City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th September 2024

tomaldinho1 said:
Ok so 5 subs I agree with, it favours the bigger squads, I do think there’s a secondary argument here that PL teams have the disadvantage of extra games (Carabao) and no winter break (and that’s going again although Chelsea and City won the CL in that period).

Expanding the CL ruins your point, the more places the more chance of other teams getting in. Your point would be the top clubs restricting the big money for others but the reality is there’s more access to European money than before. Poor argument.

If you’re an Everton fan you’d know that was a fact re Bayern and Real. See here. You might have just blown your cover if other posters are correct about you being a City fan.

Re points deduction it’s about psr, you know this and it’s not hard to adhere to. Every club has the same rules. Re Everton in Europe, exactly, which is why when a club has cheated and taken your CL or EL place you should hate them. Tell me what the difference is between you before the awful spending and Villa now, you’ve just recruited poorly.

Im completely confused by the last para. United aren’t trying to fix any rules?
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Net spend + wages I said, v Bayern we wouldn’t even be close not a chance. Without taking wages into account we are 10th in the premier league spend from your source(interesting got a wages or combined one?) since 2014 other teams near double net spend and if you take into account wages it will be double triple quadruple spend with league rivals. if you want to catch up you have to invest heavily before you get revenue like most business. Only problem is it’s not allowed.

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost429

Our peak spend I believe was 6th and we finished 8th twice and since then FFP kicked in made to sell our players. The Ukraine war and stadium sent us over FFP. Fair play to Villa they’ve done well, see how long it lasts with FFP kicking in for them as well. Watkins to the cartel on the cheap is on the cards. Funny how Newcastle and Villa have to sell for FFP when they should be kicking on. No protecting the top 6 there clearly.


My issue with champions league expansion is I thought you guys couldn’t play more games yet more games? Just brings more revenue in a Mickey Mouse competition that’s rigged with coefficients so the same teams get through every year. 5 places to the premier league teams benefits the cartel so does prior league finishes gets you in.

The difference in revenue between 4th and 5th as Everton know very well form under Moyes is near impossible to breach without huge investment. Like Newcastle, Villa and City. And even when you do get top 4 you get a stinking group(coefficients) and not allowed to spend.

MUFC and Liverpool have way too much say on FFP hence the meeting with Richard Masters before he was signed off as league chairman. Corrupt. You think FFP is not heavily guided by them 2? And in their interest and the interest of sponsors? The idea is shut everyone else out. I guess that’s when the 12 minutes added time was added as well + VAR “clear and obvious”
Stick it to them City I say.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-enrage-rivals-21470741.amp
 
Zaphod2319 said:
This means the two hotels sold count against our FFP and we are no longer on the list of sales needed.
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If the club own the hotels, they should b able to sell them for profit however selling them to themselves is just more corruption but that was 11/20 vote, So Chelsea are financially now not burdened by selling players like Gallagher who they should not sell.

The city 3rd party Sponsors vote will be similar vote, can’t see City wining that vote but you never know?
 
Mullet_Man said:
The Premier League taking an age to bring the charges to City have caused this, they have stuff going back to the Mancini era. They only have themselves to blame for creating the monster that is now City.
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Another new member. Wonder what team you support? Ok, maybe not so new, but still classed as new, and seems to check out as a United fan

You say it’s taken an age for the PL to come to this. I think the PL are still waiting for the financial reports or whatever documents city refused to provide 10 years ago

whose been waiting longer?
 
Dean60 said:
Net spend + wages I said, v Bayern we wouldn’t even be close not a chance. Without taking wages into account we are 10th in the premier league spend from your source(interesting got a wages or combined one?) since 2014 other teams near double net spend and if you take into account wages it will be double triple quadruple spend with league rivals. if you want to catch up you have to invest heavily before you get revenue like most business. Only problem is it’s not allowed.

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost429

Our peak spend I believe was 6th and we finished 8th twice and since then FFP kicked in made to sell our players. The Ukraine war and stadium sent us over FFP. Fair play to Villa they’ve done well, see how long it lasts with FFP kicking in for them as well. Watkins to the cartel on the cheap is on the cards. Funny how Newcastle and Villa have to sell for FFP when they should be kicking on. No protecting the top 6 there clearly.


My issue with champions league expansion is I thought you guys couldn’t play more games yet more games? Just brings more revenue in a Mickey Mouse competition that’s rigged with coefficients so the same teams get through every year. 5 places to the premier league teams benefits the cartel so does prior league finishes gets you in.

The difference in revenue between 4th and 5th as Everton know very well form under Moyes is near impossible to breach without huge investment. Like Newcastle, Villa and City. And even when you do get top 4 you get a stinking group(coefficients) and not allowed to spend.

MUFC and Liverpool have way too much say on FFP hence the meeting with Richard Masters before he was signed off as league chairman. Corrupt. You think FFP is not heavily guided by them 2? And in their interest and the interest of sponsors? The idea is shut everyone else out. I guess that’s when the 12 minutes added time was added as well + VAR “clear and obvious”
Stick it to them City I say.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-enrage-rivals-21470741.amp
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Your mask slipped a long time ago, you can stop pretending to be an Everton fan now :lol:
 
Dean60 said:
Net spend + wages I said, v Bayern we wouldn’t even be close not a chance. Without taking wages into account we are 10th in the premier league spend from your source(interesting got a wages or combined one?) since 2014 other teams near double net spend and if you take into account wages it will be double triple quadruple spend with league rivals. if you want to catch up you have to invest heavily before you get revenue like most business. Only problem is it’s not allowed.

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost429

Our peak spend I believe was 6th and we finished 8th twice and since then FFP kicked in made to sell our players. The Ukraine war and stadium sent us over FFP. Fair play to Villa they’ve done well, see how long it lasts with FFP kicking in for them as well. Watkins to the cartel on the cheap is on the cards. Funny how Newcastle and Villa have to sell for FFP when they should be kicking on. No protecting the top 6 there clearly.


My issue with champions league expansion is I thought you guys couldn’t play more games yet more games? Just brings more revenue in a Mickey Mouse competition that’s rigged with coefficients so the same teams get through every year. 5 places to the premier league teams benefits the cartel so does prior league finishes gets you in.

The difference in revenue between 4th and 5th as Everton know very well form under Moyes is near impossible to breach without huge investment. Like Newcastle, Villa and City. And even when you do get top 4 you get a stinking group(coefficients) and not allowed to spend.

MUFC and Liverpool have way too much say on FFP hence the meeting with Richard Masters before he was signed off as league chairman. Corrupt. You think FFP is not heavily guided by them 2? And in their interest and the interest of sponsors? The idea is shut everyone else out. I guess that’s when the 12 minutes added time was added as well + VAR “clear and obvious”
Stick it to them City I say.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-enrage-rivals-21470741.amp
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I’m not sure where I’d find that but feel the point is quite fair that Everton have spent heavily but poorly compared. Again, not sure about the logic of extra places being good for the few, it literally makes no sense. EL money these days is excellent actually so you are wrong there although back when Everton were there you are likely correct. Even ECC - look at WHUM finances this year - can transform a club.

You keep just saying ‘cartel’ and ignoring the fact it doesn’t exist. If it existed United would want less CL places and less European places in general because the great equaliser in football is European football money. Villa won’t have ffp issues as they will get the CL money (unless they go on a mad spending spree now). I feel like you are so intent on there being some conspiracy you’re not actually thinking through what has happened the last 10+ years and ignoring the rapid rise of clubs outside of this supposed cartel.

You keep just ignoring facts I present so I don’t really get what you’re looking to do here as it doesn’t seem to be having a conversation. No idea why Watkins would move for cheap unless his contract is near finishing but then you can argue this is peak time to sell him if they want to try and cash in (striker who is approaching 30 and quite reliant on pace/acceleration).
 
Zaphod2319 said:
This means the two hotels sold count against our FFP and we are no longer on the list of sales needed.
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The league is so fecking broken. How on earth is selling assets to yourselves to avoid spending rules voted on as being okay?
 
I do think FFP needs revising. The current system can be gamed too easily and it’s quite unbalanced to the point where clubs will always feel bitter or unfairly treated if they come on the wrong side of it. A form of FFP is needed, but it needs to be more rigid and greater equality across the league.
 
Woodzy said:
The league is so fecking broken. How on earth is selling assets to yourselves to avoid spending rules voted on as being okay?
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They didn't vote on selling assets to yourself, the vote was about selling assets which most clubs might want the option of doing.

Obviously selling to yourself is ridiculous but that is not what they were voting on.
 
I wonder if football needs total reset. This thing is on way to collapsing and maybe it is good. I thought corona would do some job but didn't. It is tragic what football have become and I feel sorry for kids that they never experienced when football ment something and not just money.

If there was a book about how to push people away from football they are writing it pretty well right now and have been for some years.
 
Redivy said:
If City do receive the worst punishment, which is being booted from the league, or even such a hefty points deduction that they're essentially relegated regardless of how many games they win. Then it will be interesting to see the player auction that happens. None of their players, Foden included, are going to care about loyalty to a team like City. They are all going to be straight out of the door.

You'd like to think most players naturally have a relegation clause in their contract which would allow them a quick and smooth exit.

I can see United, Arsenal, Chelsea being big contenders for their players.
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If it were one relegation, they'd all have their offshore UAE accounts credited with some inordinate sum of money to stay for the year.

However, City's punishment is likely to be 5+ years expulsion or drop out of EPL/EFL (6 years of successive promotions back assuming Vanarama National League North accept them), so suspect you're right. Their mercenary scummy playing staff will be off to Newcastle.
 
duffer said:
They didn't vote on selling assets to yourself, the vote was about selling assets which most clubs might want the option of doing.

Obviously selling to yourself is ridiculous but that is not what they were voting on.
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Okay, that's fair, selling assets is eprectly fine, but I assume it's Chelsea's intention to sell to themselves which I imagine cannot be prevented?
 
duffer said:
They didn't vote on selling assets to yourself, the vote was about selling assets which most clubs might want the option of doing.

Obviously selling to yourself is ridiculous but that is not what they were voting on.
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They know exactly what they're doing. No amount of semantic can cover the cheating.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
This means the two hotels sold count against our FFP and we are no longer on the list of sales needed.
Click to expand...



All this is doing is delaying the inevitable though.

Other big clubs have similar assets they can sell if they need to.

How long before Chelsea sell off the pensioners for FFP?
 
Dean60 said:
Net spend + wages I said, v Bayern we wouldn’t even be close not a chance. Without taking wages into account we are 10th in the premier league spend from your source(interesting got a wages or combined one?) since 2014 other teams near double net spend and if you take into account wages it will be double triple quadruple spend with league rivals. if you want to catch up you have to invest heavily before you get revenue like most business. Only problem is it’s not allowed.

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost429

Our peak spend I believe was 6th and we finished 8th twice and since then FFP kicked in made to sell our players. The Ukraine war and stadium sent us over FFP. Fair play to Villa they’ve done well, see how long it lasts with FFP kicking in for them as well. Watkins to the cartel on the cheap is on the cards. Funny how Newcastle and Villa have to sell for FFP when they should be kicking on. No protecting the top 6 there clearly.


My issue with champions league expansion is I thought you guys couldn’t play more games yet more games? Just brings more revenue in a Mickey Mouse competition that’s rigged with coefficients so the same teams get through every year. 5 places to the premier league teams benefits the cartel so does prior league finishes gets you in.

The difference in revenue between 4th and 5th as Everton know very well form under Moyes is near impossible to breach without huge investment. Like Newcastle, Villa and City. And even when you do get top 4 you get a stinking group(coefficients) and not allowed to spend.

MUFC and Liverpool have way too much say on FFP hence the meeting with Richard Masters before he was signed off as league chairman. Corrupt. You think FFP is not heavily guided by them 2? And in their interest and the interest of sponsors? The idea is shut everyone else out. I guess that’s when the 12 minutes added time was added as well + VAR “clear and obvious”
Stick it to them City I say.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-enrage-rivals-21470741.amp
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Take this shit to Bluemoon where it belongs.
 
duffer said:
People have been saying that for decades now but the game keeps getting more popular.
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Is it?

There is more money in it. That is for sure. However, I would say it has lost its way and is less popular nowdays.
 
duffer said:
Attendances and viewing figures are not going down, are they?
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In France for example it's definitely less popular. UEFA are struggling to find networks to purchase the remaining packets of games, TF1 and M6 (2 big, free to air channels) made a low offer to show them all for free and UEFA is refusing so far. As it stands, not all games would be shown in France. It'll certainly be resolved by the time the tournament starts but it's revealing.

In general I feel I speak with people that are less and less passionate about it. I think football in general has much better marketing and money but I don't agree it's more popular no. I think people are getting disillusioned.
 
How can selling an asset to a sister company be okay? Feck it all!
 
duffer said:
That is interesting but in England viewing figures and match attendances are both going up.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3636215

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.li...ier-league-attendance-only-going-28378783.amp


I appreciate that your friends might be less interested in the game but certainly in England, it's going up, not down.
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I guess it depends on what you're putting under the umbrella "popular" - as the poster mentioned "losing its way", I felt they also meant on a more subjective level. I personally still watch a lot of football but am quite disillusioned by the whole system. There's been a book published highlighting how sad the whole system has become and how it's going to get worse. I feel there's finally a bit of a movement in the media to be critical of City, the way the PSR rules can be circumvented, etc. - light movement, but moreso than before. And just in general, I feel people being disillusioned by football, judging by this forum, by chatting with people who follow football, is stronger than ever before.

I feel you disagree, that's fine, but I don't think viewing figures is the only way to judge this element.
Adisa said:
How can selling an asset to a sister company be okay? Feck it all!
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It's entirely ridiculous.
 
Too much smoke for their to be no fire at the end of all of this. Sadly, I suspect it's going to be a case akin to the abusive ex who subscribes to the notion of "if I can't have them, nobody else can" and they go postal, blowing up the already creaking foundations the PL sits on. It's the beginning of the end of the PL era as we know it. Lovely day out, though.
 
Adisa said:
How can selling an asset to a sister company be okay? Feck it all!
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Don't forget, they even added management fees paid to Chelsea as part of the deal (basically Chelsea would still be managing the hotels, but not own them, so the "owner" pays Chelsea a fee every year for "managing the hotels"), making it even more ludicrous.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I feel you disagree, that's fine, but I don't think viewing figures is the only way to judge this element.
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Attendances, viewing figures and number of people playing the game are the only ways you can objectively judge the games popularity over long periods though. All those metrics are on the up (in England at least).

Everything else kinda boils down to "me and my mates don't care as much" for a variety of (perfectly reasonable) reasons. I don't care as much as I once did but that down to me getting old and Chelsea being shite.
 
duffer said:
Attendances, viewing figures and number of people playing the game are the only ways you can objectively judge the games popularity over long periods though. All those metrics are on the up (in England at least).

Everything else kinda boils down to "me and my mates don't care as much" for a variety of (perfectly reasonable) reasons. I don't care as much as I once did but that down to me getting old and Chelsea being shite.
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But it's not a purely objective topic.
 
duffer said:
But the number of people going to games, watching games and playing the game is part of the topic which can be looked at objectively.
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I'm not dismissing them - I'm saying it only gives the vision of a little part of the topic. I'm not disagreeing with you on the numbers, just saying there's more to it!
 
Rooney in Paris said:
I'm not dismissing them - I'm saying it only gives the vision of a little part of the topic. I'm not disagreeing with you on the numbers, just saying there's more to it!
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At this point I'm not really sure we're talking about the same topic so probably best to get back to Man City and financial doping!
 
Garnacho's Shoelaces said:
If it were one relegation, they'd all have their offshore UAE accounts credited with some inordinate sum of money to stay for the year.

However, City's punishment is likely to be 5+ years expulsion or drop out of EPL/EFL (6 years of successive promotions back assuming Vanarama National League North accept them), so suspect you're right. Their mercenary scummy playing staff will be off to Newcastle.
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They can't really do that, whilst the barcodes may have the buying power, they don't have the profits as a commercial business to spend that kind of money, unless of course they do a Chelsea and amortise the contracts over 8 - 10 years
 
Dean60 said:
Net spend + wages I said, v Bayern we wouldn’t even be close not a chance. Without taking wages into account we are 10th in the premier league spend from your source(interesting got a wages or combined one?) since 2014 other teams near double net spend and if you take into account wages it will be double triple quadruple spend with league rivals. if you want to catch up you have to invest heavily before you get revenue like most business. Only problem is it’s not allowed.

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost429

Our peak spend I believe was 6th and we finished 8th twice and since then FFP kicked in made to sell our players. The Ukraine war and stadium sent us over FFP. Fair play to Villa they’ve done well, see how long it lasts with FFP kicking in for them as well. Watkins to the cartel on the cheap is on the cards. Funny how Newcastle and Villa have to sell for FFP when they should be kicking on. No protecting the top 6 there clearly.


My issue with champions league expansion is I thought you guys couldn’t play more games yet more games? Just brings more revenue in a Mickey Mouse competition that’s rigged with coefficients so the same teams get through every year. 5 places to the premier league teams benefits the cartel so does prior league finishes gets you in.

The difference in revenue between 4th and 5th as Everton know very well form under Moyes is near impossible to breach without huge investment. Like Newcastle, Villa and City. And even when you do get top 4 you get a stinking group(coefficients) and not allowed to spend.

MUFC and Liverpool have way too much say on FFP hence the meeting with Richard Masters before he was signed off as league chairman. Corrupt. You think FFP is not heavily guided by them 2? And in their interest and the interest of sponsors? The idea is shut everyone else out. I guess that’s when the 12 minutes added time was added as well + VAR “clear and obvious”
Stick it to them City I say.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpool-man-utd-enrage-rivals-21470741.amp
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We should be able to hide all your posts under spoiler tabs so I don't have to scroll through the terrible content.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Levers?
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It would seem we (Chelsea fans) have 8 more years of Boehly and Clearlake…. but yes, this is as close to Barcelona behavior as you can get. It is all perfectly legal accounting measures, but truly bizarre.
 
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