City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[Herschel Krustofsky]

As good an analysis of *’s challenge with the PL as I’ve read so far. Cuts through a lot of the speculation whirling around this and the other thread…

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/08/manchester-city-premier-league-legal-case

 

[Sandikan]

If it were one relegation, they'd all have their offshore UAE accounts credited with some inordinate sum of money to stay for the year.

However, City's punishment is likely to be 5+ years expulsion or drop out of EPL/EFL (6 years of successive promotions back assuming Vanarama National League North accept them), so suspect you're right. Their mercenary scummy playing staff will be off to Newcastle.

It's not "likely" is it? That's just what we'd like.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

As good an analysis of *’s challenge with the PL as I’ve read so far. Cuts through a lot of the speculation whirling around this and the other thread…

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/08/manchester-city-premier-league-legal-case

According to this we'll not even find out the result of this hearing. I hadn't realised that!

 

[croadyman]

People keep saying a court of law it’s not it’s an arbitration panel.

Personally I don’t have a problem with the process simply because all clubs have the right to ask a question as it were in what is an independent setting.

We need to look at where we are. City believe or should I say argue that a rule that has been passed is contrary to UK Law.

Now I have no idea of the legal arguments but if legal experts come to the conclusion that the rule is indeed contrary to law then of course it should be either withdrawn or more likely amended

People are being overly dramatic in all this but just reflect and take matters to the extreme say the PL ruled that Utd say had to play all their home games behind close doors for no reason save it rains a lot in Manchester wouldn’t you expect Utd to challenge that even if it meant asking for the matter to go to arbitration

Exactly what I would expect someone who supports a team on City's side is going to say

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

According to this we'll not even find out the result of this hearing. I hadn't realised that!

Well, it’s a private matter I suppose. A member can challenge the League rules at any time but it isn’t a public entity, so is under no obligation to publish to us minions.

A leak, like the one to The Times, or the rules being challenged changing (or not) will likely give us a pretty good clue though!

 

[FujiVice]

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When Jordan drops the gimmick and the clickbait TalkSport instructions, he comes out with some great takes.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

It's not "likely" is it? That's just what we'd like.

When 16 years of coordinated and deliberate corruption and money laundering is proven, you think a minimum of 5 years expulsion is unlikely?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

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He’s obviously right. There’s only a few sets of supporters (and even then, not all) who think this isn’t disgusting.

If City had done this when first taken over and before all the trophies, that’d be one thing but to enter… cheat, lie, prevaricate, throw lawyers at everything and THEN (when all is almost up), sue the league is disgusting.

It’s nothing to do with it being City, but they need to be hammered if found guilty. At least two relegations and every trophy taken off them. Suitable punishment AND deterrent.

If United did this, I’d probably stop supporting them… almost joining a Super League made me fecking angry as it was

 

[whitbyviking]

That Guardian article seems like it is written with the belief city are in the right. Or at least that is my initial view of it.

Interesting point is though they seem to be saying that the Premier League have broken UK law. Does the Premier League, as a private club, need to comply with these laws I suppose is the question.

 

[whitbyviking]

He’s obviously right. There’s only a few sets of supporters (and even then, not all) who think this isn’t disgusting.

If City had done this when first taken over and before all the trophies, that’d be one thing but to enter… cheat, lie, prevaricate, throw lawyers at everything and THEN (when all is almost up), sue the league is disgusting.

It’s nothing to do with it being City, but they need to be hammered if found guilty. At least two relegations and every trophy taken off them. Suitable punishment AND deterrent.

If United did this, I’d probably stop supporting them… almost joining a Super League made me fecking angry as it was

I agree with the final part two, every single away fan should boycott them and anything to do with them next season. They are a threat to the league and to every other team, as if they won this case and the damages then we and their lickspittles pay the bill. I wonder if the likes of Everton etc understand that.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

He’s obviously right. There’s only a few sets of supporters (and even then, not all) who think this isn’t disgusting.

If City had done this when first taken over and before all the trophies, that’d be one thing but to enter… cheat, lie, prevaricate, throw lawyers at everything and THEN (when all is almost up), sue the league is disgusting.

It’s nothing to do with it being City, but they need to be hammered if found guilty. At least two relegations and every trophy taken off them. Suitable punishment AND deterrent.

If United did this, I’d probably stop supporting them… almost joining a Super League made me fecking angry as it was

Their fans are beta/**** mentality. Desperate for the success and recognition United had that they would accept it by any means, even being a sports washing PR organisation for a war crime committing, Human Rights abusing, pariah State.

Forever in our shadow.

 

[Sandikan]

When 16 years of coordinated and deliberate corruption and money laundering is proven, you think a minimum of 5 years expulsion is unlikely?

Exceptionally so.

 

[duffer]

That Guardian article seems like it is written with the belief city are in the right. Or at least that is my initial view of it.

Interesting point is though they seem to be saying that the Premier League have broken UK law. Does the Premier League, as a private club, need to comply with these laws I suppose is the question.

Yes, the Premier League does need to comply with UK law is the answer.

 

[terraloo]

Exactly what I would expect someone who supports a team on City's side is going to say

So you would be ok with the PL passing a rule that is contrary to law ?

I am on the side of due process yet you seem to be suggesting the PL can set rules regardless.

You seem to disagree to the arbitration option because it’s City if the PL didn’t have this route almost certainly they would be taking the matter to the High Court

 

[dwd]

When Jordan drops the gimmick and the clickbait TalkSport instructions, he comes out with some great takes.

I can see why he’s dislikable but I love listening to him.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Exceptionally so.

So how long of a time based punishment reflects nearly two decades of cheating worse than Lance Armstrong?

 

[Sandikan]

So how long of a time based punishment reflects nearly two decades of cheating worse than Lance Armstrong?

What I'd want - owners barred, all titles voided, binned off to the North West local gub division level 10

What will happen? Probably a big fine, couple of windows transfer ban - with a decent notice before hand and points ban or if we're very lucky a single tier relegation. Nothing done to the titles.

 

[Zaphod2319]

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[doubleohseven]

That Guardian article seems like it is written with the belief city are in the right. Or at least that is my initial view of it.

Interesting point is though they seem to be saying that the Premier League have broken UK law. Does the Premier League, as a private club, need to comply with these laws I suppose is the question.

The Guardian is a useful newspaper when it comes to exposing government corruption and the like, but it's sport pages are painful.

If you go to BTL and mention sportswashing, you will most likely have your comment removed and your account soon deactivated. The best bit is how they advertise themselves as 'fighting sportswashing' but gush over Guardiola, de Bruyne and such.

A smart media company that, burning the candle at both ends, but it's desperately disappointing otherwise.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They’re killing the league. The rest of the teams shouldn’t just break away and form a new one. City not being in it won’t affect its popularity at all given they’re a shit little fraud operation anyway.

 

[RedRocket9908]

They’re killing the league. The rest of the teams shouldn’t just break away and form a new one. City not being in it won’t affect its popularity at all given they’re a shit little fraud operation anyway.

I think City, Newcastle, Everton, and anyone else backing City should break away and form their own league where they can set their own rules and spend as much as they want.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

What I'd want - owners barred, all titles voided, binned off to the North West local gub division level 10

What will happen? Probably a big fine, couple of windows transfer ban - with a decent notice before hand and points ban or if we're very lucky a single tier relegation. Nothing done to the titles.

The PL are both feet in with this one and City know they're fecked. That's why we're seeing desperate legal stalling tactics, trying to get as many more golden eggs out of the hen before it's head gets cut off.

 

[croadyman]

I think City, Newcastle, Everton, and anyone else backing City should break away and form their own league where they can set their own rules and spend as much as they want.

Yeah boot them as well then they all happily go somewhere and play by their own rules

 

[chris123]

Might be nothing but I've just started noticing that Man City "to be relegated" has started dropping dramatically on bookies.

To give you an example, bet365 in the past couple of weeks has dropped them to 16/1 from 2000/1. 16/1 still feels like long odds when you consider the charges against them but it's not nothing..

 

[lysglimt]

Yeah boot them as well then they all happily go somewhere and play by their own rules

What I have heard (not sure if its true) is that Newcastle agree with City in certain areas - but are not willing to do anything that will alienate them with the other clubs. So they will not back City 100%

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

The Guardian is a useful newspaper when it comes to exposing government corruption and the like, but it's sport pages are painful.

Agree with you entirely, the lucidity of the article above made it stand out from the usual guff for me.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Thoughts? Joleon Lescott thinks fans are too stupid to know that City are massive cheats

Poll please:

As a football fan, are you too stupid to know that City are massive cheats?

Yes

No

 

[stevoc]

Poll please:

As a football fan, are you too stupid to know that City are massive cheats?

Yes

No

But if a football fan was too stupid to realize City have been cheating all these years. Would they be smart enough to realize they are stupid?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Poll please:

As a football fan, are you too stupid to know that City are massive cheats?

Yes

No

Bold of you to assume that any of us can read.

 

[Fortitude]

There are plenty on this site peddling the IF found guilty line to this very day who will be siding with City, even as non-City fans, if they aren’t charged.

 

[izak]

First hearing is tomorrow right?

 

[Sassy Colin]

Bold of you to assume that any of us can read.

Tagline checks out

 

[Ayoba]

First hearing is tomorrow right?

Yes, starts tomorrow. Behind closed doors, so not sure whether the press will have any updates on how it's going, other than the final verdict.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Might be nothing but I've just started noticing that Man City "to be relegated" has started dropping dramatically on bookies.

To give you an example, bet365 in the past couple of weeks has dropped them to 16/1 from 2000/1. 16/1 still feels like long odds when you consider the charges against them but it's not nothing..

This was the same as the FA Cup final weekend and a helpful person on here explained that this is not really that exciting.

According to the poster who replied to me, someone betting on them even with a small stake can massively affect the odds

 

[Red Dreams]

Yes. the Premier league does need to comply with UK law.

What City will have to prove is the Premier League violated articles and rules all the clubs had previously agreed to.
That is all the Court will look at.
There is no way those 115 charges would have been brought if City had complied with the articles and rules all clubs had previously agreed to.

This is nothing but a last desperate attempt by the City owners to save face with their fans.

They know they are screwed.

 

[DarkLord1984]

I have been a United fan for over 30 years, since Cantona first signed for the club.

I've seen the rivalries and the battles over the years, but nothing in football makes me as angry as Manchester City and what they have done - and are continuing to do - to this league.

It is absolutely abhorrent that this small time, mid table club was able to become a powerhouse in world football purely down to blatant and obvious cheating. Their *treble was one of the most nauseating things I'd ever seen, especially all of the articles fawning over Guardiola - whilst continually ignoring how they got there in the first place. Not to mention they won the CL in a season where they shouldn't have even been in the CL in the first place.

Nobody seemed to care when they were purchased by the Sheikh, as we were the dominant team in the league at the time, and therefore they weren't fussed if they upset United's dominance. So they've allowed this monster to be created by allowing this awful owner to buy the club who expects to get his own way all of the time, and refuses to be told "no" about anything. Now, it's come back to bite them in a big way.

If this rotten, evil little club somehow squirm their way out of this, the league is as good as over.

Let's hope that they lose this case, the 115 charges stick, and that this rotten club is banished forever so that the game can finally have a chance to recover.

 

[Red Company]

I have been a United fan for over 30 years, since Cantona first signed for the club.

I've seen the rivalries and the battles over the years, but nothing in football makes me as angry as Manchester City and what they have done - and are continuing to do - to this league.

It is absolutely abhorrent that this small time, mid table club was able to become a powerhouse in world football purely down to blatant and obvious cheating. Their *treble was one of the most nauseating things I'd ever seen, especially all of the articles fawning over Guardiola - whilst continually ignoring how they got there in the first place. Not to mention they won the CL in a season where they shouldn't have even been in the CL in the first place.

Nobody seemed to care when they were purchased by the Sheikh, as we were the dominant team in the league at the time, and therefore they weren't fussed if they upset United's dominance. So they've allowed this monster to be created by allowing this awful owner to buy the club who expects to get his own way all of the time, and refuses to be told "no" about anything. Now, it's come back to bite them in a big way.

If this rotten, evil little club somehow squirm their way out of this, the league is as good as over.

Let's hope that they lose this case, the 115 charges stick, and that this rotten club is banished forever so that the game can finally have a chance to recover.

As much as I agree with everything you said..

Referring to the bolded part of your post; let’s be honest, this club is not going anywhere. At best, their trophies during that specific period in question might get taken away and rewarded to us and others instead. And they could face relegation.

But they’ll never be banished forever. They’ll be back and always remain in the conversation of winning.

 

[antohan]

I'm not 100% on the tax laws, however I think you are liable for UK tax if you are domiciled in the UK and being paid by a UK company.
My son works for a Swedish firm but pays UK income tax.

That’s not how the Middle East works as no income tax is paid on any wages/salary paid into that country. It would be very difficult to ask Mancini to pay 50% Uk income tax on 4 days work in their country where he was paid 5 million dirhams.

One, he would be paid into an account set up specifically for this reason and two, I doubt if the amount paid is even known to UK HMRC, it’s not as if Mancini and others would not have Middle East or European Bank Accounts (Swiss/Monaco) for this very reason.

If you are domiciled in the UK you have to pay tax on global income, wherever it accrues. You can deduct foreign tax expenses in cases where there's a treaty to avoid double taxation.

It doesn't matter where your bank account is. It makes it harder to establish the taxable income, sure, but if it materialises somehow e.g. via Panama Papers or similar, you are up the creek as you would have lied in your tax return.

You can make the case that you are NOT domiciled in the UK but elsewhere, have no intention to stay, etc. In that case you get taxed on the greater of income received in the UK (i.e. paid into a UK bank account) or the share of global income corresponding to days you spent in the UK.

However, non-domiciled status can only be claimed for three years and I'd guess most players (maybe not managers) have contracts that run for longer than that so they probably dismiss the non-dom argument outright.

 

[stevoc]

As much as I agree with everything you said..

Referring to the bolded part of your post; let’s be honest, this club is not going anywhere. At best, their trophies during that specific period in question might get taken away and rewarded to us and others instead. And they could face relegation.

But they’ll never be banished forever. They’ll be back and always remain in the conversation of winning.

Of course they won't be banished forever, nor should they be. Let's not forget its their owners who cheated. So while they need punished and hopefully a forced change of ownership their fans don't deserve to see their club banned forever.

 

[Zen86]

Of course they won't be banished forever, nor should they be. Let's not forget its their owners who cheated. So while they need punished and hopefully a forced change of ownership their fans don't deserve to see their club banned forever.

I don’t know about that..