Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[MadDogg]

I don’t just wanna hammer our players constantly but the basics and the bare minimum is, if you run forward, you’ve gotta get back even quicker.

Something that Dalot did do a lot last season. He actually saved our arses countless times by being the one to get back and put in the last second tackle after the opposition broke through our otherwise slow and porous backline. This despite Dalot also being the one who was asked to move forward either out wide or into the midfield, so the amount of work he was doing last season was extremely impressive (almost certainly the most in the team by some distance). Realistically every player will have moments where they tune out; for instance I can think of times that Amad, Mazraoui and Dorgu already have done similar. Evra certainly did it as well (especially in his last three or four seasons it happened a lot).

Right from the start of this season though it was noticeable that Dalot did seem a bit lazier at getting back and was getting caught out more, so it's a fair criticism this season. However I don't like the trend where a lot of people are making out that his current form is how he's always been.

 

[romufc]

Thats a very reasonable take but I'd still keep my awareness high. Our team is quite a lot of players away from a team of 11 world beaters. At this point, becoming a functional team is the first waypoint to pass. Dalot has a decent reputation right now and if there might be an offer, we should definitely consider it. Now is not the time to sit on players just for the bench. We just aren't in a position to afford that. But overall, I think, we'd have the same approach, I wouldn't offer him around, but if a very good offer comes in, we definitely should consider it.

Agreed. In my opinion, there is no one in the Manutd squad that if a reasonable offer came, I would lose any sleep over. So say a Milam or Juve said, £40m, I am taking that all day long for Dalot. Like you said, I don't think the club will go out its way to find a buyer, only if one came.

 

[tomaldinho1]

To be fair, If you watch back the city goal it’s actually hard to find a shot of him getting back, it’s pathetically slow, you see him basically walking into shot at the last second if you rewatch them on YouTube with the classic TV view, Either way, Grealish was being picked up by someone covering for Dalot. So the least he could have done was sprint back in to help his teammate out or pick up the spare man (Bernardo).

I don’t just wanna hammer our players constantly but the basics and the bare minimum is, if you run forward, you’ve gotta get back even quicker.
Garnacho is another one who’s clever at acting ‘busy’, it’s easy to see through when you know what they are doing.
Similar to how McTominay was a phenomenal hider away from home against the top 6.

I think Garnacho does put a shift in generally defensively, for a forward he's better than most. I will disagree there.
McT I agree but it wasn't his choice, I don't think he shied away from responsibility he just wasn't good enough. I remember a few years ago on here there was a discussion on this specifically (him hiding from passes/going missing) and the thought process was that he was a great example of the lag you see in academy tactics/training. All our guys of that kind of age coming through the academy grew up in a much more direct, counter attacking system - whenever we tried to play more passing heavy games he struggled massively with positioning, he'd always be asking for the ball in places it was so unlikely to reach him - the opposite to someone like Donny who would come and show for all kinds of little inside passes that seemed pointless and our players would often go more direct or just move the ball back to other way.

 

[sunama]

He still has 11 league games to go so it's probably too soon to just go full on youth mode. But with 5-6 games left and nothing to play for I hope we see a very young team given a proper run out.

He won't do that.
Why?
Because if he goes youth mode, we could finish really low down the table. That plan might see him get fired in the Summer, which wouldn't be good for anybody.
Any manager who works for this club is expected to finish as high up the table as possible.

 

[Bebe]

Something that Dalot did do a lot last season. He actually saved our arses countless times by being the one to get back and put in the last second tackle after the opposition broke through our otherwise slow and porous backline. This despite Dalot also being the one who was asked to move forward either out wide or into the midfield, so the amount of work he was doing last season was extremely impressive (almost certainly the most in the team by some distance). Realistically every player will have moments where they tune out; for instance I can think of times that Amad, Mazraoui and Dorgu already have done similar. Evra certainly did it as well (especially in his last three or four seasons it happened a lot).

Right from the start of this season though it was noticeable that Dalot did seem a bit lazier at getting back and was getting caught out more, so it's a fair criticism this season. However I don't like the trend where a lot of people are making out that his current form is how he's always been.

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

 

[DSG]

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

Ugh. If he’s one of our best transfers post SAF, kill me now…

He barely played his first couple years, was sent out on loan. He came back and was abysmal defensively when he played. Ten Hag’s one decent achievement was turning him into a decent FB the season we came 3rd. There are at least 8 RBs in the league I’d rather have than Dalot. That said, he’s never injured…

He’s kind of the poster child for Man Utd mediocrity in my opinion. He fills a need, but that’s about it.

 

[DJ_21]

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

But despite that he still lacks quality.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

Are you for real? One of our best transfers post Fergie? How low can we go.

He is a nice utility player to have in the squad to fill some gaps if players are injured or suspended. He’s always available because he’s never injured, that’s also nice and makes him a reliable player. I don’t believe for one minute he will ever be a good starting player in a team that hopefully some day will play for prizes again. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad player but he’s also not the right wingback for this system. Right wingback is a big priority this summer to make the system of Amorim really work.

 

[Vidooq]

No wonder we are where we are with Dalot being one of our best transfers post Fergie.

He has one exceptional quality, and that is availability. Can't drible, can't cross, and often has concentration lapses that cost us. In a title winning team, he would be a squad player.

 

[Tallis]

No wonder we are where we are with Dalot being one of our best transfers post Fergie.

He has one exceptional quality, and that is availability. Can't drible, can't cross, and often has concentration lapses that cost us. In a title winning team, he would be a squad player.

I don’t disagree with that. But tittle winning team do need those squad players with great availability and versatility who can fill gaps in the squad. We can use him as a backup RWB, LWB, LCB, RCB. That makes him almost a very valuable squad player imo.

 

[DJ_21]

Are you for real? One of our best transfers post Fergie? How low can we go.

He is a nice utility player to have in the squad to fill some gaps if players are injured or suspended. He’s always available because he’s never injured, that’s also nice and makes him a reliable player. I don’t believe for one minute he will ever be a good starting player in a team that hopefully some day will play for prizes again. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad player but he’s also not the right wingback for this system. Right wingback is a big priority this summer to make the system of Amorim really work.

Ye this didn’t make sense. Bruno is by far the best signing since Fergie and he offers us availability every single week and puts in the performances every single week.

 

[userman]

Ye this didn’t make sense. Bruno is by far the best signing since Fergie and he offers us availability every single week and puts in the performances every single week.

Surely Dalot is one of our best purchases post SAF (not necessarily great competition though). Bought for £20m and still on low wages comparatively with most other purchases, has played +200 matches, still 26 and would be a fine squad option for the next years if not sold for a profit.

 

[JE-365]

That’s an awful lot of words to still not address my main point, which is that Dalot and Mazaraoui’s quality on the ball when in possession is not good enough. If you can’t see how that limits us as a team then I’m not sure how I can help you.

As for those heat maps - thanks. Really helps illustrate my point. The difference between them are negligible, except for the fact that with new personnel at RWB would have a bit more attacking thrust on that flank. Which is what we’ve very obviously been lacking.

I have addressed your point. If you still find my post too complicated for you to understand that I have actually addressed it then there is nothing else I can do for you. Best thing is that agree to disagree and watch the games because Amorim has recently deployed inverted wingback role to give Garnacho more freedom to express himself on the right.

 

[DRJosh]

Amongst our average players, I’d rate MCT as a higher calibre player than Dalot who had a greater impact on the team but the latter is a decent utility player at our current level.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

Wrong, he is garbage.

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

Amongst our average players, I’d rate MCT as a higher calibre player than Dalot who had a greater impact on the team but the latter is a decent utility player at our current level.

How MCT made it as a midfielder for a club like United back then baffles me.

Does our academy teach how to turn on the ball??

 

[Zumbi]

I have addressed your point. If you still find my post too complicated for you to understand that I have actually addressed it then there is nothing else I can do for you. Best thing is that agree to disagree and watch the games because Amorim has recently deployed inverted wingback role to give Garnacho more freedom to express himself on the right.

Lots of words ≠ complexity.

You started off by arguing: “All he does now is to flip them around by having the right side no 10 to move wide while his right wingback to move inside.”

And

“we have Garnacho and Amad who prefer to drift wide not stay inside, while we have Dalot and Mazraoui who prefer to drift inside. If we have Garnacho or Amad on the right sided 10, then to compliment them we need inverted right wingback.”

Then you spent several more pages waffling on about inverted RWBs.

Then you concluded by posting heat maps that showed the exact opposite of the thing you had spent pages arguing - because those heat maps very clearly showed Dalot hugging the right flank and providing the width whilst Garnacho’s showed him drifting towards the goal. Which is unsurprising of course, because both Amad and Garnacho are known for wanting to drift inside towards goal, despite you trying to claim the opposite.

You’ve played a blinder, just not for yourself.

Meanwhile my point the whole time has simply been that wherever they’re positioned as RWBs, they don’t provide the requisite threat and quality that we’re so clearly missing in attack from that position.

 

[JE-365]

Lots of words ≠ complexity.

You started off by arguing: “All he does now is to flip them around by having the right side no 10 to move wide while his right wingback to move inside.”

And

“we have Garnacho and Amad who prefer to drift wide not stay inside, while we have Dalot and Mazraoui who prefer to drift inside. If we have Garnacho or Amad on the right sided 10, then to compliment them we need inverted right wingback.”

Then you spent several more pages waffling on about inverted RWBs.

Then you concluded by posting heat maps that showed the exact opposite of the thing you had spent pages arguing - because those heat maps very clearly showed Dalot hugging the right flank and providing the width whilst Garnacho’s showed him drifting towards the goal. Which is unsurprising of course, because both Amad and Garnacho are known for wanting to drift inside towards goal, despite you trying to claim the opposite.

You’ve played a blinder, just not for yourself.

Meanwhile my point the whole time has simply been that wherever they’re positioned as RWBs, they don’t provide the requisite threat and quality that we’re so clearly missing in attack from that position.

Two main things you clearly misinterpreted what I said:

1. You misinterpreted what I meant by providing the width to ‘’hugging the width’’.
   • I never once said the word of ‘’hugging the width’’ in our conversation but you assumed when I said providing the width means ‘’hugging the width’’. Providing the width means providing threat in the wide area, not the same thing as hugging the width. Hugging the width doesn’t provide threat. Providing threat means the player penetrates through to the final third from the width. That’s why I said ‘’We should use Dalot and Mazraoui as inverted RWB instead, while playing Amad or Garnacho as wide forward on the right to provide threat on the right flank. ‘’
2. I never say inverted wingback won’t be hugging the width at all. But you misinterpreted me saying ‘’drift inside’’ that the player will not hugging the width and will always stay inside. Football is not rigid. Players will still exchange position to occupy other spaces.

The heat map (see below picture) proves my point that our right wingback shouldn’t operate the same way as how our left wingback operate during the attacking phase. That’s because during the attacking phase, Amorim is using Garnacho to operate the same way as how our left wingback operate on the right flank. Amorim using him like that because that’s Garnacho’s strength. Hence why, I believe the inverted wingback is required to provide this balance to allow our natural winger on the right side to express themselves. Inverted wingback compliments Garnacho/Amad’s strength, it doesn’t change Amorim’s system, and it compliments our limited budget to allow us to concentrate other areas especially focus on the backbone of the team

 

[Zumbi]

Two main things you clearly misinterpreted what I said:

1. You misinterpreted what I meant by providing the width to ‘’hugging the width’’.
   • I never once said the word of ‘’hugging the width’’ in our conversation but you assumed when I said providing the width means ‘’hugging the width’’. Providing the width means providing threat in the wide area, not the same thing as hugging the width. Hugging the width doesn’t provide threat. Providing threat means the player penetrates through to the final third from the width. That’s why I said ‘’We should use Dalot and Mazraoui as inverted RWB instead, while playing Amad or Garnacho as wide forward on the right to provide threat on the right flank. ‘’
2. I never say inverted wingback won’t be hugging the width at all. But you misinterpreted me saying ‘’drift inside’’ that the player will not hugging the width and will always stay inside. Football is not rigid. Players will still exchange position to occupy other spaces.

The heat map (see below picture) proves my point that our right wingback shouldn’t operate the same way as how our left wingback operate during the attacking phase. That’s because during the attacking phase, Amorim is using Garnacho to operate the same way as how our left wingback operate on the right flank. Amorim using him like that because that’s Garnacho’s strength. Hence why, I believe the inverted wingback is required to provide this balance to allow our natural winger on the right side to express themselves. Inverted wingback compliments Garnacho/Amad’s strength, it doesn’t change Amorim’s system, and it compliments our limited budget to allow us to concentrate other areas especially focus on the backbone of the team

No. You specifically claimed that Amorim was using Dalot and Mazraoui as inverted WBs because they prefer to drift inside whilst Amad and Garnacho prefer to drift wide.

That doesn’t really stack up because Amad and Garnacho are the ones who like to drift inside towards goal. Neither of them are “natural wingers” like you suggest - they both want to drift in rather than get to the byline. The heat maps show that. And the “inverted” player (Dalot) has far lighter spots in the inverted areas than either Dorgu or Garnacho on those maps. The few spots you claim to be Dalot “inverting” are less pronounced that Dorgu’s are, and are, by the looks of it at least in the box, most likely just from corner or set piece positions. You could have just as easily drawn lots of blue lines pointing at “inverted” spots on each of the other heat maps to make the opposite point. And that’s not to say Dalot doesn’t invert at times. I just think you are greatly overstating how well he complements Garnacho and Amad and how that relates to our longer term strategy and transfer plans.

And of course players change position. The more fluid we are in attack the better. There are lots of times when Dalot is on the inside of Garnacho, amd there are lots of times Dalot is on the outside of Garnacho, as it should be. But that again relates to my main point, which you repeatedly fail to address, that whether inside or outside, neither Dalot nor Mazraoui provide the requisite quality or threat or penetration in possession that would make our right side more effective, and provide the likes of Amad and Garnacho with more space to operate in. But you refuse to engage with or address that point in any substantive way. Instead you just hide behind these contrived arguments about “inverting” and “balance”, whilst ignoring one of the most glaring deficiencies in our current set up, as well as the glaring limitations that Dalot and Mazraoui show when playing as WBs (inverted or not).

This notion that we only need one player on each flank who is capable of carrying the ball is also bizarre. We’re short on players who can break the lines by doing this, and Amorim is known to like athletic, winger type WBs that are versatile enough to beat a player inside or outside on either flank, and do so in tandem with their 10 to create scoring opportunities. And I can’t see him abandoning that long term to facilitate more limited players like Dalot, who regularly stunt our attacking plays either through poor decision making or lack of ability.

 

[DRJosh]

Is this still a thread on Amorim?

 

[Ace Krampus]

Is this still a thread on Amorim?

International break, when the cat's away, etc.

 

[JE-365]

No. You specifically claimed that Amorim was using Dalot and Mazraoui as inverted WBs because they prefer to drift inside whilst Amad and Garnacho prefer to drift wide.

That does not stack up because Amad and Garnacho are the ones who like to drift inside towards goal. Neither Amad nor Garnacho are “natural wingers” that look to get to the byline. The heat maps literally show that. The “inverted” player (Dalot) has far lighter spots in the inverted areas than either Dorgu or Garnacho on those maps. The few spots you claim to be Dalot “inverting” are much less pronounced that Dorgu’s are, and are, by the looks of it at least in the final third, most likely just from corner or set piece positions.

It doesn’t stack up because you are ignoring all the stuffs I have mentioned and only use one sentence.

If you didn’t ignore all the other stuffs I have mentioned, you would know that what I meant by drift wide is not the same as hugging the width, drift wide is also means beating players from wide area to inside because I already explained this to you many times. I even specifically mentioned this already in 16th March twice (see below for the quotes and the two links) to use or to give freedom for Amad/Garnacho to beat players from wide area to inside.

‘’When Amad and Garnacho played in the L10 or R10, they tend to drift wide. It’s their nature of play because they are wingers, therefore instead of using Dalot/Maz to beat players in the wide area or from wide area to inside, we should use Amad/Garnacho instead. ‘’
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/geo...ll-go-to-chelsea-in-2026.486737/post-33056252

‘’As inverted wingback, their attacking responsibility becomefar less, and they will have less responsibility to try to beat man, which is why I mentioned that this also suits to their strength and weakness. And this compliments to Garnachoand Amad by giving them more freedom to drift wide and beat players either to inside or wide.’’
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/geo...ll-go-to-chelsea-in-2026.486737/post-33056618

The heat map matches what I described that during attacking transition both Garnacho & Dorgu shares similar heat map. Garnacho drifts wide to receive a pass and then beat players (and I have mentioned ‘’beat players from wide to inside’’).

And of course players change position. The more fluid we are in attack the better. But that again relates to my main point, which you repeatedly fail to address, that neither Dalot nor Mazraoui provide the requisite quality or threat or penetration in possession that would make our right side more effective, and provide Amad and Garnacho with more space to operate in. But you refuse to engage with or address that point in any substantive way. Instead you just hide behind these contrived arguments about “inverting” and “balance”, whilst ignoring the glaring deficiencies that are apparent in our current set up, as well as the glaring limitations that Dalot and Mazraoui show when playing as WBs (inverted or not).

The RCB and midfielder like Ugarte will also need to change position. Yet, you want Mazraoui to play the RCB despite of your comment above. If you don’t expect the RCB and Ugarte to be the main source of our attack to provide Amad/Garnacho with more space to operate in, the same thing I have been explaining to you that It’s bizarre if you expect the manager to use inverted wingback to be the main source of our attack like what you described in your comment above.

I have addressed this point of yours by explaining to you multiple times the role of inverted wingback and I’m not wasting my time to repeat it again because you don’t get it. You view inverted wingback to be like playmaker and attacking wingback, but I don’t view inverted wingback like that as the main objective. Agree to disagree.

This notion that we should only have one player on each flank who is capable of carrying the ball is also bizarre. We are short on players who can break the lines by doing this, and Amorim is known to like athletic, winger type WBs that are versatile enough to go inside or outside on either flank, and can do that in tandem with their 10. And I can’t see him abandoning that long term to facilitate more limited players like Dalot, who regularly stunt our attacking plays either through poor decision making or lack of ability.

That’s your assumption. If you actually read again what I said, I have explained many points why I suggested to use inverted wingback and one of them is to buy ourselves time so we can focus more on other areas in this summer and improve the backbone of the team first. We aren’t going to solve all problems in one summer because we have limited budget, therefore we also need to know how to use or get the best out of the rest of the squad not just pretend that we have lot of money to spend.

 

[Waywestofthere]

Ruben. What a guy. Pretty bad sandwich though.

 

[Zumbi]

It doesn’t stack up because you are ignoring all the stuffs I have mentioned and only use one sentence.

If you didn’t ignore all the other stuffs I have mentioned, you would know that what I meant by drift wide is not the same as hugging the width, drift wide is also means beating players from wide area to inside because I already explained this to you many times. I even specifically mentioned this already in 16th March twice (see below for the quotes and the two links) to use or to give freedom for Amad/Garnacho to beat players from wide area to inside.

‘’When Amad and Garnacho played in the L10 or R10, they tend to drift wide. It’s their nature of play because they are wingers, therefore instead of using Dalot/Maz to beat players in the wide area or from wide area to inside, we should use Amad/Garnacho instead. ‘’
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/geo...ll-go-to-chelsea-in-2026.486737/post-33056252

‘’As inverted wingback, their attacking responsibility becomefar less, and they will have less responsibility to try to beat man, which is why I mentioned that this also suits to their strength and weakness. And this compliments to Garnachoand Amad by giving them more freedom to drift wide and beat players either to inside or wide.’’
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/geo...ll-go-to-chelsea-in-2026.486737/post-33056618

The heat map matches what I described that during attacking transition both Garnacho & Dorgu shares similar heat map. Garnacho drifts wide to receive a pass and then beat players (and I have mentioned ‘’beat players from wide to inside’’).



The RCB and midfielder like Ugarte will also need to change position. Yet, you want Mazraoui to play the RCB despite of your comment above. If you don’t expect the RCB and Ugarte to be the main source of our attack to provide Amad/Garnacho with more space to operate in, the same thing I have been explaining to you that It’s bizarre if you expect the manager to use inverted wingback to be the main source of our attack like what you described in your comment above.

I have addressed this point of yours by explaining to you multiple times the role of inverted wingback and I’m not wasting my time to repeat it again because you don’t get it. You view inverted wingback to be like playmaker and attacking wingback, but I don’t view inverted wingback like that as the main objective. Agree to disagree.


That’s your assumption. If you actually read again what I said, I have explained many points why I suggested to use inverted wingback and one of them is to buy ourselves time so we can focus more on other areas in this summer and improve the backbone of the team first. We aren’t going to solve all problems in one summer because we have limited budget, therefore we also need to know how to use or get the best out of the rest of the squad not just pretend that we have lot of money to spend.

Not once have I said that an inverted WB should be our main source of attack. I have simply pointed out that in our current set up, our “inverted WB” as you describe him still frequently and consistently gets in to attacking positions, and still frequently and consistently breaks our attacking impetus by not being good enough or effective enough in those positions. And therefore a less limited player being in those same positions would benefit our attacking play as a whole, and help us to create more chances and score more goals (which is one of our team’s most glaring deficiencies).

You keep trying to insist they have less attacking responsibilities, whilst ignoring all the times they very clearly have significant attacking responsibility. Dalot frequently gets in position to put in a good cross, but he’ll shank it out for a goal kick or hit it too long instead. He frequently gets in one on one positions, but he doesn’t have the ability to beat a man which means it doesn’t go anywhere. He frequently gets oppprtunities to slide a pass in to a team mate in the box but dithers and cuts back instead, losing the opening and the moment. And moments like these kill our attack.

And Amad and Garnacho drifting wide and then drifting inside in no way tactically negates this glaring issue. Their game is not raised or made possible or made more effective by a player with Dalot’s limitations “inverting”. Their threat would actually be enhanced if they had a better and more incisive ball carrier or passer interchanging with them.

 

[kerrygold]

Wrong, he is garbage.

Yeah. I think this also. I find myself screaming at him most matches.

 

[Raoul]

Dalot is United's most underappreciated player right now and has been for at least a season or two. Guy plays a million matches in numerous positions. He inverts, he overlaps, he presses high, he's last man back. He has brainless moments no doubt, but he's immensely valuable to our squad and probably represents one of our best transfers post Fergie.

Agreed. How anyone can be critical of a player like Dalot is beyond me. He's clearly a massive asset, especially compared to the other challenges the squad currently facing, most conspicuous of which is the need for a proper United quality striker.

 

[Raoul]

Ruben. What a guy. Pretty bad sandwich though.

Ruben > Prawn Sandwiches

 

[DevilRed]

Agreed. How anyone can be critical of a player like Dalot is beyond me. He's clearly a massive asset, especially compared to the other challenges the squad currently faced, most conspicuous of which is buying a proper United quality striker.

Just by his availability alone, nobody in their right minds can call him a bad signing when compared to the others in our squad.

He has improved leaps and bounds since he first got here. Solid player.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

@Zumbi @JE-365

Nobody is interested, you’re putting everyone on a downer.

Meanwhile, Bournemouth are winning,

Agree to disagree, maybe a big virtual hug?

Let’s go into next week full of optimism and love for each other.

 

[Zumbi]

@Zumbi @JE-365

Nobody is interested, you’re putting everyone on a downer.

Meanwhile, Bournemouth are winning,

Agree to disagree, maybe a big virtual hug?

Let’s go into next week full of optimism and love for each other.

Haha, fair enough, well said. Will stop cnuting up the thread.

 

[Waywestofthere]

Ruben > Prawn Sandwiches

true, but somehow a prawn taco is the shit.

 

[Escobar]

Ruben. What a guy. Pretty bad sandwich though.

Depends where you get it

 

[Irwin99]

'Ruben, Ruben, you've got an exciting run of games ahead, but can I just ask you about Marcus Rashford who scored his first two goals since December?' Isn't it amazing!?

A gentlemanly response from the boss as usual but boy must he be annoyed at these journos

 

[Raoul]

- Mount, Maguire, and Yoro : Available

- Luke Shaw : Not ready yet, but doing drills

- Mainoo : Returning but not yet available.

- Evans and Heaven : Recovering

 

[Rozay]

Reflecting over this mid-season break, I would say that my initial position when Amorim was first linked with us has not changed. I think he’s a talented coach and seemingly a very likeable man, however, I don’t think he’s the right fit. He may even win something with us, just as Conte could have done - but I was skeptical about his football from the start.

To me, he’s puts too many defenders on the pitch at once, and then of the others, he puts too many midfielders. In a traditional 433 - I see it t as 3 forwards/strikers PLUS a 10. With us we are playing 5 defenders and sometimes as many as 4 further midfield players. Players like Mount, Eriksen, Mainoo, Bruno are not players who should be in a front 3. These players are effectively playing a Heung-Min Son role for us. They should have 3 forwards ahead of them, not be the forward players.

Then there’s the midfield itself. I was concerned at Sporting that he didn’t seem to require much from his midfielders with the football. They are set up to play against the ball firstly.

The outcome of that is players like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo have been struggling to fit. Mainoo can play in a top midfield IMO, but not in this one because that type of midfielder isn’t really conducive. Rashford has played poorly, but in terms of profile - I’d be worried if we were asking questions about whether this type of player can play or not. It’s the type of player every top team needs to make a difference, and the idea that a player like Mason Mount could be more suited to Rashford for a role says a lot about the expectations of the role. I feel like if Amorim was managing Liverpool, he could theoretically see Striker + Szobozlai and Jones as a feasible front 3, or even Striker + Salah + Jones, which is still not as potent IMO.

Basically, the team feels like a bit of a blunt instrument. Too often we expect our promising attacking situations to be solved by players who are not optimised in those situations. I don’t know who we will sign in the summer, but changing Hojlund for Osimhen, swapping one 10 for another doesn’t change enough I fear. I want 3 forwards on the pitch. There are no ‘flying wingers’ in this vision from what I can see, and some of the best players in world football would not really have a role in this team.

In the absolute perfect storm, any system can work of course if every player is ‘just right’ for this idea, but that is difficult to achieve with a vision that excludes so much talent on the market by default.

 

[Raoul]

Reflecting over this mid-season break, I would say that my initial position when Amorim was first linked with us has not changed. I think he’s a talented coach and seemingly a very likeable man, however, I don’t think he’s the right fit. He may even win something with us, just as Conte could have done - but I was skeptical about his football from the start.

To me, he’s puts too many defenders on the pitch at once, and then of the others, he puts too many midfielders. In a traditional 433 - I see it t as 3 forwards/strikers PLUS a 10. With us we are playing 5 defenders and sometimes as many as 4 further midfield players. Players like Mount, Eriksen, Mainoo, Bruno are not players who should be in a front 3. These players are effectively playing a Heung-Min Son role for us. They should have 3 forwards ahead of them, not be the forward players.

Then there’s the midfield itself. I was concerned at Sporting that he didn’t seem to require much from his midfielders with the football. They are set up to play against the ball firstly.

The outcome of that is players like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo have been struggling to fit. Mainoo can play in a top midfield IMO, but not in this one because that type of midfielder isn’t really conducive. Rashford has played poorly, but in terms of profile - I’d be worried if we were asking questions about whether this type of player can play or not. It’s the type of player every top team needs to make a difference, and the idea that a player like Mason Mount could be more suited to Rashford for a role says a lot about the expectations of the role. I feel like if Amorim was managing Liverpool, he could theoretically see Striker + Szobozlai and Jones as a feasible front 3, or even Striker + Salah + Jones, which is still not as potent IMO.

Basically, the team feels like a bit of a blunt instrument. Too often we expect our promising attacking situations to be solved by players who are not optimised in those situations. I don’t know who we will sign in the summer, but changing Hojlund for Osimhen, swapping one 10 for another doesn’t change enough I fear. I want 3 forwards on the pitch. There are no ‘flying wingers’ in this vision from what I can see, and some of the best players in world football would not really have a role in this team.

In the absolute perfect storm, any system can work of course if every player is ‘just right’ for this idea, but that is difficult to achieve with a vision that excludes so much talent on the market by default.

Interesting. I'm actually more all in on Amorim now than I was when he first arrived. His positive temperament is the perfect remedy to rebuild United from the ground up for another long stretch of competing for leagues and CLs. Despite our table position, results v City, Liverpool, and Arsenal offer a glimpse of significantly better days ahead once we are fully fit and have a proper striker.

 

[Top_Bins]

Interesting. I'm actually more all in on Amorim now than I was when he first arrived. His positive temperament is the perfect remedy to rebuild United from the ground up for another long stretch of competing for leagues and CLs. Despite our table position, results v City, Liverpool, and Arsenal offer a glimpse of significantly better days ahead once we are fully fit and have a proper striker.

I agree. We're still to clear out the bad apples from the squad, but we're already seeing glimpses of players being brought to fit the system (Dorgu, Heaven) and it's looking far more positive going forward.

 

[Irwin99]

Reflecting over this mid-season break, I would say that my initial position when Amorim was first linked with us has not changed. I think he’s a talented coach and seemingly a very likeable man, however, I don’t think he’s the right fit. He may even win something with us, just as Conte could have done - but I was skeptical about his football from the start.

To me, he’s puts too many defenders on the pitch at once, and then of the others, he puts too many midfielders. In a traditional 433 - I see it t as 3 forwards/strikers PLUS a 10. With us we are playing 5 defenders and sometimes as many as 4 further midfield players. Players like Mount, Eriksen, Mainoo, Bruno are not players who should be in a front 3. These players are effectively playing a Heung-Min Son role for us. They should have 3 forwards ahead of them, not be the forward players.

Then there’s the midfield itself. I was concerned at Sporting that he didn’t seem to require much from his midfielders with the football. They are set up to play against the ball firstly.

The outcome of that is players like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo have been struggling to fit. Mainoo can play in a top midfield IMO, but not in this one because that type of midfielder isn’t really conducive. Rashford has played poorly, but in terms of profile - I’d be worried if we were asking questions about whether this type of player can play or not. It’s the type of player every top team needs to make a difference, and the idea that a player like Mason Mount could be more suited to Rashford for a role says a lot about the expectations of the role. I feel like if Amorim was managing Liverpool, he could theoretically see Striker + Szobozlai and Jones as a feasible front 3, or even Striker + Salah + Jones, which is still not as potent IMO.

Basically, the team feels like a bit of a blunt instrument. Too often we expect our promising attacking situations to be solved by players who are not optimised in those situations. I don’t know who we will sign in the summer, but changing Hojlund for Osimhen, swapping one 10 for another doesn’t change enough I fear. I want 3 forwards on the pitch. There are no ‘flying wingers’ in this vision from what I can see, and some of the best players in world football would not really have a role in this team.

In the absolute perfect storm, any system can work of course if every player is ‘just right’ for this idea, but that is difficult to achieve with a vision that excludes so much talent on the market by default.

I'm not asking this in a condescending way because you might ultimately be right but did you not think the performance against Sociedad with Dorgu constantly surging forward and giving their fullback a nightmare to deal with suggests that this could be an attacking formation with the right profile of player? I'm not saying Dorgu is that player but if you imagine someone like Frimpong or prime Evra then it looks far more attacking.

When you go back to Liverpool's Klopp side a few years ago his midfield was very functional and hard working but the creativity was often provided by the full backs and the lethal front three. When people say someone like Ugarte is limited, i'm not so sure he needs to be all that creative in our system. The real creativity comes from the the wing backs and the two tens and if we had a great striker who could bang in the goals I think we'd be looking a lot better.

You might be right and I guess time will tell but personally I'm interested to see how this system develops with the right players.

 

[Rozay]

Interesting. I'm actually more all in on Amorim now than I was when he first arrived. His positive temperament is the perfect remedy to rebuild United from the ground up for another long stretch of competing for leagues and CLs. Despite our table position, results v City, Liverpool, and Arsenal offer a glimpse of significantly better days ahead once we are fully fit and have a proper striker.

I don’t think you have necessarily said something different. There is a lot to like in terms of temperament and he seems a great and likeable personality. But from a purely football perspective, are you happy either way the foundations you are seeing so far? Personally, I still don’t fully agree with the footballing principles I’m seeing. Of course, I’ve become desperate to the point where I’ll take anything that works - but it all looks like unnecessarily over complicated football to me which has a lower probability of success than something a bit more traditional, and relies upon a perfect alignment that is harder to find.

My views are subject to change, but in theory, I want to see a team with great 1v1 forwards in attacking roles who take people on and score goals. I also want to see central midfielders that control games with the ball. Amorim’s ideas may work in the end, but I just don’t like the approach.

 

[Smores]

How people are still complaining this formation is remotely defensive is beyond me. As for 3 forwards, that's exactly what we'll end up with obviously as we already know the exact template he wants to deploy, his Sporting 10s attacked the box and scored goals.