Arsenal 1:3 Manchester United

Reddy Rederson · Jan 27, 2019

fishfingers15 said:
So, we are all good then?

When did I say he didn’t track back? I’ve haven’t mentioned tracking back at all, that’s the excuse that’s been given for this:

https://mobile.twitter.com/footbalistuff/status/1069176399481765888?lang=en

devilish · Jan 27, 2019

Reddy Rederson said:
None of which has even the slightest to do with what I’m talking about.

https://mobile.twitter.com/footbalistuff/status/1069176399481765888?lang=en

Enjoy. Jose has nothing to do with that. Not a single thing. Coaching has nothing to do with it either. Neither does tracking back, as the ball was being taken away from our goal towards the oppo goal. You can blame Jose for his shit tactics, his shit communication, his shit style. You can blame anyone but the players for the effort they put in. The don’t play for a manager, the play for the club, the fans and in pogbas case 290 grand a week. I don’t care how shit the manger is, how big a prick he is, the club and the fans always deserve a players best effort with zero excuses for anything less.

So you're basing yourself on one mistake? Jeez

Actually it has a lot to do with what I said. Pogba is brilliant but he's prone of making mistakes. That's not lack of effort but his style of play which tend to create magic but also the occasional mistake. That's why Allegri and Conte made sure to play him further up the pitch and to properly support him by surrounding him with players who can cover his arse. Scholes had flaws in his game too (ie he couldn't tackle) that's why SAF surrounded him with the likes of Keane, Butt, Park and Carrick who covered for Scholes weaknesses while allowing him to focus on what he does best. That's called good man management.

roonster09 · Jan 27, 2019

devilish said:
So you're basing yourself on one mistake? Jeez

Actually it has a lot to do with what I said. Pogba is brilliant but he's prone of making mistakes. That's not lack of effort but his style of play which tend to create magic but also the occasional mistake. That's why Allegri and Conte made sure to play him further up the pitch and to properly support him by surrounding him with players who can cover his arse. Scholes had flaws in his game too (ie he couldn't tackle) that's why SAF surrounded him with the likes of Keane, Butt, Park and Carrick who covered for Scholes weaknesses while allowing him to focus on what he does best. That's called good man management.

Yeah who knew football was a team game. Pogba giving away ball vs Southampton and not tracking means all his good performances in this season doesn't count. His superb effort playing everywhere on the pitch vs Newcastle when we won 3-2 means feck all. He even played next to CB in that game, covering entire pitch. Pogba playing entire game vs Leicester without any preseason and barely training also doesnt count. Also he was the only player who looked capable of playing for Juventus when we played them at OT, that also doesn't matter.

Reddy Rederson · Jan 27, 2019

roonster09 said:
Yeah who knew football was a team game. Pogba giving away ball vs Southampton and not tracking means all his good performances in this season doesn't count. His superb effort playing everywhere on the pitch vs Newcastle when we won 3-2 means feck all. He even played next to CB in that game, covering entire pitch. Pogba playing entire game vs Leicester without any preseason and barely training also doesnt count. Also he was the only player who looked capable of playing for Juventus when we played them at OT, that also doesn't matter.

I didn’t say any of that.

Reddy Rederson · Jan 27, 2019

devilish said:
So you're basing yourself on one mistake? Jeez

Actually it has a lot to do with what I said. Pogba is brilliant but he's prone of making mistakes. That's not lack of effort but his style of play which tend to create magic but also the occasional mistake. That's why Allegri and Conte made sure to play him further up the pitch and to properly support him by surrounding him with players who can cover his arse. Scholes had flaws in his game too (ie he couldn't tackle) that's why SAF surrounded him with the likes of Keane, Butt, Park and Carrick who covered for Scholes weaknesses while allowing him to focus on what he does best. That's called good man management.

Exactly what point do you think I was making? That wasn’t his only mistake, or his only time pissing about when he should have been doing the simple things. That’s what he was critised for, not because Jose told everyone he was shit. The idea that people wanted pogba benched or sold lasted no longer than a week or two at most. And it was based mostly on that game with a few other games furling the fire. The question of downing tools has been asked by almost everyone, from papers to pundits to fans.

And you’ll forgive me, but I have no idea what you’re going on about. This wasn’t a case of can’t, it was won’t/didn’t. He does track back, he can play further back as well. He was shoehorned into playing a cb for game we went all out in and he did very well. So your excuses don’t fly. He’s capable of doing all the things you are saying to defend him. He doesn’t need anyone around him to make him chase that ball. Was he downing tools? I’m not convinced, but there was a severe lack of effort going on at times, and that is why he was getting the shit he was.

So when people say “can you believe...”. Yes, yes I can. Because he played fecking gash sometimes and he got called out for it. So my question, why are we pretending he was fine? Why are we pretend that Jose was the only issue? He’s playing well now, cool. He’s earning his reputation back. Good for him. Doesn’t change the fact he was shit at times, and people said he was playing shit and said what they said.

devilish · Jan 27, 2019

Reddy Rederson said:
Exactly what point do you think I was making? That wasn’t his only mistake, or his only time pissing about when he should have been doing the simple things. That’s what he was critised for, not because Jose told everyone he was shit. The idea that people wanted pogba benched or sold lasted no longer than a week or two at most. And it was based mostly on that game with a few other games furling the fire. The question of downing tools has been asked by almost everyone, from papers to pundits to fans.

And you’ll forgive me, but I have no idea what you’re going on about. This wasn’t a case of can’t, it was won’t/didn’t. He does track back, he can play further back as well. He was shoehorned into playing a cb for game we went all out in and he did very well. So your excuses don’t fly. He’s capable of doing all the things you are saying to defend him. He doesn’t need anyone around him to make him chase that ball. Was he downing tools? I’m not convinced, but there was a severe lack of effort going on at times, and that is why he was getting the shit he was.

So when people say “can you believe...”. Yes, yes I can. Because he played fecking gash sometimes and he got called out for it. So my question, why are we pretending he was fine? Why are we pretend that Jose was the only issue? He’s playing well now, cool. He’s earning his reputation back. Good for him. Doesn’t change the fact he was shit at times, and people said he was playing shit and said what they said.

God only knows what point you're trying to make. @roonster09 and I tried to understand you and we both failed miserably. All I can tell you is that Pogba had been playing like that since forever. He's brilliant in what he does but he's defensively suspect. Its not because of lack of effort but its how his brain is wired. Many top players have serious flaws in their game like Scholes inability to tackle, Ronaldo's inability to track back or RVN's inability to notice that football is more then goal scoring

Now Conte tried to change him and failed and so did Allegri. At that point they adapted their football to his strengths and Pogba rewarded them by being brilliant in what he can do. We weren't in Juventus situation though. They took a brilliant player next to nothing and therefore they had to adapt to his skillset. Unlike them Mou had the choice not to accept those flaws and spend 90m on another player instead. It really that simple.

You don't spend 90m on a player only to expect him to suddenly change into a player he isn't. There again we all know how Mou think at this point. He see no problem spending ridiculous fees on players that fail to reach his expectations simply because he feels entitled to just go to the board and ask for more players on ridiculous fees again up until he gets it right. No remorse and no need to adapt his philosophy to fix his own mistakes whatsoever. This is not just about Pogba. He kept asking for new CBs despite spending 60m on Bailly and Lindelof and he also had the audacity to complain about our midfield lacking bite when he had spend 180m on CM. FFS we spent 50m on Fred and he barely ever played him.

Reddy Rederson · Jan 27, 2019

devilish said:
God only knows what point you're trying to make. @roonster09 and I tried to understand you and we both failed miserably. All I can tell you is that Pogba had been playing like that since forever. He's brilliant in what he does but he's defensively suspect. Its not because of lack of effort but its how his brain is wired. Many top players have serious flaws in their game like Scholes inability to tackle, Ronaldo's inability to track back or RVN's inability to notice that football is more then goal scoring

Now Conte tried to change him and failed and so did Allegri. At that point they adapted their football to his strengths and Pogba rewarded them by being brilliant in what he can do. We weren't in Juventus situation though. They took a brilliant player next to nothing and therefore they had to adapt to his skillset. Unlike them Mou had the choice not to accept those flaws and spend 90m on another player instead. It really that simple.

You don't spend 90m on a player only to expect him to suddenly change into a player he isn't. There again we all know how Mou think at this point. He see no problem spending ridiculous fees on players that fail to reach his expectations simply because he feels entitled to just go to the board and ask for more players on ridiculous fees again up until he gets it right. No remorse and no need to adapt his philosophy to fix his own mistakes whatsoever. This is not just about Pogba. He kept asking for new CBs despite spending 60m on Bailly and Lindelof and he also had the audacity to complain about our midfield lacking bite when he had spend 180m on CM. FFS we spent 50m on Fred and he barely ever played him.

IF you dont know then why to butt in to an on going conversation that ended long ago? Maybe you and the other guy should take the time to find out what the topic is before assuming one. Ill give you a brief version.

"cant believe people wanted pogba gone."

"Not like they didnt have their reasons"

"Yeah, they were idiots"

"Or they saw him kick that ball away and not chase after it"

Then you came in with tracking back etc. Whether they were right or wrong, people had reasons to be salty at pogba. And they were to do with his performances at that time. Whether you agree or not doesnt matter, the point was they had their reasons and not that they "had a lobotomy". For a couple of weeks he played far below his own abilities, and people took note and said what they said to varying degrees. It had nothing to do with Jose "brain washing" people.

devilish · Jan 27, 2019

Reddy Rederson said:
IF you dont know then why to butt in to an on going conversation that ended long ago? Maybe you and the other guy should take the time to find out what the topic is before assuming one. Ill give you a brief version.

"cant believe people wanted pogba gone."

"Not like they didnt have their reasons"

"Yeah, they were idiots"

"Or they saw him kick that ball away and not chase after it"

Then you came in with tracking back etc. Whether they were right or wrong, people had reasons to be salty at pogba. And they were to do with his performances at that time. Whether you agree or not doesnt matter, the point was they had their reasons and not that they "had a lobotomy". For a couple of weeks he played far below his own abilities, and people took note and said what they said to varying degrees. It had nothing to do with Jose "brain washing" people.

If you want to have a resume of how this sub topic started, well I was replying to @Loublaze comment that Pogba is class in my usual sarcastic way. Then @AngliaRed added his bid only for you to butt in. Believe me mate, I don't even know you existed prior to this post

Anyway Here's the trail

Loublaze said:
Pogba is class

devilish said:
To think some preferred fellaini to him

AngliaRed said:
People here wanted Mctominay to start and Pogba sold!

devilish said:
Its amazing how some translator is able to brainwash fans against their best players

Reddy Rederson said:
Only if you rewrite history. He was critiqued for his poor performances, what Jose said had nothing to do with it.

The rest was a mess were everyone was trying to figure out what you were talking about only to fail miserably.

Please note that no one was talking to you or about you. All we were talking is how fans can turn against a top player who was struggling in a system were almost everyone was struggling in simply because some clueless has been decided to use him as target practice.

Reddy Rederson · Jan 27, 2019

devilish said:
If you want to have a resume of how this sub topic started, well I was replying to @Loublaze comment that Pogba is class in my usual sarcastic way. Then @AngliaRed added his bid only for you to butt in. Believe me mate, I don't even know you existed prior to this post

Anyway Here's the trail

The rest was a mess were everyone was trying to figure out what you were talking about only to fail miserably.

Please note that no one was talking to you or about you. All we were talking is how fans can turn against a top player who was struggling in a system were almost everyone was struggling in simply because some clueless has been decided to use him as target practice.

You’re right, apologies. Got you confused with another guy. Anyway, point still stands. People had their reasons for being salty at pogba. You can agree with them or not, but they had thier reasons. The end. Now we can get on with our day. Have a good one.

devilish · Jan 27, 2019

Reddy Rederson said:
You’re right, apologies. Got you confused with another guy. Anyway, point still stands. People had their reasons for being salty at pogba. You can agree with them or not, but they had thier reasons. The end. Now we can get on with our day. Have a good one.

I understand that you are probably the typical Manchester United supporter who don't follow any other clubs closely. It probably means that you're either an avid supporter who can't be bothered what others do or else you've got an exciting life. So there's nothing to be ashamed for whatsoever. However, it also means that for most of your time you were blessed to only follow SAF who was a genius in the field.

People like myself who follow 2 leagues very closely know what it means seeing clubs being managed by flawed people, most of whom with huge egos and little talent to match. So let me throw my 2 cents worth.

If a player is performing badly in his natural role and in a team which is doing well then it usually the player's fault. If a player is performing badly in a team were most players are doing the same then its usually the manager's fault. If a player is bought for 90m only to be played in a role were he always sucked in and all the players around him are also doing shite then the manager needs to be hanged, drawn and quartered.

Mou kept asking to strengthen the same positions again and again, he turned against the very players he had previously brought in, he aired his employer's dirty laundry, he didn't even bother giving his new 50m signing a chance to impress and he even argued with Antonio Valencia who is the nicest person at OT. As Paul Scholes said, its mathematically impossible to argue with Antonio Valencia and we all know Paul Scholes's high standards regarding everything about Manchester United

Its evident that Mou had lost hope of being able to turn things around and was aiming to get sacked before shit hits fan and it falls straight all over his career. It also evident that most players weren't playing for him which may be a matter of criticism if only this guy hasn't lost Chelsea's and Real's dressing room as well. I mean surely we can't possible believe that Mou was right while all Real, Chelsea and Manchester United players were wrong?

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