You must be on some strong mushroomsBoth of them already score from headers
You must be on some strong mushroomsBoth of them already score from headers
People learnt absolutely nothing from Fergie. We had two decades of a great manager, and all people took from it was how much time he was given and the "hairdryer treatment". He spoke at great lengths about managing different personalities, generations etc, yet it's all forgotten these days and is a shame really. The saying "you can lead a horse to water..." rings true.Judging by some posts here, you'd think player performances are simply a function of how much the coaches yell at and berate them.
Somehow I imagine getting an underperforming player out of a slump involves a little more nuance than just shouting at them.Oh fecking yes.
Would love to see rashford and some of our other underperformers given a dressing down like that.
But imagine if the two of them did it at the same time? That'd be something new eh?
I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.Indeed let's not forget this lot have got 4 managers sacked. But Ratcliffes are onto them.
Only one of our targets is Dutch. And I think it will help him if his back room team are all Dutch especially one who knows the club very well and one who’s close friends with him and worked with him at Twente. Also having a different personality someone who can lay into players might help also.He's loving it isn't it, gets a new contract, dutch coaches, potentially new dutch players
He's living the life at Dutch Trafford
Two I thought, De Ligt and Zirkzee? Either way, my post was more tongue in cheekOnly one of our targets is Dutch. And I think it will help him if his back room team are all Dutch especially one who knows the club very well and one who’s close friends with him and worked with him at Twente. Also having a different personality someone who can lay into players might help also.
People learnt absolutely nothing from Fergie. We had two decades of a great manager, and all people took from it was how much time he was given and the "hairdryer treatment". He spoke at great lengths about managing different personalities, generations etc, yet it's all forgotten these days and is a shame really. The saying "you can lead a horse to water..." rings true.
Argh ye. My bad. Forgot about De Ligt. Is De Ligt aswell as Branthwaite? I hope it’s not him instead of. We need 2 CBTwo I thought, De Ligt and Zirkzee? Either way, my post was more tongue in cheek
10 or so last season left that played under Ole. 6 who played under Jose.I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.
then we’re left with Rashford
The worst is the people who think he was tactically mediocre and a "vibes" manager simply because he was tactically flexible and not rigidly wedded to one specific philosophy like some of the "hipster" managers today.People learnt absolutely nothing from Fergie. We had two decades of a great manager, and all people took from it was how much time he was given and the "hairdryer treatment". He spoke at great lengths about managing different personalities, generations etc, yet it's all forgotten these days and is a shame really. The saying "you can lead a horse to water..." rings true.
I’ve genuinely thought that, where he just swears and it’s almost like he cannot fathom what to say so uses it as filler. It’s very annoying and I’m not sure I’d even listen anymore if I was a player.Same here. It’s just non stop. Has he no vocabulary?
Yet it’s the players fault.10 or so last season left that played under Ole. 6 who played under Jose.
I've pulled at that thread many times in here. Many don't seem to realize just how few players we have left from even 2022. But 9 times out of 10 it usually just boils down to Rashford.
You’d love to just tell him to “feck up”I’ve genuinely thought that, where he just swears and it’s almost like he cannot fathom what to say so uses it as filler. It’s very annoying and I’m not sure I’d even listen anymore if I was a player.
Of course any other conclusion would result in the manager bearing some responsibility.Yet it’s the players fault.
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Yeah , a whole of yelling at millionaires from a rando whose name they probably haven't even heard 2 weeks prior. That's gonna sort out our "softies".The softies in the squad are going to get found out very fast - hopefully this guy makes the team tougher mentally.
It's more the culture rather than the people. The Glazers and their lackey in the name of Woodward have shifted us from a well oiled meritorcratic based machine, to a club where minimal effort is rewarded with a new contract to protect the "asset's value" usually coupled with insane wages as well.I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.
then we’re left with Rashford
No, Van Der Gaag wanted to be a manager even before ETH joined United. ETH persuaded him to come to United as he needed all the help he can get.van Der Gaag and ETH fell out or something?
What you say is logical.It's more the culture rather than the people. The Glazers and their lackey in the name of Woodward have shifted us from a well oiled meritorcratic based machine, to a club where minimal effort is rewarded with a new contract to protect the "asset's value" usually coupled with insane wages as well.
In such an environment players have quickly learned that they can get away with way more than at any time in the past. There is a reason every single coach since LVG have been saying that we are run not like a football club.
Even the new recruits that walk through the door and become "part of the problem", because they immediately pick up on the culture. The culture has to be addressed first before we are going to stop seeing it. In the past we've had players like Pogba, Lingard and co who were problematic apples. Now we have Sancho, Casemiro, Rashford, Varane.
The good news is that INEOS have recognized this problem and are trying to move away from this model. Hopefully in the the near future this will be nothing more than a footnote in our club's history.
People like you really think it's all about the yelling don't you? It's about the discipline - if you don't do as expected, then be prepared to be "sorted out". It's about instilling standards not about what big name coach you have. With Ineos, player power will diminish so those who think they can just throw their toys out of the prams because the manager/coaching team is not treating them like the kings they think they are will have another thing coming.Yeah , a whole of yelling at millionaires from a rando whose name they probably haven't even heard 2 weeks prior. That's gonna sort out our "softies".
What I don't like is in first paragraph you just blame in on the players, but regarding England it's apparently on the manager. The thing is, the bolded part can be also applied to United, wouldn't you agree?I think there’s a decent enough amount of evidence to suggest it for a bunch of players. Rashford has had alternating seasons where he’s scored 20+ goals under Ole to being dropped and then from 30 goals with Ten Hag to another poor season. Many others like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Mctominay, Wan Bissaka have been through our mediocre recent history. Our squad show that they are decent when a new manager comes in and crumble when it’s time to take the leap from top 4 finishers to title contenders. And the fact they don’t even retain a similar level to maintain top 4, under various managers, is another damning indictment of their capability.
Specific to England, I think it’s clear that the manager has no tactical vision that the players can believe in. Through a combination of luck and some gritty defensive performances, England under Southgate have over delivered on results in major tournaments. Especially compared to their performance levels. Now they are just waiting for the cycle to end.
I feel it's the complete opposite. It's individual mentality of Rashford, and probably you can add Casemiro as well last season (who seemed to play football just for fun).I don’t think it’s individual mentality. Most of these players have shown at one point or another that they have it in them to fight. It is more of a collective team issue, they struggle with adversity as a team.
Crazy that he turned down the Ajax job really. Can't see him doing better than that right now.No, Van Der Gaag wanted to be a manager even before ETH joined United. ETH persuaded him to come to United as he needed all the help he can get.
I imagine after last season and now that our management is looking to reshuffle our coaching, he wants to use this as an opportunity to be a manager again.
Ajax is a mess anyway. He would be setting himself up for failure.Crazy that he turned down the Ajax job really. Can't see him doing better than that right now.
Ok fair enough.No, Van Der Gaag wanted to be a manager even before ETH joined United. ETH persuaded him to come to United as he needed all the help he can get.
I imagine after last season and now that our management is looking to reshuffle our coaching, he wants to use this as an opportunity to be a manager again.
Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Shaw and how can you forget your old pal, Lindelof? Maguire came after Mourinho but continued a trend of signing not quite good enough central defenders, so is obviously part of the problem.I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.
then we’re left with Rashford
Also doesn’t help that we’ve signed players who haven’t improved us one bit. Antony/Mount. Malacia could have helped us this season as we’ve had no LB all season but him just like Shaw has been injured all season. Mctominay as shown he can come off the bench and maybe make an impact with a goal.Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Shaw and how can you forget your old pal, Lindelof? Maguire came after Mourinho but continued a trend of signing not quite good enough central defenders, so is obviously part of the problem.
That’s over half a team, right there.
Dalot makes seven but would be harsh to consider him part of the problem after the season he just had.
Absolutely. Plus Vareane and Martinez being unable to stay fit and Onana’s (hopeful!) teething pains, as well as too much responsibility on a player who looks a good few years away from being at the level needed (Hojlund). The signings under ETH have compounded long running issues. I’m just disagreeing with the notion that you can’t point to a core of players who have let down multiple managers over the years.Also doesn’t help that we’ve signed players who haven’t improved us one bit. Antony/Mount. Malacia could have helped us this season as we’ve had no LB all season but him just like Shaw has been injured all season. Mctominay as shown he can come off the bench and maybe make an impact with a goal.
Lindelof was signed by Mourinho. McTominay was brought through by him.Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Shaw and how can you forget your old pal, Lindelof? Maguire came after Mourinho but continued a trend of signing not quite good enough central defenders, so is obviously part of the problem.
That’s over half a team, right there.
Dalot makes seven but would be harsh to consider him part of the problem after the season he just had.
Why do we have trace a path all the way back to LvG? Mourinho took over at United seven seasons ago. That’s a fecking lifetime in turns of squad (and manager) turnover. So if we have a big chunk of players still at the club - and still causing the current manager problems - then that confirms the point you’re arguing against. We have a core of players who have been here a very long time and have caused problems for multiple managers over that period of time.Lindelof was signed by Mourinho. McTominay was brought through by him.
Rashford, shaw & martial are the only ones here since Lvg
50% of the team has been signed by ETH
I‘m Dutch and more than willing to translate Hake‘s cursing into English for the players.I find it a bit weird the club keep him but reshuffle the coaches around him. Shame about Mitchell van der Gaag, as well. Seemed like a model professional but who knows what happens behind the scenes, right?
Hake and Van Nistelrooy look like good additions. I like what I have seen from Hake in those videos, I just hope the players actually understand what he is saying.
Ten Hag's excuses are all running out. Although the lack of a DoF will certainly be significant disadvantage for the months to come. He must deliver nonetheless.
So much optimism, i hope you are right brother.I can understand some scepticism after the season we just had, but the amount of posters that seem to be absolutely sure that nothing will improve next season is baffling. No mid-season takeover, young players improving and adding players to the squad should help, and the odds that we'll have a season-long injury crisis are low. If we don't see any improvement, or not enough, then ten Hag should go - that goes without saying. I believe that, given the right signings and departures, we should be at a much healthier place than last season and we should see the results of that on the pitch. ten Hag is a good coach, last season was a statistical anomaly in his career so far. I'm content with giving him a chance to rectify last season.
It is even more funny considering that we have sacked only 4 managers since SAF left and there is no single player who is still here and who played under Moyes (the first manager we have sacked). There are only two who played under three sacked managers (Shaw and Rashford) who are still here.I’d love to know which specific players people mean when they say this because most have played for ole and ETH. A couple maybe for Mourinho.
then we’re left with Rashford
So do I. I am a relentless optimist, but even I have been tested a lot the last ten years. I hope we get to see some of what EtH showed with his Ajax teams here, two of the Ajax iterations were so much fun to watch.So much optimism, i hope you are right brother.
His old contract guarantees veto rights INEOS don't want a manager to have. They needed to negotiate a new deal which guves EtH less power.How the hell is this guy getting a new contract? he's lucky enough to see out his last season. Things will hit the fan again if we stutter start in August.
Pogba, Lingard, Bailly and Telles didn't play a competitive game under him did they?Also. If you’re talking about ETH only you can add Ronaldo, Pogba, Lingard, Bailly, Jones, Telles, De Gea and Van De Beek to the list of inherited problems.
That’s EIGHT players he had to move on and not one of them would make you regret their departure by their careers after United. Which is a hell of a strike rate, when you think about it.
Add those seven to the six who have performed badly under multiple managers and it really brings home the size of the squad overhaul needed when he took the job.