I didn’t say nor imply this. In fact, one of the things I said to you was that Ten Hag is very much in the same tier of managers we were reportedly in discussions to replace him with. I don't get why you choose to argue against non-existent positions. If you just want to have a convo with yourself you can just post without quoting other people.
But for clarification, yes, both the Bundesliga and French league are higher in my estimation than the Eredivisie
So you want to replace ETH with managers you consider in the same tier... in order to start a rebuild all over again? Make it make sense. As far as league standings go, the French and German leagues might be richer, but they are not more competitive, so your argument is bonkers. Winning a title with Ajax is much, much harder (even though they are generally speaking the club with most resources in the division) than winning a title with PSG or Bayern in their respective leagues. Come on, at least you have to admit that if not anything else.
I evidently do as you concocted "you want instant glory" out of thin air. When, again, there's a lot of space between "instant glory" and "worst prem campaign ever". But yes, I do think underperforming managers, like anyone else, should be sacked - not that this is in anyway relevant to our conversation, which was about you being dismissive regarding Tuchel's CL and trying to prop up Ten Hag with "two trophies"
Is he underperforming? 2 trophies in 2 seasons in 3 finals in a club that hasn't won a trophy in 8 years prior to that. Top 3rd finish in the first season, granted disappointing second season but with a heck of a lot problems that were out of ETH's hand. Furthermore I'm not dismissive of Tuchel's CL, I just argue that that is his only real accomplishment in football and putting our faith blindly in a manager that has a record of generally not winning trophies and leaving his clubs in ablaze in 2 seasons at best is just not a good idea. As I said, do you really want a Mourinho 2.0 with not even half of his accomplishments? Might as well just go for Conte if that's the case, he's way more accomplished than Tuchel, and ETH as well.
Once you stop moving goals posts and pivoting, you'll see that my logic is - if one of the pillars of your criticisms for Tuchel is "the only noteworthy thing to his name is the CL he won with Chelsea... something any manager can do since it's a cup competition." You can't then turn around and say "2 trophies" for Ten Hag, as if we're not aware of what those trophies were. It's comical. Even more so when you compound it by holding Ten Hag in great esteem for his CV (presumably titles with Ajax) and then turn around and are dismissive of Tuchel's titles with PSG.
You randomly started talking about sackings, etc, when that's a moot conversation. Ten Hag is seemingly here to stay.
What goalposts am I moving exactly? You seem to just indulge in non-arguments constantly, afraid of admitting you're wrong. I'm gonna say this for the 99th time. The FA Cup and the league cup isn't the be all end all for our club, but it's a good start for a club that hasn't won shit in almost a decade prior. And I'm not judging ETH on the 2 cups, I'm judging him on his resume as a whole and the spectacular work he has done in 3 clubs prior to taking over United - Bayern II, Utrecht and Ajax. You say I'm dismissive of Tuchel's titles at PSG. Hell yeah I am. Has PSG stopped winning titles prior or after Tuchel? Nope. Has Ajax stopped winning titles prior or after ETH? Yes.
By the time Klopp left Dortmund he was already one of the best managers in the world and much more accomplished than Ten Hag
No, he wasn't. In fact people were even claiming he wouldn't hack it in the PL. His stock was absolutely not that high after his last season with Dortmund.
You can ascribe whatever meaning you want to it. It is factual. It was our worst prem campaign ever and Ten Hag presided over it.
You're the type of guy that watched Barcelona dominate Chelsea for 180 minutes and claims that Chelsea were the better team because they managed to nick a lucky goal with a scoreline of 1-0. No, stats don't paint the full picture, they never have and it's incredibly short-sighted to just rely on them. Again, our treble team won the league with 79 points. We've achieved much higher points since then but the only team I'd argue that could possibly be better is our 2007/2008 team
No one is beyond criticism, it just seems you're taking it a bit far. Tuchel has been hired by PSG, Chelsea and Bayern Munich, that's hard to do with a weak CV. Chelsea hired him after he narrowly lost a CL final, and then he immediately took them to a CL final which they won. Are we to think that was a coincidence?
That's because the crop of managers nowadays isn't really all that decent. I mean just look at the names that have been reported for the United job. He's still upper tier manager, don't get me wrong, but he isn't the type I want managing United and least of all the type I would sack ETH for. If we are to sack ETH, we should be looking for young, progressive managers who can be employed preferably longer than 3 years and who don't leave every job kicking and screaming. Hell, McKenna as a manager is far more preferable to me and excites me more, but I think it's too early and I want to see a little more before taking such a huge gamble.