Sir Alex Ferguson prepares to clear decks at Old Trafford

[Jinn]

When SAF announced his retirement all those years ago it was rumoured that Sven Erikson would take over utd. I think that was confirmed in an article i read recently. Could be wrong, i'm not 100% sure about that.

My point is that, when SAF announced his retirement, which of the current managers at the time would have filled his boots and was Erikson one of the candidates?

 

[Brophs]

Well, Fergie confirmed that Eriksson had been offered the job, so yeah, he was the main candidate.

 

[Hectic]

Yeah, what's with Moyes? He's another O'Neill for me, I can't understand why people want him either.
It's looking ever more likely to be Mourinho and I don't doubt his ability, I'm just worried he will be there for a couple of seasons and do one in a huff causing disruption like he does with all the clubs he's been at....

Moyes and O'Neill....I feel ill whenever I hear them mentioned as the next manager. I've talked to a lot of people who would love either of them, although especially Moyes to take over.

I can't fathom it.

 

[esmufc07]

Yeah, what's with Moyes? He's another O'Neill for me, I can't understand why people want him either.
It's looking ever more likely to be Mourinho and I don't doubt his ability, I'm just worried he will be there for a couple of seasons and do one in a huff causing disruption like he does with all the clubs he's been at....

People keep saying this, but everytime I ask them where he would go to if he came to United and left a couple of years later, I never get a reply. Where would he go? He's said he won't manage Barcelona, he's unlikely to go back to Italy, he may want to give the Bundesliga a go but so far as I'm aware he's never talked about that. What he has talked about is his love for English football, the English media, and the English fans, and it's clear to anybody with half a brain cell that when he does come back here it will be for a prolonged spell. He of course wants to manage his national side but not until he's 60 or so.

And he didn't leave Porto in a huff, he left them as European Champions. He left Chelsea in a huff as the owner was interfering in team affairs and brining in directors of football against his wishes. He didn't leave Inter in a huff, he left them having guided them to their most successful season ever, Benitez has since brought a fair amount of turmoil. At Madrid it again looks like interference from the top is annoying Mourinho, but it's hard to have any sympathy with him on this one because he must have surely expected that before he took the job.

Mourinho.

 

[esmufc07]

When SAF announced his retirement all those years ago it was rumoured that Sven Erikson would take over utd. I think that was confirmed in an article i read recently. Could be wrong, i'm not 100% sure about that.

My point is that, when SAF announced his retirement, which of the current managers at the time would have filled his boots and was Erikson one of the candidates?

Eriksson was a very good manager. I think Hitzfeld and Capello were also being mentioned at the time.

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Amusingly, none of the Pep/Jose Fanbois are prepared to answer the perfectly possible situation, what if we dont get either of them? Either or both of them could be happy where they are when the job becomes available.

 

[esmufc07]

Amusingly, none of the Pep/Jose Fanbois are prepared to answer the perfectly possible situation, what if we dont get either of them? Either or both of them could be happy where they are when the job becomes available.

Then we get behind whoever is the manager, we saw what happened with Hodgson at Liverpool when the manager isn't even give a chance by the fans.

 

[Cheltenham Red]

People keep saying this, but everytime I ask them where he would go to if he came to United and left a couple of years later, I never get a reply. Where would he go? He's said he won't manage Barcelona, he's unlikely to go back to Italy, he may want to give the Bundesliga a go but so far as I'm aware he's never talked about that. What he has talked about is his love for English football, the English media, and the English fans, and it's clear to anybody with half a brain cell that when he does come back here it will be for a prolonged spell. He of course wants to manage his national side but not until he's 60 or so.

And he didn't leave Porto in a huff, he left them as European Champions. He left Chelsea in a huff as the owner was interfering in team affairs and brining in directors of football against his wishes. He didn't leave Inter in a huff, he left them having guided them to their most successful season ever, Benitez has since brought a fair amount of turmoil. At Madrid it again looks like interference from the top is annoying Mourinho, but it's hard to have any sympathy with him on this one because he must have surely expected that before he took the job.

Mourinho.

Good post,I think the thing that will make Jose a huge sucess here if he comes apart from his obvious skills as a manager will be the fact he will be left alone to do his job.That also must be part of the attraction of coming here,along with the ego boost of following Fergie and managing the best club in the world.

 

[Fiskey]

The classic chicken and egg problems with managers. You don't want to give a guy with little experience of managing big clubs a big job, but how is anyone going to get experience of managing a big club without being given the chance.

For what its worth I think Moyes has done about a good a job as he could possibly have done at Everton. His transfer record is impeccable bordering on remarkable, he has brought through young players and has consistently finished towards the top end of the table, even managing to reach the champions league places with a team that had Marcus Bent as its lone striker. If anyone deserves a chance at a big club its him, whether we should take that chance is another matter entirely.

 

[esmufc07]

The classic chicken and egg problems with managers. You don't want to give a guy with little experience of managing big clubs a big job, but how is anyone going to get experience of managing a big club without being given the chance.

For what its worth I think Moyes has done about a good a job as he could possibly have done at Everton. His transfer record is impeccable bordering on remarkable, he has brought through young players and has consistently finished towards the top end of the table, even managing to reach the champions league places with a team that had Marcus Bent as its lone striker. If anyone deserves a chance at a big club its him, whether we should take that chance is another matter entirely.

What often gets overlooked however is that he did that finishing with 61 points. It was only for the complete ineptiude of Liverpool that season that they finished 4th. If Bolton win one more game they get CL football instead - does that mean Allardyce would have been deserving of a shot at the United job?

00/01 - 68
01/02 - 71
02/03 - 67
03/04 - 60
04/05 - 61
05/06 - 67
06/07 - 68
07/08 - 76
08/09 - 72
09/10 - 70

If you look, it usually takes a lot more points to secure 4th place. Any other season aside from Houllier's last one Moyes would be needing a lot more points to secure 4th spot.

 

[Fiskey]

What often gets overlooked however is that he did that finishing with 61 points. It was only for the complete ineptiude of Liverpool that season that they finished 4th. If Bolton win one more game they get CL football instead - does that mean Allardyce would have been deserving of a shot at the United job?

Don't really like those arguments, every season is relative and that season they were relatively the 4th best side in the country and for a squad such as Everton's at the time it was a remarkable achievement.

 

[Brophs]

People keep saying this, but everytime I ask them where he would go to if he came to United and left a couple of years later, I never get a reply. Where would he go? He's said he won't manage Barcelona, he's unlikely to go back to Italy, he may want to give the Bundesliga a go but so far as I'm aware he's never talked about that. What he has talked about is his love for English football, the English media, and the English fans, and it's clear to anybody with half a brain cell that when he does come back here it will be for a prolonged spell. He of course wants to manage his national side but not until he's 60 or so.

And he didn't leave Porto in a huff, he left them as European Champions. He left Chelsea in a huff as the owner was interfering in team affairs and brining in directors of football against his wishes. He didn't leave Inter in a huff, he left them having guided them to their most successful season ever, Benitez has since brought a fair amount of turmoil. At Madrid it again looks like interference from the top is annoying Mourinho, but it's hard to have any sympathy with him on this one because he must have surely expected that before he took the job.

Mourinho.

Good post. I think a lot has been made of his nomadic nature but the truth of the matter is that he hasn't been looking for a long term project (which he now seems to be suggesting he is) and the clubs themselves weren't suited to that sort of long term cycle.

Porto - He left when he became too big for them. Can't blame the guy for being ambitious. He moved to a better league.

Chelsea - Given the record with managers since he left you could argue that he did well to stay as long as he did. He was immensely successful and managed to deal with Abramovich in a way that no manager has since. Again, it wasn't a club set up to have a manager there for 10 years plus. It's pretty clear England is his spiritual home in footballing terms.

Inter - Not the most stable of clubs and yet he made/kept them successful and won the CL. He clearly didn't enjoy Italy (and made that known) so it's no surprise he left.

Real - Again, not a club inclined toward stability or patience. He looks to me like a bloke on a box-ticking exercise over there - win the league and complete the hat trick. I can't help feeling that he'll be off if we offer him the job.

When you hear and read journos who know him it's pretty clear he's pitching for the job at OT and that he wants to take on a 'legacy' job next. Whether the timings will suit both parties - if indeed we even want him - is another matter, but I wouldn't be damning him just yet as a short term appointment. He may well surprise us all if he gets the job. He's one of the most astute, adaptable coaches there has been and he will be given a clear understanding of the club and its traditions and demands should he be the chosen replacement.

 

[mariachi-19]

Mourinhos job when Ferguson steps down. Theres no one else who has the ego to think they can do better. He'd be perfect and i'm sure he'll greatly appreciate being able to manage the club without anyone holding him back. He'll be here for a while in my opinion.

Its not really to do with the ego to think he can do better, its the ego to withstand the almighty shit tonne of pressure that will be placed on him.

 

[finneh]

There is a big difference between managing a big club and managing United. People like Moyes/Coyle/O'Neill are so unproven it'd be a remarkably naive appointment (particularly as we will be entrusting them with 100's of millions in fees and wages even over a couple of seasons).

All of the above managers are one very successful job away from being United calibre. If they went to a Champions League club in the mould of Valencia/Bayern/Juventus/Lyon or brought their current club to that level, outperforming their expected club level in the process (ie quarters/semis/finals of Champions League and consistant domestic trophies), then they could be considered.

 

[PDA1234]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with all our players. Also, why do you want Moyes to be the manager? While he does have a budget of £4 and a bag of minstrels(possibly stolen), he's not proven to be very consistent or successful. I think Jose is a bit of an inevitability to take over after Fergie calls it quits. I'd love for him to be back in England, and he's the best available. He'd be given the free reign he wants and would play better football than Moyes.

Moyes strikes me as an alchemist in the SAF mode. Remember everyone's thoughts about Berba when he first arrived.

The only reason why Moyes hasn't won anything is because he's never had a platform big enough and United would certainly provide that.

Preston and Everton have both demonstrated his ability to produce teams that punch above their weight.

 

[PDA1234]

There is a big difference between managing a big club and managing United. People like Moyes/Coyle/O'Neill are so unproven it'd be a remarkably naive appointment (particularly as we will be entrusting them with 100's of millions in fees and wages even over a couple of seasons).

All of the above managers are one very successful job away from being United calibre. If they went to a Champions League club in the mould of Valencia/Bayern/Juventus/Lyon or brought their current club to that level, outperforming their expected club level in the process (ie quarters/semis/finals of Champions League and consistant domestic trophies), then they could be considered.

Fair point.

Mourinho has made no secret of his admiration for SAF.

How about Eriksson as a longshot?

 

[Fiskey]

Its difficult to know what to do if you're a young manager if you have real ambitions to get to the very top of the profession. If you jump from club to club being successful (the strategy which I think Hughes and Bruce have in mind) then yes you prove yourself to be competent but perhaps never show you're abilities to bring through young players on a regular basis and maybe don't achieve a squad truly of your own vision.

If you do a Moyes and stay at one club long term, you can create a squad, show that you can bring through young players but people may think down to other things and not give you as much credit as you deserve.

The only two ways I can think of possibly getting to the top is to one be absolutely outstanding and win the league with an Everton, which is probably bordering on impossible in this day and age or do the Mclaren or Hodgson and accept less money for managing abroad and prove your worth by winning league titles in lesser leagues and build your way back. Anyhow its difficult.

 

[finneh]

Fair point.

Mourinho has made no secret of his admiration for SAF.

How about Eriksson as a longshot?

I've always been a fan of Eriksson, although again I think he is in the same category as the above. It'll be interesting what he does with Leicester, if he got them into the Premier League and kept them there I'd be impressed.

 

[PDA1234]

Mourinhos job when Ferguson steps down. Theres no one else who has the ego to think they can do better. He'd be perfect and i'm sure he'll greatly appreciate being able to manage the club without anyone holding him back. He'll be here for a while in my opinion.

You may well be correct, but its a risk whoever is chosen.

 

[decorativeed]

The classic chicken and egg problems with managers. You don't want to give a guy with little experience of managing big clubs a big job, but how is anyone going to get experience of managing a big club without being given the chance.

For what its worth I think Moyes has done about a good a job as he could possibly have done at Everton. His transfer record is impeccable bordering on remarkable, he has brought through young players and has consistently finished towards the top end of the table, even managing to reach the champions league places with a team that had Marcus Bent as its lone striker. If anyone deserves a chance at a big club its him, whether we should take that chance is another matter entirely.

Per Koldrup, Andy Van Der Meyde, James Beatty, Dinyar Bilialetdinov? Beattie seemed to be the start of Moyes's fad of paying a lot of money for a striker only to lose faith in them after a year, bringing another in and repeating. Andy Johnson and Yakubu being more recent ones. Also has a habit of signing promising looking young players but never actually playing them. Likes to buy in improvements for players, such as right-back Tony Hibbert but ends up playing them all at the same time. Couldn't tell that Joseph Yobo was utter shite and played him every week for five years.

He has bought a good few players that were absolute bargains though.

There's a good write-up on Moyes's plus and minus points here: ToffeeWeb - The Club - Managers - David Moyes

 

[redwhiteblack]

You may well be correct, but its a risk whoever is chosen.

But that's a bit like saying, "crossing the road is a risk, and injecting myself with bleach is also a risk - they are both risks". When in reality one is a necessary occurrence and the other is suicidal.

It totally disregards the very crucial factor of the varying degrees of risk.

 

[Fiskey]

Per Koldrup, Andy Van Der Meyde, James Beatty, Dinyar Bilialetdinov? Beattie seemed to be the start of Moyes's fad of paying a lot of money for a striker only to lose faith in them after a year, bringing another in and repeating. Andy Johnson and Yakubu being more recent ones. Also has a habit of signing promising looking young players but never actually playing them. Likes to buy in improvements for players, such as right-back Tony Hibbert but ends up playing them all at the same time. Couldn't tell that Joseph Yobo was utter shite and played him every week for five years.

He has bought a good few players that were absolute bargains though.

There's a good write-up on Moyes's plus and minus points here: ToffeeWeb - The Club - Managers - David Moyes

He's been there for 8 years so there was bound to be some duds and of the one's you mention Koldrup was sold for minimal loss, Beattie was decent and again sold for minimal loss, Billy could still be a good player, Van Der Meyde was talented, just got fat, Johnson was sold at a profit after decent service and Yakubu was decent as well. If those are you're failed transfers after 8 years you're not doing too badly.

Add to that Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard and Distin who were all brilliant signings for much less than their current market value. His transfer record in my opinion is unsurpassed.

 

[PDA1234]

Its difficult to know what to do if you're a young manager if you have real ambitions to get to the very top of the profession. If you jump from club to club being successful (the strategy which I think Hughes and Bruce have in mind) then yes you prove yourself to be competent but perhaps never show you're abilities to bring through young players on a regular basis and maybe don't achieve a squad truly of your own vision.

If you do a Moyes and stay at one club long term, you can create a squad, show that you can bring through young players but people may think down to other things and not give you as much credit as you deserve.

The only two ways I can think of possibly getting to the top is to one be absolutely outstanding and win the league with an Everton, which is probably bordering on impossible in this day and age or do the Mclaren or Hodgson and accept less money for managing abroad and prove your worth by winning league titles in lesser leagues and build your way back. Anyhow its difficult.

30 or 40 years ago it might have happened with Everton but not now.

In order to change the game now you need *very* deep pockets.

 

[PDA1234]

He's been there for 8 years so there was bound to be some duds and of the one's you mention Koldrup was sold for minimal loss, Beattie was decent and again sold for minimal loss, Billy could still be a good player, Van Der Meyde was talented, just got fat, Johnson was sold at a profit after decent service and Yakubu was decent as well. If those are you're failed transfers after 8 years you're not doing too badly.

Add to that Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard and Distin who were all brilliant signings for much less than their current market value. His transfer record in my opinion is unsurpassed.

He'd have done the same with Rooney given the chance.

 

[Fiskey]

The most recently available figures for each club are as follows:

Chelsea - £149m (excluding £12m of exceptional termination payments) - 08/09

City - £133m - 09/10

United - £132m - 09/10

Arsenal - £111m - 09/10

Liverpool - £102m - 08/09

Newcastle - £71m - 08/09 - Cretins

Tottenham - £67m - 09/10

Villa - £61m - 08/09

West Ham - £60m - 08/09

Sunderland - £50m - 08/09

Everton - £49m - 08/09

Bolton - £46m - 09/10

Blackburn - £46m - 08/09

Fulham - £46m - 08/09

Birmingham - £44m - 09/10

Wigan - £42m - 08/09

Stoke - £30m - 08/09

Wolves - £17m - 08/09 (They were still in the Championship that season). 09/10 estimate - £30m

West Brom - £25m - 08/09

Blackpool - £15m - 10/11 estimate

Looking at this, then if you add the fact his net spend over 8 years at Everton has been something like £15 million Moyes really has done an almost unbelievable job at Everton in managing to keep them regularly competing around the top of the league. He deserves more credit than he's been getting in this thread, and I think to equate him with O'Neil is a bit on an insult to his capabilities.

 

[bazalini]

I'll personally drive to Olt Trafford and drive Gary Neville home - to make sure Mr Average is never allowed back at Old Trafford

 

[towcester_red]

Eriksson

Mourinho is the only person I believe that could do the job right now if it became available.

Dont think Guardiola would want too, I mean why would he? I know we are one of the biggest clubs in the world, but we are a step down from what he has at the moment.

Whether Mourinho stayed 1 year or 10, id give him the job when it becomes available, if he wants it.

 

[decorativeed]

He's been there for 8 years so there was bound to be some duds and of the one's you mention Koldrup was sold for minimal loss, Beattie was decent and again sold for minimal loss, Billy could still be a good player, Van Der Meyde was talented, just got fat, Johnson was sold at a profit after decent service and Yakubu was decent as well. If those are you're failed transfers after 8 years you're not doing too badly.

Add to that Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Jagielka, Baines, Cahill, Neville, Howard and Distin who were all brilliant signings for much less than their current market value. His transfer record in my opinion is unsurpassed.

I think Distan has been pretty poor to be honest. The main thing with Moyes, like I say is that when he has spent a significant amount on a player, he doesn't seem to have as much patience with them. Yakubu was good until he got injured, and when I've seen him this season, he generally has looked pretty good. However, this season as Everton have struggled for goals (and just as Cahill disappears to the asia cup), he loans him out to Leicester and makes do with an injury ravaged Saha and inexperienced Beckford. Bizarre. I really struggle to understand some of his thinking at times. Need a winner? Bring on a third right back, that'll do the trick...

You can't argue with his spending, just what he does with some of the players. He's done well to get the money he has for some players and turn a neat profit, but they haven't really done enough on the pitch for me.

 

[PDA1234]

But that's a bit like saying, "crossing the road is a risk, and injecting myself with bleach is also a risk - they are both risks". When in reality one is a necessary occurrence and the other is suicidal.

It totally disregards the very crucial factor of the varying degrees of risk.

Fair point. But there are *three* dimensions of risk - impact, probability of occurrence but also a time dimension.

I don't think Mourinho is a long term bet in the way that SAF has been.

Moyes would be much more likely to stay.

 

[towcester_red]

I'll personally drive to Olt Trafford and drive Gary Neville home - to make sure Mr Average is never allowed back at Old Trafford

Good one.

 

[Cal?]

The only reason Moyes is even mentioned as a possible candidate seems to be his nationality, we've had great success under two Scots, let's just get any Scottish manager around.

The fact is the United job when Sir Alex steps down will be much much bigger than when Sir Alex himself got the job. The only viable candidate right now at the right age is Jose Mourinho.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

This thread really got focused on the manager part of the article.

 

[PDA1234]

Eriksson

Why?

He has an excellent track record at club level.

 

[Fiskey]

You can't argue with his spending, just what he does with some of the players. He's done well to get the money he has for some players and turn a neat profit, but they haven't really done enough on the pitch for me.

The only reason Moyes is even mentioned as a possible candidate seems to be his nationality, we've had great success under two Scots, let's just get any Scottish manager around.

The fact is the United job when Sir Alex steps down will be much much bigger than when Sir Alex himself got the job. The only viable candidate right now at the right age is Jose Mourinho.

Bearing in mind the wage table and Everton's finishes under Moyes I think he's done a brilliant job on the pitch. Do you really think he could have done better? Yes it would have been nice to win a cup along way but he got beaten in the final to Chelsea so can't really blame him for that.

He's not only being mentioned because he's Scottish, he's being mentioned because his track record suggests he deserves a chance with greater resources. With Everton he's bought blokes for under £3 million who have gone on to be top 6 standard, who knows if he was given £10 million he may get guys who are world class standard, who knows? A move to us may well be an over promotion too soon, if the rumours about Villa wanting him after O'Neil I think it may have been a good move for him to go there, and see what he could do with those resources. However the fact remains he deserves to be on the longlist, possibly even the shortlist.

 

[Cal?]

Bearing in mind the wage table and Everton's finishes under Moyes I think he's done a brilliant job on the pitch. Do you really think he could have done better? Yes it would have been nice to win a cup along way but he got beaten in the final to Chelsea so can't really blame him for that.

He's not only being mentioned because he's Scottish, he's being mentioned because his track record suggests he deserves a chance with greater resources. With Everton he's bought blokes for under £3 million who have gone on to be top 6 standard, who knows if he was given £10 million he may get guys who are world class standard, who knows? A move to us may well be an over promotion too soon, if the rumours about Villa wanting him after O'Neil I think it may have been a good move for him to go there, and see what he could do with those resources. However the fact remains he deserves to be on the longlist, possibly even the shortlist.

I'm sorry, but our status as one of the top 3 clubs in the world means we need one of the top 3 managers in the world.

Moyes would be lucky to make a top 20 list.

There a plenty of examples of manager over-performing given resources available, but only very few of those make it to the very top.

 

[towcester_red]

Why?

He has an excellent track record at club level.

Never really fancied him personally.

I dont want somebody who was effectively sacked by City as our next manager.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I will get slated for this but I want Joachim Löw, love the way he has Germany playing football.

 

[Cal?]

I will get slated for this but I want Joachim Löw, love the way he has Germany playing football.

No more ridiculous than Moyes, in fact, probably less so...

 

[Fiskey]

I'm sorry, but our status as one of the top 3 clubs in the world means we need one of the top 3 managers in the world.

Moyes would be lucky to make a top 20 list.

There a plenty of examples of manager over-performing given resources available, but only very few of those make it to the very top.

My point would be that we don't know if he's one of the top three managers in the world as he hasn't been given the chance to prove it. He's done amazingly well at Everton, I doubt any manager in the world could have done better, and deserves an opportunity with more resources at his disposal.

The perfect job for him if you could take the rivalry out of it would be the Liverpool job, if I was Henry I would go hammer and tongs to get him.

Edit: And who could you say in the world has over performed as consistently as he has with the given resources.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

No more ridiculous than Moyes, in fact, probably less so...

Well he's proved himself at the very higehst level so yeah I'd say less ridiculous than Moyes in that respect. It's the whole German thing that may be difficult to get around.