Champions League Group F

Manchester United 3:2 Atalanta

OId Trafford

Kick-off
Wed, 20 October 2021 @ 8:00pm BST
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Discussion Your Lineup Prediction

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    MichaelRed said:
    My post does attack your post tbf. Ronaldo doesn't press & never has, but he does track back (he made a tackle at the LB position & a tackle at the RB position vs West Ham in the league for example) & he does move around to cut off passing lanes which makes it easier for his teammates to press. This has always been how Ronaldo has contributed defensively rather than fully pressing himself. Messi does even less defensive work than this, not pressing or even tracking back & rarely cuts off passing lanes. Now, I was under the impression that Ronaldo & Messi were the two greatest players of all time but people's opinion on their pressing ability almost makes out as if it's actually Vardy & Firmino who are the greatest to ever play the game.
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    Messi always pressed though.
     
    An early goal followed by a couple more later on all whilst keeping a clean sheet please. That too much to ask for? Fine, I’ll take a 2-1 win after conceding first from one of our own corners then.

    In all seriousness I’m looking forward to tonight. From what I’ve seen of Atalanta (which isn’t much), their style should suit us.
     
    Hammondo said:
    I mean when he was younger, hes just collecting wage packets.
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    Even when he was younger. He has never had good pressing stats & on top of that he has never been a player to track back either, he consistently statistically covers the least distance in a game. I'm not calling him bad because of it, the point was to argue against the idea that you're somehow bad if you don't constantly press. The scapegoating on Ronaldo right now is unreal.
     
    We must be very wary of Ilicic.
    He's a big man and the central defenders will have a difficult night against him.
     
    Why am I always filled with optimism before a match when my head knows what is likely to happen?
     
    I'm excited about this one as long as there's a bit of a change in the system. I was wary of Villarreal as they already proved they could were capable of beating us in the Europa League final but this one I think should be more routine, a nice boost after the recent league performances. Just give me anything other than McFred - 3 - Ronaldo.
     
    christinaa said:
    We must be very wary of Ilicic.
    He's a big man and the central defenders will have a difficult night against him.
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    Zapata as well, no idea how he’s not got a big move yet. If Gasperini has watched even one of our games, he’ll play him on Lindelof.
     
    spiriticon said:
    Why am I always filled with optimism before a match when my head knows what is likely to happen?
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    Because why even be a fan if you're not going to be happy and excited about the team playing?

    I fecking hate the negativity in the matchday threads before a single kick on the ball from a lot of the frequent posters (not yours).
     
    Interesting that United are massive favourites in the betting market despite our recently poor form. Are Atalanta really that bad?
     
    SATA said:
    Interesting that United are massive favourites in the betting market despite our recently poor form. Are Atalanta really that bad?
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    It's because United is a big name club and they are not a big name club. They play much better football than United do and are coached really well, and have a very good group of players. They're probably the most difficult opponent in the group (and considering our form this year, likely the best team?).
     
    MichaelRed said:
    Even when he was younger. He has never had good pressing stats & on top of that he has never been a player to track back either, he consistently statistically covers the least distance in a game. I'm not calling him bad because of it, the point was to argue against the idea that you're somehow bad if you don't constantly press. The scapegoating on Ronaldo right now is unreal.
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    Can you share the source please.
     
    MichaelRed said:
    No he doesn't. He's in the bottom 7% of forwards for pressures.
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    According to Spanish website Sport, as of the beginning of March in the 20/21 Season Messi was the second most effective of forwards in pressing. Under Koeman Messi had pressed more than he had done in years, in fact.

    Lewandowski at first with 73 recoveries, 214 pressures at 34.1% effectiveness per press.
    Messi at second with 69 recoveries, 209 pressures at 33% effectiveness per press.

    Messi pressed more times than Suarez, Benzema, Ronaldo (131 pressures), Ibrahimovic, Mbappe (135), Haaland, and Neymar.
    The only forwards who attempted more than him by March was Salah, Lewa and Rashford (equal with Messi at 209).

    So, Messi pressed, and did lots of it, and very well.
     
    Hammondo said:
    Can you share the source please.
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    A quick google turns up this site https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/Lionel-Messi
    They have match logs back to 2004 but I think the defensive pressures were only tracked from 2014 onwards. You can use this link https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/matchlogs/2014-2015/defense/Lionel-Messi-Match-Logs to check his 2014-15 defensive stats & you'll see he makes less than 10 presses per game on average which on any given season will land you in the bottom 5-10% of pressures when compared with other forwards.
     
    Hoof The Ball said:
    According to Spanish website Sport, as of the beginning of March in the 20/21 Season Messi was the second most effective of forwards in pressing. Under Koeman Messi had pressed more than he had done in years, in fact.

    Lewandowski at first with 73 recoveries, 214 pressures at 34.1% effectiveness per press.
    Messi at second with 69 recoveries, 209 pressures at 33% effectiveness per press.

    Messi pressed more times than Suarez, Benzema, Ronaldo (131 pressures), Ibrahimovic, Mbappe (135), Haaland, and Neymar.
    The only forwards who attempted more than him by March was Salah, Lewa and Rashford (equal with Messi at 209).

    So, Messi pressed, and did lots of it, and very well.
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    Efficacy is not a good way to show Messi is a pressing player. If I take 1 penalty and score it I have 100% efficacy compared with a player that took 100 and scored 90 to only have 90% efficacy. Does my 1 penalty make me the better penatly taker? Come on, use some sense.
     
    MichaelRed said:
    Efficacy is not a good way to show Messi is a pressing player. If I take 1 penalty and score it I have 100% efficacy compared with a player that took 100 and scored 90 to only have 90% efficacy. Does my 1 penalty make me the better penatly taker? Come on, use some sense.
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    He still attempted more presses. Joint third most press attempts in that list of ten. Even if you discount the efficacy you can't negate the facts of the number of the attempts. It is what it is. If he was lazy in the press he'd be near the bottom. Spoiler. He's not.
     
    Hoof The Ball said:
    He still attempted more presses. Joint third most press attempts in that list of ten. Even if you discount the efficacy you can't negate the facts of the number of the attempts. It is what it is.
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    In that very select list that included players like Suarez, Ibrahimovic & Ronaldo? So he presses more than people that literally don't press? Here are his stats for that 20-21 season you were referring to.
    e0211fdd155b99878ac92ac251523790.png

    Yes, his success rate is incredibly high, placing him in the 97th percentile but his attempts are the bottom 7%. He does not press, stop trying to create a false narrative. I don't know why you're even trying to piggyback on this conversation to defend a player that I'm not even trying to criticise. I don't care that he doesn't press, my point is that him not pressing doesn't make him a bad player & so the same logic should be applied to Ronaldo but yet lots of posters want to blame everything on Ronaldo because he doesn't press.
     
    I really think this is a massive game for Ole... If he doesn't get 4 Points from the Atalanta games it might get ugly earlier than some of us are predicting. If we lose one of these games and don't go on to qualify, it has to be seen as a catastrophic failure. Atalanta and Villareal are of course no mugs, but we couldn't have asked for a much better group.

    Hoping to see some cutting edge and clinical attacking play.
     
    Havak said:
    I really think this is a massive game for Ole... If he doesn't get 4 Points from the Atalanta games it might get ugly earlier than some of us are predicting. If we lose one of these games and don't go on to qualify, it has to be seen as a catastrophic failure. Atalanta and Villareal are of course no mugs, but we couldn't have asked for a much better group.

    Hoping to see some cutting edge and clinical attacking play.
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    I suspect we might nick a win but I wouldn't expect a stellar performance with our current coaching setup. Its going to be the usual Ole masterstroke of Bruno/Ronaldo/Greenwood pulling off a worldie, their players making a costly mistake and De Gea continuing with his Brad Friedel act this season.
     
    Havak said:
    I really think this is a massive game for Ole... If he doesn't get 4 Points from the Atalanta games it might get ugly earlier than some of us are predicting. If we lose one of these games and don't go on to qualify, it has to be seen as a catastrophic failure. Atalanta and Villareal are of course no mugs, but we couldn't have asked for a much better group.

    Hoping to see some cutting edge and clinical attacking play.
    Click to expand...
    Bayern play against Benfica at 8pm. Hope this helps.
     
    MichaelRed said:
    A quick google turns up this site https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/Lionel-Messi
    They have match logs back to 2004 but I think the defensive pressures were only tracked from 2014 onwards. You can use this link https://fbref.com/en/players/d70ce98e/matchlogs/2014-2015/defense/Lionel-Messi-Match-Logs to check his 2014-15 defensive stats & you'll see he makes less than 10 presses per game on average which on any given season will land you in the bottom 5-10% of pressures when compared with other forwards.
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    Im thinking with pep everyone worked hard, but after him that dropped significantly and became much weaker because of it
     
    Hammondo said:
    Im thinking with pep everyone worked hard, but after him that dropped significantly and became much weaker because of it
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    Even under Pep he was always criticised for walking everywhere around the pitch. It's fine, not every player has to be a Jamie Vardy. Messi is still one of the greatest ever.
     
    Ixion said:
    I'm excited about this one as long as there's a bit of a change in the system. I was wary of Villarreal as they already proved they could were capable of beating us in the Europa League final but this one I think should be more routine, a nice boost after the recent league performances. Just give me anything other than McFred - 3 - Ronaldo.
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    I think you’ll get almost exactly what you’re describing. McFred- Rash/Bruno/Greenwood - Cavani
    But CR will be subbed on at some point.
     
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Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

Cristiano Ronaldo image Cristiano Ronaldo 29% of 315 votes

Runners-up

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Player Ratings

6.2 Total Average Rating

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Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 319 ratings.
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Score Predictions

153,68,58
  • Man Utd win
  • Atalanta win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 20% Man Utd 2:1 Atalanta
  • 11% Man Utd 1:1 Atalanta
  • 10% Man Utd 1:2 Atalanta
  • 9% Man Utd 2:2 Atalanta
  • 8% Man Utd 2:0 Atalanta
  • 8% Man Utd 3:1 Atalanta
  • 6% Man Utd 1:0 Atalanta
  • 5% Man Utd 0:2 Atalanta
  • 4% Man Utd 3:0 Atalanta
  • 4% Man Utd 1:3 Atalanta
  • 4% Man Utd 3:2 Atalanta
  • 3% Man Utd 0:1 Atalanta
  • 2% Man Utd 4:1 Atalanta
  • 2% Man Utd 4:0 Atalanta
  • 1% Man Utd 5:0 Atalanta
  • 1% Man Utd 0:3 Atalanta
  • 1% Man Utd 2:3 Atalanta
  • 1% Man Utd 0:0 Atalanta
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Atalanta
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 Atalanta
  • 0% Man Utd 3:3 Atalanta
Compiled from 279 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Atalanta
Possession
56% 44%
Shots
22 13
Shots on Target
9 6
Corners
8 5
Fouls
10 12

Referee

Szymon Marciniak

Man Utd Lineup

Substitutes

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