Arsenal - 2024/25

Saka starting against Bolton seems absolutely crazy. What was the need?
Yeah that was proper bonkers, even Bolton made loads of changes.
Like you didn’t see Liverpool starting Salah in the league cup before the Semi and you didn’t see city starting Haaland in the league cup. All on Arteta this. Terrible squad management.
 
You won't struggle against us, why wouldn't your board buy a striker in either transfer window when the money was clearly there. Teams who play in claret and blue proper have it in for your title hopes.

Honestly, I think we will. We always find Old Trafford difficult, remember we were flying last season with a near fully fit team, you were coming off the back of drawing with Burnley at home and a thrashing at Palace, and we still laboured to a 1-0 win.

As for signing a striker, we are all wondering the same. Id love to hear from someone at the club to hear their thinking. My opinion is that they have long term targets, (likely someone like Sesko), and probably tried to see if he was available in January, and decided to wait until the summer when we heard he wasn't. Watkins sounds like we were offered him and thought we could sneak a cut price deal until Villa agreed to sell Duran.

What annoyed me more is not even getting a stop gap signing like Morata. Apparently we had heard he could be available, had made contact, but didn't take it any further and Galatasaray pushed and got him.

Martinelli is massively injury prone. Saka obviously isn’t. Saka at some stage was going to get a serious muscle injury because of his mins and the way he plays and Arsenal play. They showed a table recently where injuries were more apparent in high sprinting/running teams.

If you want to play that way you have to protect your players. Arteta never protected Saka.

Bolton at home in the league Cup, why is Saka playing?… he also came on in the following round against Preston when you’d had the game won.
Even in the build up to that Palace league game where he got the injury, he’d been struggling with knocks and again Arteta brought him on a few days earlier in a league cup game against Palace. It’s crazy and reckless mismanagement of Sakas fitness and minutes by Arteta. You can even put the same argument forward for Havertz.

I get it, I do. I'm just saying we all just assume for instance, if he doesn't play vs Bolton, maybe has another rest week 2 months later, that the injury doesn't happen, and all I'm saying is that I don't think it's as black & white as that. They have all the medical info and data about the player about Red Zones, fatigue etc that we never see. We slate managers for causing injuries, poor squad management, and don't mention that Saka has played for 5/6 years without a serious injury, so someone is doing something right.
 
I get it, I do. I'm just saying we all just assume for instance, if he doesn't play vs Bolton, maybe has another rest week 2 months later, that the injury doesn't happen, and all I'm saying is that I don't think it's as black & white as that. They have all the medical info and data about the player about Red Zones, fatigue etc that we never see. We slate managers for causing injuries, poor squad management, and don't mention that Saka has played for 5/6 years without a serious injury, so someone is doing something right.

Nobody is saying it's as black and white as him not getting the injury or not but it's surely common sense and logical that if you play someone in pretty much every single game and at full minutes in the majority of them then the risk of injury is going to be higher due to the wear on the body. Especially at a young age when he's still growing.
 
Nobody is saying it's as black and white as him not getting the injury or not but it's surely common sense and logical that if you play someone in pretty much every single game and at full minutes in the majority of them then the risk of injury is going to be higher due to the wear on the body. Especially at a young age when he's still growing.
Every Arsenal fan I know (and sadly I know a lot) has been baffled, even before the injury, at just how many meaningless games and the sheer number of minutes that Saka has played and almost every single one of them was expecting an injury.
 
Nobody is saying it's as black and white as him not getting the injury or not but it's surely common sense and logical that if you play someone in pretty much every single game and at full minutes in the majority of them then the risk of injury is going to be higher due to the wear on the body. Especially at a young age when he's still growing.

Yeah, but again, my point is injuries in sport are basically inevitable. How much is unavoidable / preventable I suppose is the debate here, and they guys have much more data and expertise at their fingertips than you and I sitting at the side and judging every decision they make. Every player is different, some more robust than others. Look at Calvert-Lewin at your club for instance. You compare his injury record to Saka's, and who has been mismanaged more?
 
Yeah, but again, my point is injuries in sport are basically inevitable. How much is unavoidable / preventable I suppose is the debate here, and they guys have much more data and expertise at their fingertips than you and I sitting at the side and judging every decision they make. Every player is different, some more robust than others. Look at Calvert-Lewin at your club for instance. You compare his injury record to Saka's, and who has been mismanaged more?

Just take the L mate, you seem to be the only person weirdly defending this case.

DCL was managed like shit before but that's a completely different scenario and a rubbish comparison.
 
Just take the L mate, you seem to be the only person weirdly defending this case.

DCL was managed like shit before but that's a completely different scenario and a rubbish comparison."

"Take the L"? Love it, good one mate. I thought we were just having a discussion, i'm just trying to look at the other side of a discussion / debate, i like to look at both sides and try and see points from either view.

For what it's worth, i think Saka has played too much football, i think he needed minutes managed better, and certainly after a serious hamstring injury he'll need them managed even more. Unfortunately though we're playing football at a time where they are playing even more games and giving them even less breaks, so i think it's not just on Arteta, it's on all of football to address this.

I'm just not sure "football player getting an injury" conclusively gives you your W, that was my only point.
 
"Take the L"? Love it, good one mate. I thought we were just having a discussion, i'm just trying to look at the other side of a discussion / debate, i like to look at both sides and try and see points from either view.

For what it's worth, i think Saka has played too much football, i think he needed minutes managed better, and certainly after a serious hamstring injury he'll need them managed even more. Unfortunately though we're playing football at a time where they are playing even more games and giving them even less breaks, so i think it's not just on Arteta, it's on all of football to address this.

I'm just not sure "football player getting an injury" conclusively gives you your W, that was my only point.

Sometimes things are so obvious they don't really need a debate and now you've just admitted to debating against something you believe yourself. Strange.
 
Next season is their last chance, I don’t think Saliba will sign and their army of influencers will turn the fans on Arteta, plus i can’t see him not continuing to play Saka into the ground

It should’ve been this year but they signed Calafiori and Merino instead of a striker

Shame for them there’s not a market for Odegaard, I’d sell him and get Wirtz
 
Next season is their last chance, I don’t think Saliba will sign and their army of influencers will turn the fans on Arteta, plus i can’t see him not continuing to play Saka into the ground

It should’ve been this year but they signed Calafiori and Merino instead of a striker

Shame for them there’s not a market for Odegaard, I’d sell him and get Wirtz

Last chance for? I think it will become more difficult for them next season, when you go 2 seasons trying to beat City and lose out then lose to Liverpool season after, the confidence will be low. Luckily for Arsenal, Saliba may be the only player that would leave, dont see a market for any of the other players.

Whilst Saka will have a market, him being Arsenal youth, I doubt he will want to move right now.
 
Sometimes things are so obvious they don't really need a debate and now you've just admitted to debating against something you believe yourself. Strange.

Like i said, my point is football player gets inevitable injury isn't conclusive proof to me about causation of injury and how preventable it was, and that the guys with the data will know a bit more than you or i, that's all my point was, but we are going round in circles so ill just take me L and move on.
 
Does feel like the end of a cycle for them. They've not evolved and basically regressed to Jover FC.

They could lose another year to find out that Arteta is not the one to start their next cycle.
 
Does feel like the end of a cycle for them. They've not evolved and basically regressed to Jover FC.

They could lose another year to find out that Arteta is not the one to start their next cycle.

Can I ask why you think it's the end of a cycle? Again, you might be right, just wondering your thinking behind it.
 
Can I ask why you think it's the end of a cycle? Again, you might be right, just wondering your thinking behind it.

I think you've been overperforming in the two seasons past. Which is, I suppose, also to Arteta's credit.

In terms of your evolution of play, you had a young team that was really coming into its own. But when you look at where you are now compared to 2023, has anything really happened? What's the next step? I am thinking here both in terms of development of your players and style of play. Arteta seems to be losing sight of his own vision as well. He's far too concerned about being hard to beat than making it hard for the opposition to stop you.

He's been there five years and imo done really well. This isn't a "failing to win a trophy yet again is not acceptable" kind of thing. Klopp had off-seasons too.

It's not so much about the results, which are injury affected, as it is how you are getting them. I just don't see him finding another gear in the evolution of this side. He's treading water, a bit like Wenger ended up doing. The Transfers kinda show it too, though that isn't all his fault (I imagine he decides whether a forward is all important, or another midfielder though).

I think you'll have to spend another season to find out if that is really the case though. Which is where the pity is really. Teams like this don't really have as many years to come together and then win stuff as it can sometimes seem.
 
I think you've been overperforming in the two seasons past. Which is, I suppose, also to Arteta's credit.

In terms of your evolution of play, you had a young team that was really coming into its own. But when you look at where you are now compared to 2023, has anything really happened? What's the next step? I am thinking here both in terms of development of your players and style of play. Arteta seems to be losing sight of his own vision as well. He's far too concerned about being hard to beat than making it hard for the opposition to stop you.

He's been there five years and imo done really well. This isn't a "failing to win a trophy yet again is not acceptable" kind of thing. Klopp had off-seasons too.

It's not so much about the results, which are injury affected, as it is how you are getting them. I just don't see him finding another gear in the evolution of this side. He's treading water, a bit like Wenger ended up doing. The Transfers kinda show it too, though that isn't all his fault (I imagine he decides whether a forward is all important, or another midfielder though).

I think you'll have to spend another season to find out if that is really the case though. Which is where the pity is really. Teams like this don't really have as many years to come together and then win stuff as it can sometimes seem.

I see your points mate, all very valid.

I'm obviously looking through red tinted glasses, so obviously biased, but I still think we are well positioned to keep up there challenging. I think we have dropped off a bit quality wise this season, but i also believe the injuries and sending offs have contributed to this. We might need a tweak or 2 to become more fluid or whatever, and we certainly need more firepower in the forward areas, but the fact we are where we are in the league despite these issues and obvious weaknesses gives me hope that there is still another level for us to go to.

Obviously a lot will come down to what we do in the transfer market, and no-one can really predict how that's going to go in the summer, so i will be a lot less confident if we again fail to get what we need next window. Good thing is we know there's little PSR issues, and we should have a decent budget, but they still need to execute, so there will be little excuse, there will be massive pressure on them to deliver when we've had 2 windows now that have been disappointing.

Mentally, i get the 3 year challenging disappointment aspect, but i think by March / April we won't see this as a real challenge, it will be out of sight. I think Arteta might try and drum into the squad that the injuries and the sending's offs are the main reason why the season never really took off (even if there was more to it than that) to try and deflect some of the disappointment away and try and galvanise the squad to again.

The other unknown is what happens to our direct rivals. What happens to Salah, Van Dijk & Trent? How do City react to this season? How much can the likes of Chelsea, Villa, Newcastle etc improve?

I get the Netflix FC comments that will come, and are all valid as well. We've proven nothing yet but that we are a good team that can't take the final step. But i'm a football fan, like all on here, and i bet everyone of us hope and think next season will be better. We are all Netflix FC in that regard.
 
Listen, he probably has, but nearly all players will get injured at some stage, some get injured after playing lots of minutes, some get injured after not playing many. I've given you a direct comparison to Martinelli, who had only completed x5 90mins in the league prior to his hamstring tear. So playing Devil's Advocate here, why is 1 due to being mismanaged by Arteta and the other isn't?

Saka is a bit like Mount tbh. Mount was one of the most durable players in the league from when he broke through until 2022, but it was obvious the lack of rest, the constant 90 minute games in 60 game seasons was going to catch up to him eventually. Sadly for him, the first injury set back has since snowballed into him becoming massively injury prone.

Hopefully that doesn't happen to Saka but I remember sounding the alarm on Saka ages ago, and he wouldn't be the first player to go from extremely durable to suddenly being unable to shake constant niggly injuries after being run into the ground.
 
Like i said, my point is football player gets inevitable injury isn't conclusive proof to me about causation of injury and how preventable it was, and that the guys with the data will know a bit more than you or i, that's all my point was, but we are going round in circles so ill just take me L and move on.
Your point isn't very interesting and is quite daft in connection with Saka.
 
Saka is a bit like Mount tbh. Mount was one of the most durable players in the league from when he broke through until 2022, but it was obvious the lack of rest, the constant 90 minute games in 60 game seasons was going to catch up to him eventually. Sadly for him, the first injury set back has since snowballed into him becoming massively injury prone.

Hopefully that doesn't happen to Saka but I remember sounding the alarm on Saka ages ago, and he wouldn't be the first player to go from extremely durable to suddenly being unable to shake constant niggly injuries after being run into the ground.

I do worry about this type of injury, I'd be reluctant to play him again this season just to allow it to be build up over a longer recovery time and a full pre season as well.

Your point isn't very interesting and is quite daft in connection with Saka.

Might need to shut the forum down if your starting to have a problem with these posts! :p
 
A good manager gets results in spite of injuries decimating his team, no? That’s what we were told last year?
They are getting results. They're second in the table and finished 3rd/4th in the CL group

They're just not getting results to compete in a ~90 points title race
 
I genuinely think last season title race lost has hurt Arteta and Arsenal mentality. How can you recover from that losing it right at the end with how many points they were on.
89 points. Over the last 8 years that would have realistically won them the league in 20/21, the Covid season(super-compressed schedule), and...that's it. It really wasn't a league-winning form in the Guardiola era
 
They are getting results. They're second in the table and finished 3rd/4th in the CL group

They're just not getting results to compete in a ~90 points title race
We got results last year, just not enough as well.
 
We got results last year, just not enough as well.
There's a difference between being 2nd in the league, likely in the QF of the CL, and what you did last season

But I don't disagree either. Though one big difference is Arsenal's results are deserved, rather than "McTominay saves Ten Hag's job. Again" stuff...
 
Does feel like the end of a cycle for them. They've not evolved and basically regressed to Jover FC.

They could lose another year to find out that Arteta is not the one to start their next cycle.

A lot of people saying this but I don't see it:
  • Their group of core players (Saka, Odegaard, Rice, Saliba, Gabriel, White/Timber) all 27 or below and under contract for the next few seasons.
  • Emerging young talents like Nwaneri and MLS who should be key contributors next season onwards as well.
  • Financially they are in a position to spend and reinforce the squad in vital areas.
  • They've shown tactical evolution / an ability to change their style and continue to win games under Arteta.
In the summer if they manage to bring in Zubimendi as has been touted plus a top class CF, and maybe depth in a couple of other areas like LB, CB cover and/or another LW option they are in a great position to challenge again next year. They could maybe even be favourites in that scenario depending on what happens with Liverpool's out of contract trio and how well City manage to transition with a lot of the recent title-winning side slowly being phased out.
 
The next level for them will be bringing a forward from the likes of Isak. A sure thing. City have Haaland. Pool have Salah.

If he persists with the likes of Jesus, Havertz, even Martineli, boy, it gonna be a dull season again.
 
The next level for them will be bringing a forward from the likes of Isak. A sure thing. City have Haaland. Pool have Salah.

If he persists with the likes of Jesus, Havertz, even Martineli, boy, it gonna be a dull season again.

Having a top quality centre forward would help (having any centre forward would help currently but that's a temp issue).

However, we have also have an achillies heel with the system we play, and how we use the personnel within that system.

It seems to work well when playing the teams that like to have posession & press high and as the results show. However, it can totally be stifled by teams like Newcastle who play a mid to low block but press us aggressively in their half and then transition quickly on us. Our chance creation is poor in those games, and the chances we do create we struggle to put away.

He needs to work this out, we seen examples of it last season at Newcastle, at Villa, vs Porto, and we've seen even more examples of it this season. Whether that's getting a more attacking 8 in for those games, or tweaking the system slightly, or just seeing if better quality forwards get you better results.
 
I mean they have Saka, Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus all out injured. Their front line is a makeshift attack consisting of Merino, a bog standard, bang average midfielder forced to play up front, Trossard and a 17 year old. That’s not an attack that’s gonna get you loads of goals.

The gap from Arsenal to the team sitting in 10th is smaller than the gap from Arsenal to Liverpool now.
 
I mean they have Saka, Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus all out injured. Their front line is a makeshift attack consisting of Merino, a bog standard, bang average midfielder forced to play up front, Trossard and a 17 year old. That’s not an attack that’s gonna get you loads of goals.

The gap from Arsenal to the team sitting in 10th is smaller than the gap from Arsenal to Liverpool now.

Still feels like negligence to be in that position despite how unlucky they've been with the injuries. If they signed a striker they probably still wouldn't have won the title due to how efficient Liverpool are looking this season but they'd have made a good go of it.

Still think they'll finish 2nd but I wouldn't put it past them to drop more stinkers.
 
Still feels like negligence to be in that position despite how unlucky they've been with the injuries. If they signed a striker they probably still wouldn't have won the title due to how efficient Liverpool are looking this season but they'd have made a good go of it.

Still think they'll finish 2nd but I wouldn't put it past them to drop more stinkers.

Yeah for sure. It’s a failing of the club to not have signed anybody in positions of need in January, as well as last summer. They were extremely fortunate with injuries last season, compared to other teams, and it’s like they just said let’s run it back with the same players since they’re so durable.

All that being true, we still have to judge each game based on the personnel they’re putting out there, and these attacking line ups are worse than what more than half the league can put out. Merino up front? All 19 other teams can field better strikers than him.
 
I mean they have Saka, Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus all out injured. Their front line is a makeshift attack consisting of Merino, a bog standard, bang average midfielder forced to play up front, Trossard and a 17 year old. That’s not an attack that’s gonna get you loads of goals.

The gap from Arsenal to the team sitting in 10th is smaller than the gap from Arsenal to Liverpool now.
Yeah with current attack I wouldn't be surprised if they struggle to even knock out PSV in the Champions League. That should be more interesting 2 games than initally thought.
 
Still feels like negligence to be in that position despite how unlucky they've been with the injuries. If they signed a striker they probably still wouldn't have won the title due to how efficient Liverpool are looking this season but they'd have made a good go of it.

Still think they'll finish 2nd but I wouldn't put it past them to drop more stinkers.
Yeah they could have at least put some more pressure on. Liverpool have a big gap and less pressure to get results which of course means they don't feel the heat / play with freedom
 
Yeah for sure. It’s a failing of the club to not have signed anybody in positions of need in January, as well as last summer. They were extremely fortunate with injuries last season, compared to other teams, and it’s like they just said let’s run it back with the same players since they’re so durable.

All that being true, we still have to judge each game based on the personnel they’re putting out there, and these attacking line ups are worse than what more than half the league can put out. Merino up front? All 19 other teams can field better strikers than him.
Have you watched hoijlund recently?
 
Is it just me or do they look like a team that is almost too 'coached'? Everything seems so rehearsed, so repeated, so stereotypical. There is very little freedom afforded to the players (bar maybe Saka). Really doesn't make for a great watch which is okay if you win things. They seem to be a well-coached team but also one that looks perennially short of the brilliance of great teams, precisely because of the overly rehearsed nature of that coaching.
 
Currently closer to 10th than they are to us.

In all seriousness, they controlled around 95% of their game against Forest. Again Arteta has no idea what to do to get them scoring and breaking teams down with what he has, but they played well.

I wonder if it’s worth trying Odegaard as a false 9, or Trossard who I’m sure played a game or two there for Brighton. I seem to remember him scoring a hat trick and brace against us in that kind of position.
 
People say board did not back him but there has to be questions raised to Arteta as well. Were calafiori and merino needed. 70 odd million combined for them, couldn't they got a striker for that amount. It is not a coincidence that arteta signs defenders more when they need attackers.
 
He seems a bit stubborn. Maybe a Pep trait. Pep wanted to show the World with how smart he is by playing a Champions League final without a DM, and he benched Rodri v Chelsea. He lost the game because of it.

Arteta seems that he has to win the League by doing things his own way, and not buying a recognised striker. It also keeps biting him in the ass.
 
Weekly flurry of uninformed "takes" that have been debunked many times. Only 11 more to go, yay...