very high line, FBs moving into the midfield to help with possession, also quick transition and high pressing. Prime example is City.

    We played with a very high line. Our FBs usually move into the midfield. We're also supposed to do high pressing and quick transition. The idea is the same. Quality is just crap.
     
    We are in big trouble for a simple reason: there's no way to win over City unless you give your all and bring your best.

    1. We cannot play low block and hope for a counter-attack goal because our defense is not disciplined enough to sustain City's attack if we are sitting back. This is probably a way to losing with high score
    2. We are not good enough to bring the game to them and be on the front foot with a team like City

    we will need to suddenly turn into the best version of all our players and the best version of our team, bring ton of desire and passion and then yeah - we could do something, but which game have we done any of that, this season in? Can't remember a single one. We've been completely lethargic
     
    Strelok said:
    LVG is pure possession. Nobody play like that anymore. Nowaday the trend is a mix of possession football and gegen press. Hence the very high line, FBs moving into the midfield to help with possession, also quick transition and high pressing. Prime example is City.

    We played with a very high line. Our FBs usually move into the midfield. We're also supposed to do high pressing and quick transition. The idea is the same. Quality is just crap.
    Click to expand...
    Exactly my point. Moving high up on the pitch and focus on transition instead of playing deeper to keep the ball save shows clear priorities - transition over possession.
     
    Same as anyone playing City, hope all our starters have a 9/10 and they have an off day. No big drama. Nobody expects anything from us, I think we were under more pressure our last couple of league games.
     
    Strelok said:
    LVG is pure possession. Nobody play like that anymore. Nowaday the trend is a mix of possession football and gegen press. Hence the very high line, FBs moving into the midfield to help with possession, also quick transition and high pressing. Prime example is City.

    We played with a very high line. Our FBs usually move into the midfield. We're also supposed to do high pressing and quick transition. The idea is the same. Quality is just crap.
    Click to expand...
    There are multiple ingredients to high press.

    Interestingly enough, this season, we are #1 in EPL for turnovers high up the pitch. That's definitely a trait of a high press play. The problem is - when we get the ball back, we waste it either by losing it right away or shooting a long shot at the goal, with 2% chance of scoring it.

    I think the skills we are missing most painfully are - ability to play in tight spaces without losing a ball and precision of shots from our forwards, especially Rashford (this season) and Antony (ever since he joined).
     
    Last edited:
    Fortitude said:
    Have you forgotten 2021? That is the worst humiliation I've seen from us in my entire time watching over decades. The Liverpool game(s) run it close, but that was an absolute decimation.
    Click to expand...
    I have forgotten 2021 apparently as I can't figure out which game you're talking about.
     
    ‐----------------------Onana
    ------------Varane---------Maguire
    Dalot------------Amrabat-----------Reguilon
    ---------Hannibal---------Casemiro
    -----------------------Bruno
    -----Højlund-------------------Rashford

    Since Bruno will start, have him play in the way he might actually be the best in the world at and have him hit early and into the wider spaces with both forwards playing from outside to in with no actual centre forward role, forcing City to face the non-conventional themselves. Have both forwards drive to the 25yardish area and take shots.

    We're not coherent and are more likely to lose the ball of our own accord if trying to pass through the lines, so bypass that and work long, at pace in which case, most of the team are still behind the ball if the play doesn't come off.

    Don't give City the chance to play through us; apply tackle fouls (like everybody else does; have a tireless runner pushing and pigeonholing; conserve the main body of energy for the last 25mins and bring in subs appropriately.

    This game isn't the fold we think it is and even we lose, we can make a contest of it. If we play in the same naive manner we have been doing, it will be a humiliation, one way or another, or even both ways (high score and stupidly low possession).
     
    stefan92 said:
    Exactly my point. Moving high up on the pitch and focus on transition instead of playing deeper to keep the ball save shows clear priorities - transition over possession.
    Click to expand...
    You still don't get it. Let's agree to disagree then.

    NewGlory said:
    There are multiple ingredients to high press.

    Interestingly enough, this season, we are #1 in EPL for turnovers high up the pitch. That's definitely a trait of a high press play. The problem is - when we get the ball back, we waste it either by losing it right away or shooting a long shot at the goal, with 2% chance of scoring it.

    I think the skill we are missing most painfully is - ability to play in tight spaces without losing a ball and precision of shots from our forwards, especially Rashford (this season) and Antony (ever since he joined).
    Click to expand...
    Tbh that's quite a surprise for me. Our high pressing usually looks so disjointed and unorganised.

    Anyway you're probably right about the missing part. Tbh we're so crap and missing so many things I have no idea what is our biggest issue anymore.
     
    With the way United are defending and so error prone I'm expecting at least two goals conceded so to get a result can a non clinical United team suddenly become clinical as this City aren't going to cough up or allow many goal scoring chances.
     
    Feck me, I’d somehow managed to forget we had these cnuts this weekend, and came here to remind myself who we were playing. Grim.

    Going to go into hibernation for a week starting Saturday evening and pretend this weekend didn’t happen.

    Enjoy your weekend lads and lasses.
     
    If doubling up on Haaland don't forget Alvarez. He's bloody lethal.
    Make Grealish/Doku/Foden be the ones who most chances come to and you have a chance.
     
    tomaldinho1 said:
    It's time for ETH to unleash his masterplan, MortarBall.
    Pack the midfield, forget the wings and play for set pieces. Maguire, McT, Hojlund, Varane, Amrabat, Lindelof get the stacked big lads up there. Onana launching rockets up to the giants looming over the pussy fecks in sky blue. Dalot whipping them in from the right, Reguillon from the left. Total bombardment.

    United 4 - 0 City
    Maguire '9
    Hojlund '14
    McT '57'86
    Click to expand...
    Something doesn’t stack up with your plan
     
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Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

Andre Onana image Andre Onana 87% of 248 votes

Runners-up

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Player Ratings

4.1 Total Average Rating

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Score Predictions

54,174,29
  • Man Utd win
  • Man City win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 13% Man Utd 0:3 Man City
  • 13% Man Utd 1:3 Man City
  • 11% Man Utd 2:1 Man City
  • 7% Man Utd 0:4 Man City
  • 7% Man Utd 1:2 Man City
  • 6% Man Utd 1:4 Man City
  • 6% Man Utd 0:2 Man City
  • 5% Man Utd 1:1 Man City
  • 5% Man Utd 2:2 Man City
  • 4% Man Utd 0:5 Man City
  • 4% Man Utd 1:0 Man City
  • 3% Man Utd 2:0 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 0:9 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 0:6 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 1:5 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 1:6 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 2:4 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 3:2 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 0:7 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 1:7 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 3:1 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 3:9 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 2:3 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 4:0 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 4:1 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 3:0 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 1:8 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 3:3 Man City
Compiled from 257 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Man City
Possession
39% 61%
Shots
7 21
Shots on Target
3 10
Corners
7 12
Fouls
9 4

Referee

Paul Tierney

Man Utd Lineup

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