League Cup Semi-Final

Manchester United 0:2 Manchester City

Old Trafford

Kick-off
Wed, 6 January 2021 @ 7:45pm GMT
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    It's incredible that Fred got 17% of the MOTM votes. The guy was horrible. He should have been subbed at the very latest when he received the yellow card. Matic is far better than him and why Donny van der Beek doesn't get to play is beyond me.

    Martial, just not up to it. He's flat and his body language should be used as the before photo for a pharma ad for depression.

    Pogba for me was immense - easily MUFCs MOTM. They have to find a way to keep him at the club.
     
    Not playing Bailly was an massive error. He was MOTM and best defender in consecutive 2 games who gives us physicallity, heading and speed at the back. No subs until 75 min. Van de Beek on at 88min was too much for me. Just because we're second in the League doesn't mean Ole get it right every game. We still don't play like a team and we're waiting on individual brilliance. What is our best 11? What VdB did to deserve this? So now to be a "real" fan we have to say all is great and "we're in the title race"?
     
    Your post literally said his erratic passing was the reason top clubs weren’t in for him.

    And now you’re saying pep wouldn’t want him in his team. You do realise de Bruyne losing the ball multiple times by taking risk taking passes too? :lol:
    Bruno went for a couple of hail Mary shots and a few hail Mary passes but we had two lumps upfront offering nothing.
     
    His second half wasn’t as good, I still think he did more in the match than the other two most advanced in Martial and Pogba.

    Agreed. I don’t know why Ole is persisting with Pogba anyway. He wants to leave and we have a more than capable player on the bench in VDB who isn’t being given a fair chance. Martial has shown he’s poor too many time.
     
    We were shown up - their midfield walked through ours.
    We we really expecting to "control" the game against City though. They tend to dominate possession of the ball regardless of who they play, against them, it's a matter of taking your chances when they come, and being switched on defensively. Incidentally, we switched off at key moments.

    That said, apart from the first 25 odd mins we were actually matching up well and they only started finding spaces when we conceded and began to commit men forward.
     
    He has improved the City defence massively. I remember defence expert @Ekeke saying he wouldn’t.

    Stones has improved them more. But Dias is obviously doing his part too as city have best def record in the league.

    In the 10 matches Stones has played City have conceded 1 goal to Chelsea and thats it. I didn't rate Stones either but that's a remarkable comeback
     
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    Agreed. I don’t know why Ole is persisting with Pogba anyway. He wants to leave and we have a more than capable player on the bench in VDB who isn’t being given a fair chance. Martial has shown he’s poor too many time.
    If Pogba wasn't playing today, United would have been slaughtered.
     
    Think tonight reconfirmed same as after the RB game- if we play against teams with a “false 9” we are in trouble and we need to find a way to deal with it by packing the midfield or some thing as the gaps between defence/midfield/attack was huge tonight
     
    Think tonight reconfirmed same as after the RB game- if we play against teams with a “false 9” we are in trouble and we need to find a way to deal with it by packing the midfield or some thing as the gaps between defence/midfield/attack was huge tonight

    It's pretty simple and it's annoying the same thing happened, you just don't start Fred/McT sitting in the pivot.
     
    Other than Pogba, Harry and Shaw(maybe at fault for the goal but who cares) all of them had a stinker, 100% stinker.
    Dunno why Ole didn't change the system at HT though. You can't play a narrow team vs a wide Pep team, you'll never see the ball.

    Oh and we badly need a striker, Rashford finishing is championship level and I'm not even kidding, it's as bad as AWB. He's such a good instinct player but has zero ability to stop and use his motherfecking brain.
     
    Disappointing but to me, less of a surprise than being level on points with Liverpool.
    Some of our football in the middle third was neat but in attack, City looked more likely to score and when defending, we looked more likely to make an error.
    What I struggle to understand is why we don’t use our subs earlier. This is a persistent feature of our gameplay and for me, it places a question mark over the manager’s judgement.
    What matters now is how the players react and whether the manager and coaches can get the team back on track.
    They all need to show what they’re really made of and for our part, we should judge them at the business end of the season, not now, in the heat of another painful moment.
    Not forgetting we are still on the verge of being top of the PL.
     
    Not playing Bailly was an massive error. He was MOTM and best defender in consecutive 2 games who gives us physicallity, heading and speed at the back. No subs until 75 min. Van de Beek on at 88min was too much for me. Just because we're second in the League doesn't mean Ole get it right every game. We still don't play like a team and we're waiting on individual brilliance. What is our best 11? What VdB did to deserve this? So now to be a "real" fan we have to say all is great and "we're in the title race"?
    To me out best CB pairing is Tuanzebe and Bially, I know it may sound crazy and comes on more of a hunch but their speed and Bially's ability to be absolutely ferocious is better off for us. Seems like we need a RB immediately too.
     
    We’re almost exclusively losing crucial games in the last year. 7 of our 10 losses:

    - Liverpool away (biggest game of the league season)
    - Chelsea (eliminated from a cup)
    - Sevilla (eliminated from a cup)
    - Arsenal home (big game awful performance)
    - Paris home (needed a point to qualify)
    - Leipzig away (eliminated from a cup)
    - City home (eliminated for a cup)

    When the pressure is on we just don’t seem to deliver.
    To be honest, all teams except the winner of a cup lose “the most crucial game”.
    That’s pretty much the idea with cups.
     
    Bruno, Rashford & Martial had absolute stinkers.

    Personally not that hugely upset and disappointed with the result as the big games for me are next week against Burnley and then Liverpool. Win those two and this result is easily forgotten about.
     
    He was. And if you see my posts I'm one of his biggest supporters. But this is the one part of his game that i'd like to see him change. He tends to pull away from low crosses to avoid own goals. I'd rather see him be aggressive there and try and clear it. If he does score an OG then at least he tried to do the right thing. It was a dangerous ball though...

    Good point there.
     
    To be honest, all teams except the winner of a cup lose “the most crucial game”.
    That’s pretty much the idea with cups.
    The idea of the cups for United is to be the winner of the cup. There’s 5 different examples there where the result has meant we haven’t won it. We haven’t won anything under Ole.
     
    You think we can win the league?
    We have to play spurs, city, Liverpool, arsenal and Chelsea away.

    So far this season we've not beaten a single top team in the EPL.
    I really think we can. We have the most squad depth in the league and top players at eery position. A top manager would win the league with this squad.
     
    I really think we can. We have the most squad depth in the league and top players at eery position. A top manager would win the league with this squad.

    We do not remotely have the most squad dept in the league, and nor do we have top players at every position. City, Liverpool and Chelsea all have more depth of quality in their squad than we do. We don't have two bona fide CBs, we have no second option on right back, we have no one capable of deputising effectively for Bruno, we have no natural right winger and the best fallback option for Rashford on the left, unless we're playing a CM out of position, is Daniel James.
     
    When your 2 main strikers are Martial and Rashford, then despite some decent games , they have major flaws.
    Rashfords finishing is erratic, really only plays well on the left, and speed is his strength.
    Martial is a complete enigma, doesnt seen to be up to EPL despite playing for what 4 years, seems to prefer to look for a penalty than actually take a shot. Cavani is a true 9 , and until we find someone to play permanently there, the struggle against top sides will continue unfortunately.
    Pogba was possibly the best tonight, closely followed by Shaw. Hendo was ok, Maguire and Fred too, the rest were poor to below middling.
    Not a game to slit wrists over,e but it underlined the issues again, until they are addressed and Ole is quicker to react and perhaps move on his favourites, then expect it to continue.
    Time to move on the deadwood that is strangling our wages and depth, and Look to add some real quality, not confident Woody and the Glazers are competent to do that.
     
    Well, not much consensus here. Either on team performance or individual performances. But then, what with the surges of ups and downs lately, it's not easy to put one's thoughts and emotions in order.

    Some thoughts.

    1. I've been thinking the team now has two chances to prove to themselves and the world at large that we belong in the top echelon. This was the first, and we blew it. Match seen as a whole, City was clearly the better team. The second comes against Liverpool in 11 days.

    2. That being said, it wasn't a bad performance. Especially not the first half. But we gradually slipped out of it, decreasing in crispness, rhytm and confidence, all of which looked excellent for the first 35 minutes or so. Our two best players, Bruno and Rashford, had notably weak games by their own standards. Still, at least we don't concede any goals from open play, which is good against this City team.

    3. The feeling it leaves you with is this is how far we've come, at this point. Not further. We're no longer defending like mad and praying for a counterstrike against City, but that also means that we are now having to play a kind of game that demands more, and brings a different kind of vulnerability.

    I wish people would stop going on so about substitutions, to which many seem to ascribe an absurdly exaggerated importance. Obviously, the right substitution at the right time can have a profound impact, but in most cases, substitutions have no significant effect on the game at all. Some people seem to imagine that if a team loses a game without having made impactful substitutions, that means the manager has messed up.
     
    It's an opportunity now for this team to dust themselves off and show they aren't mentally weak - one of the biggest criticisms thrown at them and factual based on patterns of results over the last few years.

    Watford is irrelevant, but if they can either perform well or grind out a positive result against the scousers then there is little to worry about and perhaps we can put tonight down to a lack of rotation and fatigue or just an off night.

    If the scousers make easy work of us like City were able to in the end, we're fighting for 3rd at best and you have to wonder where the next step is in the current regime to improve things. Is it personnel, is it coaching, is it the style of play (or lack of) or are we in and infantile stage of the process?

    With the exception of Paris away and Leipzig at home, big game results this season have been poor.
     
    These are the kind of games when you need a proper manager

    These are the kind of games where supporters like you can go .
    Well, not much consensus here. Either on team performance or individual performances. But then, what with the surges of ups and downs lately, it's not easy to put one's thoughts and emotions in order.

    Some thoughts.

    1. I've been thinking the team now has two chances to prove to themselves and the world at large that we belong in the top echelon. This was the first, and we blew it. Match seen as a whole, City was clearly the better team. The second comes against Liverpool in 11 days.

    2. That being said, it wasn't a bad performance. Especially not the first half. But we gradually slipped out of it, decreasing in crispness, rhytm and confidence, all of which looked excellent for the first 35 minutes or so. Our two best players, Bruno and Rashford, had notably weak games by their own standards. Still, at least we don't concede any goals from open play, which is good against this City team.

    3. The feeling it leaves you with is this is how far we've come, at this point. Not further. We're no longer defending like mad and praying for a counterstrike against City, but that also means that we are now having to play a kind of game that demands more, and brings a different kind of vulnerability.

    I wish people would stop going on so about substitutions, to which many seem to ascribe an absurdly exaggerated importance. Obviously, the right substitution at the right time can have a profound impact, but in most cases, substitutions have no significant effect on the game at all. Some people seem to imagine that if a team loses a game without having made impactful substitutions, that means the manager has messed up.


    Sensible post!

    Also, have to add that improvement comes gradually. It was never like, suddenly United wins 100% of all games and takes the treble. I had hoped for a win today but like Ole said, that something extra wasn't there today. That happens. Now let's see if they bounce right back and goes on continuing the good run in the league. I believe the team will continue to improve. But I think today we saw how important Cavani will be for the rest of the season. I think we look a lot better with him on the pitch.
     
    The idea of the cups for United is to be the winner of the cup. There’s 5 different examples there where the result has meant we haven’t won it. We haven’t won anything under Ole.
    Yes but your thinking is wrong. Every match we won in cups were also critical matches. That’s the nature of a cup. And Liverpool and Arsenal in the league, how is that critical matches? If the idea is that it is critical because it is a “big club”, then we actually won a lot of “critical games” last season.
     
    Well, not much consensus here. Either on team performance or individual performances. But then, what with the surges of ups and downs lately, it's not easy to put one's thoughts and emotions in order.

    Some thoughts.

    1. I've been thinking the team now has two chances to prove to themselves and the world at large that we belong in the top echelon. This was the first, and we blew it. Match seen as a whole, City was clearly the better team. The second comes against Liverpool in 11 days.

    2. That being said, it wasn't a bad performance. Especially not the first half. But we gradually slipped out of it, decreasing in crispness, rhytm and confidence, all of which looked excellent for the first 35 minutes or so. Our two best players, Bruno and Rashford, had notably weak games by their own standards. Still, at least we don't concede any goals from open play, which is good against this City team.

    3. The feeling it leaves you with is this is how far we've come, at this point. Not further. We're no longer defending like mad and praying for a counterstrike against City, but that also means that we are now having to play a kind of game that demands more, and brings a different kind of vulnerability.

    I wish people would stop going on so about substitutions, to which many seem to ascribe an absurdly exaggerated importance. Obviously, the right substitution at the right time can have a profound impact, but in most cases, substitutions have no significant effect on the game at all. Some people seem to imagine that if a team loses a game without having made impactful substitutions, that means the manager has messed up.
    Good post and agree. Imo we went out trying to win this, but to win against this very strong City team, we need Bruno and Rashford performing top football and they didn’t. It’s good we didn’t concede in open play but again alarming that we concede at set pieces.
     
    Yes but your thinking is wrong. Every match we won in cups were also critical matches. That’s the nature of a cup. And Liverpool and Arsenal in the league, how is that critical matches? If the idea is that it is critical because it is a “big club”, then we actually won a lot of “critical games” last season.
    No you’re overlooking it. My point is simply that we are winning feck all...
     
    When they were nowhere near as good as they are right now. Also Spurs have dipped a bit since winning there
    They are not going to play them right now obviously.
    I think Spurs are better suited to beating City as Jose plays the defensive game and yet he has two lethal strikers that he can counter with whereas when Ole plays a top team he plays the defensive game but he has inconsistent strikers to counter with.
     
    They are not going to play them right now obviously.
    I think Spurs are better suited to beating City as Jose plays the defensive game and yet he has two lethal strikers that he can counter with whereas when Ole plays a top team he plays the defensive game but he has inconsistent strikers to counter with.
    Those top two can't go on all season. Kane in particular. He has a chance if Moura and Bergwijn step up to mark a bit more
     
    Those top two can't go on all season. Kane in particular. He has a chance if Moura and Bergwijn step up to mark a bit more
    Maybe not but whenever those two start they are a huge threat.
    They are better individually or collectively than anything we have as striking options at the moment.
     
    Maybe not but whenever those two start they are a huge threat.
    They are better individually or collectively than anything we have as striking options at the moment.
    Son is the best in the PL right now. He doesn't miss
     
    Of course, what will happen now is we will hammer Watford, beat Burnley and then go to Anfield and beat the Scousers by a disputed penalty that will make Klopp explode. All the pundits will laud Ole and the players and then we will drift to fourth place. Such is life being a United fan.
     
    Fourth semi final failure in a row! Obviously no 'St Crispin day' send off speech by Ole. Did not seem as if any "stiffen the sinews and summon up the blood" words were ringing in players ears as they took the pitch; after fifteen minutes we were always second best.

    Sloppiness throughout the team, Rashford and Martial getting in one another's way, both going for same space and sometimes same ball, neither is a centre-forward and they didn't play last night as a front two, but as two separate would-be strikers.

    We showed no 'nous' in mid field; Fred again sloppy passing undoes any good chasing work he may achieve, McTominay slightly better but outclassed by City's midfield. As the last Caraboa semi against City last year showed, we were 3-0 down by half time, Matic came on and we won the second half 1-0.

    Pogba needed help in midfield, Bruno looks so tired, half expect him to come on to the pitch in his PJ's. Only one of his little flicks came off all match and that was in a nothing position; his shots on goal troubled the seat covering half way up the Stretford End, more than City's rookie keeper.

    Peps master stroke in not playing with a conventional centre-forward at times had Maguire and Lindehof guessing, although both grew into their role of defending whilst having no one specifically to mark. (I liked Gary Neville's comment that defenders want their attacker to be next to them so they know where to find them, very true!)

    Best player for me was Henderson, his two first class saves(second half) prevented us from a much bigger humiliation, although there was an element of luck about both City's goals.

    We are improving in the League, but in the higher reaches of Cup competitions we cannot yet find ' a way to win'!
     
    Fourth semi final failure in a row! Obviously no 'St Crispin day' send off speech by Ole. Did not seem as if any "stiffen the sinews and summon up the blood" words were ringing in players ears as they took the pitch; after fifteen minutes we were always second best.

    Sloppiness throughout the team, Rashford and Martial getting in one another's way, both going for same space and sometimes same ball, neither is a centre-forward and they didn't play last night as a front two, but as two separate would-be strikers.

    We showed no 'nous' in mid field; Fred again sloppy passing undoes any good chasing work he may achieve, McTominay slightly better but outclassed by City's midfield. As the last Caraboa semi against City last year showed, we were 3-0 down by half time, Matic came on and we won the second half 1-0.

    Pogba needed help in midfield, Bruno looks so tired, half expect him to come on to the pitch in his PJ's. Only one of his little flicks came off all match and that was in a nothing position; his shots on goal troubled the seat covering half way up the Stretford End, more than City's rookie keeper.

    Peps master stroke in not playing with a conventional centre-forward at times had Maguire and Lindehof guessing, although both grew into their role of defending whilst having no one specifically to mark. (I liked Gary Neville's comment that defenders want their attacker to be next to them so they know where to find them, very true!)

    Best player for me was Henderson, his two first class saves(second half) prevented us from a much bigger humiliation, although there was an element of luck about both City's goals.

    We are improving in the League, but in the higher reaches of Cup competitions we cannot yet find ' a way to win'!

    You'd think we watched different games. Our build-up passing was maybe the best we've had all season - quick and crisp passing through the City press, especially the first half hour. Rashford and Martial weren't playing as a front two. We were playing 4231, with Rashford on the right and Martial as striker. And Pogba played on the left, not in the midfield. Bruno looked more excessively turned on than tired to me. His shots included the closest we got to a goal, and forced an excellent save from Steffen.
     
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Post-match discussion

Player Ratings

5.1 Total Average Rating

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Compiled from 241 ratings.

Score Predictions

136,44,27
  • Man Utd win
  • Man City win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 38% Man Utd 2:1 Man City
  • 10% Man Utd 1:2 Man City
  • 10% Man Utd 2:0 Man City
  • 9% Man Utd 1:1 Man City
  • 8% Man Utd 1:0 Man City
  • 7% Man Utd 3:1 Man City
  • 4% Man Utd 0:2 Man City
  • 3% Man Utd 2:2 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 1:3 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 2:3 Man City
  • 2% Man Utd 3:2 Man City
  • 1% Man Utd 3:0 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:0 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:1 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 2:4 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:3 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:4 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 0:5 Man City
  • 0% Man Utd 5:0 Man City
Compiled from 207 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Man City
Possession
40% 60%
Shots
11 12
Shots on Target
2 4
Corners
4 4
Fouls
9 6

Referee

Martin Atkinson