Unpopular Opinion | Not sacking Ten Hag

[Fallon d'Floor]

Onana
Malacia
Lisandro
Mount (although he wanted De Jong)
Højlund (although he wanted Kane)

These were Ten Haag signings imo. The others were hoisted upon him last minute in desperation because he couldn't get who he wanted. Similar to Van Goal and the others.

Eriksen and Antony were also his signings. Our scouts didn't rate Antony that highly.

Amrabat was someone we were linked with all last summer. He has been managed by ten Hag before. Now he's just an expensive loan who flopped.

Mount was signed a year after the FdJ fiasco. Totally different profile. Eriksen was the cheaper FdJ alternative.

ten Hag has said that he would have liked to have signed both FdJ and Caemiro, so we can no longer blame the club on that one either.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I’d be surprised if ETH is kept on to be honest.

But people need to realise that SJR has said all along that he wants the right people in the right positions. He wants the manager to get the right support because Manchester United managers haven’t been getting it.

ETH hasn’t had good support. Spending 400 million does not mean he has had the right support anymore then spending over a billion on a squad means Poch has had double the support spent on the squad.

The truth is that none of us know what sort of process SJR wants or is working towards. He’s clearly not interested in knee jerk decisions while the more important are not in place beyond the manager.

The issue with alot of you is this obsession with sacking managers really fast for instant change. SJR didn’t buy the football side for instant results and he’s set out a 3 year timeframe to get the club back into a position to challange properly.

“But why can he sack ETH, Does that mean all managers are gonna be kept on when underperforming?”. No, I think it means that when we have a proper structure things will be done faster and more efficiently.

But until then we have to give SJR/INEOs time to get the Old Trafford house in order. “But a well run club would sack ETH”. Where have we these fans been the last 11 years ? United has been run so badly it’s not funny. But some of these fans seem to bank most things on “sack the manager faster” as some sort of weird panacea and barometer of judging SJR.

Im not gunning for ETH to get the chop , I’d be ok with him next season but I wouldn’t blame INEOs for replacing him.

 

[El Jefe]

People have been saying this, but it’s extremely unlikely. Why? Because unless the players are bought out of their contracts or subsidised, it is just the Maguire loop run on infinite.

There’s going to be massive disappointment regarding sales come the end of summer. You need oil money to truly purge a squad.

I think if this was under the Glazers that’s a possibility but for INEOS it’s the perfect chance to get rid of underachievers. Also helps that the no CL clause in contracts reduces wages so maybe some will be forced to look elsewhere.

I maintain we wouldn’t need as big of a squad so we can ship out many players without needing them to be replaced. We started the season with VDB, Hannibal, Amad, Pellestri in the squad with them getting pointless minutes.

I think the key for us this summer is understanding why so many injuries, though they have reduced a bit. If you want a smaller squad they need to be fitter than they’ve been this year.

 

[Lash]

Yeah, Casemiro definitely was "hoisted upon" him even though he mentioned in a recent interview that he wanted to play a midfield of Case and De Jong.

Also, I am sure he was forced to go for Amrabat. Poor 'Aggy!

Hojlund came from his own agency, again hoisted upon 'Aggy, this time by his own people. (Did we check Ten Hack's bank accounts right after the deal was concluded?)

He moved to the agency just before he moved, which I always find a bit dodgy, but we have a good relationship with Atalanta so we probably were interested regardless.

There was a bit in the Athletic pod about the Weghorst and Amrabaat signings that essentially the recruitment team (Murtogh and co) basically couldn't get their act together in sourcing players, so Ten Hag just stepped in and they happily let him. This is something that I hope a new structure would never let happen and Ashworth & Berrarda have far better contacts throughout Europe to do deals.

This isn't a reason to keep Ten Hag by the way, but I do think it's a bit like Murtogh and he's out of his depth in the all encompassing manager role, so I understand why he's failed quite spectacularly. Is it beyond repair with a new structure? Most probably, but I think there's a slither of hope for him if the footballing structure agree with his vision.

 

[SuperiorXI]

If he sanctions the sale of one of his own under-performing players this summer (like Onana/Mount/Antony) to make way for a better player, it will do wonders for my belief in him.

Sometimes you don't always get it right, but you mustn't be afraid to correct a mistake. I need to at least see that attitude in him cause he's fecked up so much this year.

It still doesn't remove my doubts on his tactical and injury management ability though.

He shouldn't even be in this position, he should be involved in conversations about signings and sellings but he shouldn't be making the decision, modern structures don't work like that. He is a coach but he is being asked to be head of recruitment and director of football? It's all wrong.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Disagree. The sad fact is that we simply aren’t a CL standard team anymore and need to build towards this goal. Europa is our level and even that is a stretch. We are a fallen giant, a huge club with small team quality.

This is my worry too. If we do what we’ve always done, we will only get what we have always got. We need to try something else. We need to back the manager, give him support and guidance and let him build.

ETH may have been responsible for choosing the targets, but I refuse to blame him for the money spent. That is squarely on the club and Murtough who clearly couldn’t negotiate their way out of a paper bag. The old way has been terrible at doing deals, hopefully the new way puts that right.

If INEOS and the new directors are going to set a club style of play that is implemented through out our teams, then ETH will have to coach to this style. This removes his interpretation of tactics and sets clear boundaries for him to coach to. I’m much more optimistic about our playing style in this regard. I think we will see an improvement next season even if we stick with Erik.
I agree. Trying a new way is long overdue!
hey, can’t knock a guy for trying! It’s hard to build a narrative without a little exaggeration!!

He’s better than Luke Shaw don’t ya know!

If we had spent 300 million on the same players, that still wouldn't have represented value for money. Terrible talent ID.

The old structure who hired ten Hag are now gone. Not only were they poor at handling transfers, they were shit at appointing managers.

 

[spwd]

Why did this need a thread when you've basically said what the eth defenders keep saying in the proper eth thread?
You're saying nothing new and it's already been said a million times before in the other thread.
Pointless to start a separate thread.

 

[spiriticon]

He shouldn't even be in this position, he should be involved in conversations about signings and sellings but he shouldn't be making the decision, modern structures don't work like that. He is a coach but he is being asked to be head of recruitment and director of football? It's all wrong.

This is a relic of our football structure from the Fergie times (which is now changing). It's famously known that is how we operate. Our managers always have a big say in transfers, and I'd even bet that's a big reason why he was tempted to take this job.

He would have known all this even before he signed on the dotted line, I don't see it as an excuse for him.

 

[Plant0x84]

Why did this need a thread when you've basically said what the eth defenders keep saying in the proper eth thread?
You're saying nothing new and it's already been said a million times before in the other thread.
Pointless to start a separate thread.

I think this thread is important. It should be a safe space for those who are unsure about sacking the manager can discuss their concerns without constantly getting shouted down by the sack happy mob, or dismissed as ETH-cultists or defenders.
Kudos to @Nickelodeon for having the bravery to start this threat, and give his options in a clear and concise way. There is too much anger and shouting in the other thread for it to be very constructive at present.

 

[Marching On!]

Based on this year (or since the Carabao Cup final if I’m being honest) he doesn’t deserve another season.

If I could see small green shoots, like our performances were promising but we weren’t just getting the results, that would be one thing. Or if he was getting results but the performances were poor, you can say he’s getting results despite not playing well.

He’s doing neither. Performances have been putrid since the Newcastle final. We’re 35 games into a league season with a goal difference of - 3 and look set to finish eighth. Unwanted records keep being made with every passing week. We look worse now than we did against Wolves on the opening game of the season. How far do we have to sink to say enough is enough? He either doesn’t have the ability to fix the issues, or refuses to do so. Either way it’s the same outcome.

A lot of the players need to be shown on the door, but there’s no way in hell they’re this bad. These internationals are not doing the absolute basics, and for me that’s on the coach.

Bring in Tuchel.

 

[Rista]

Keeping Ten Hag will not "change the culture" either. Neither will bringing in another manager mean "these" players get a clean slate. It's a logical fallacy after logical fallacy. Judge the manager as you would judge anybody else and it's clear he has not been good enough. Manager needs to go, certain players need to be sold. It's that simple. "Let's back the manager and see what happens!" is not a serious plan.

 

[Judas]

a couple of months ago I could have got behind the idea, as long as we did a lot of good buisness in the summer. But he's given so little to be enthusastic about. It's been appalling lately, I've no belief in him and genuinely don't think he deserves anymore time. He's failed too much at this point.

 

[Insanity]

He moved to the agency just before he moved, which I always find a bit dodgy, but we have a good relationship with Atalanta so we probably were interested regardless.

There was a bit in the Athletic pod about the Weghorst and Amrabaat signings that essentially the recruitment team (Murtogh and co) basically couldn't get their act together in sourcing players, so Ten Hag just stepped in and they happily let him. This is something that I hope a new structure would never let happen and Ashworth & Berrarda have far better contacts throughout Europe to do deals."

This isn't a reason to keep Ten Hag by the way, but I do think it's a bit like Murtogh and he's out of his depth in the all encompassing manager role, so I understand why he's failed quite spectacularly. Is it beyond repair with a new structure? Most probably, but I think there's a slither of hope for him if the footballing structure agree with his vision.

What his vision?

The signings that "he had to step in for" are all bad to mediocre. Which suggests that even after a season in the league he couldn't figure out what quality of player was required to succeed in this league.

The style of football is crap and is figured out by every team in the league from the top to the bottom. Does Martinez out mean that we cannot even compete with the likes of Bournemoth, Burnley or Wolves? We got beaten and bruised even earlier in the season, both in the league and the championship league, with nearly everyone available. What was the excuse then?

Now somehow ETH is going to make us a challenger with the signings that Wilcox and Berada are going to make for him. How much suspension of disbelief does one need to buy into that nonsense? Let's be honest, it was Rashford's goals that were responsible for us making the top 4 last season (we made a hard work of that too) and an easier than usual schedule in the league cup.

Let me ask his fans a question: From what we have witnessed so far, what makes you confident that this is the right man to get us back challenging again?

 

[spiriticon]

Keeping Ten Hag will not "change the culture" either. Neither will bringing in another manager mean "these" players get a clean slate. It's a logical fallacy after logical fallacy. Judge the manager as you would judge anybody else and it's clear he has not been good enough. Manager needs to go, certain players need to be sold. It's that simple. "Let's back the manager and see what happens!" is not a serious plan.

The conundrum is this: You'll never see a 5-year plan come to fruition if you don't give anybody 5 years.

Everybody dreams of a long-term manager but then lose interest after 2 years.

Is ETH the right man to give 5 years to? Questionable. I personally think Ole or (controversial opinion alert) LVG deserved it more. But it's too late for them now and our current reality is ETH.

 

[mintyred]

https://ibb.co/fvW8bR1
https://ibb.co/mF9THSF
This season’s records

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I’d be surprised if ETH is kept on to be honest.

But people need to realise that SJR has said all along that he wants the right people in the right positions. He wants the manager to get the right support because Manchester United managers haven’t been getting it.

ETH hasn’t had good support. Spending 400 million does not mean he has had the right support anymore then spending over a billion on a squad means Poch has had double the support spent on the squad.

The truth is that none of us know what sort of process SJR wants or is working towards. He’s clearly not interested in knee jerk decisions while the more important are not in place beyond the manager.

The issue with alot of you is this obsession with sacking managers really fast for instant change. SJR didn’t buy the football side for instant results and he’s set out a 3 year timeframe to get the club back into a position to challange properly.

“But why can he sack ETH, Does that mean all managers are gonna be kept on when underperforming?”. No, I think it means that when we have a proper structure things will be done faster and more efficiently.

But until then we have to give SJR/INEOs time to get the Old Trafford house in order. “But a well run club would sack ETH”. Where have we these fans been the last 11 years ? United has been run so badly it’s not funny. But some of these fans seem to bank most things on “sack the manager faster” as some sort of weird panacea and barometer of judging SJR.

Im not gunning for ETH to get the chop , I’d be ok with him next season but I wouldn’t blame INEOs for replacing him.

ten Hag has experienced unprecedented levels of control and influence compared to his predecessors. The closest to what SAF had.

The club made sure that they got players he selected. Even if they had to overpay for some of them. From a club perspective, they should have walked away from the Antony deal instead of forcing it through. They got ten Hag his man and he has flopped spectacularly.

Kane is the only target that they didn't negotiate a fee for. It just wasn't feasible. Spurs prefer to sell to foreign clubs since Berbatov left for United in 2008. Had we signed Kane last summer, that would probably have been ten Hag's only signing last summer. People would then be complaining that ten Hag didn't get a new GK (De Gea stays on) and that the midfield wasn't addressed.

They have fully backed ten Hag in terms of squad discipline. They allowed him to scold Ronaldo and released him from his contract. Sancho was someone who the club chased for years and was large investment. They allowed ten Hag to remove him from the squad and go out on loan. Mourinho never got this level of support. The club chose the players over him. Pogba and Martial won that war.

ten Hag wanted this level of control. He wanted to have a large say in transfers.

He hasn't been able to wield his influence to achieve what was expected of him.

 

[Rista]

The conundrum is this: You'll never see a 5-year plan come to fruition if you don't give anybody 5 years.

Everybody dreams of long-term manager but then lose interest after 2 years.

Is ETH the right man to give 5 years to? Questionable. I personally think Ole or (controversial opinion alert) LVG deserved it more. But it's too late for them now and our current reality is ETH.

This one is simple. Nobody deserves 5 years no questions asked. No serious club on the planet does this, for a good reason. The solution is, do not dream of long term managers, do not dream of another SAF because chances of it happening are extremely slim. We do not need a long term manager to be successful, especially now.

 

[El Zoido]

I’d be surprised if ETH is kept on to be honest.

But people need to realise that SJR has said all along that he wants the right people in the right positions. He wants the manager to get the right support because Manchester United managers haven’t been getting it.

ETH hasn’t had good support. Spending 400 million does not mean he has had the right support anymore then spending over a billion on a squad means Poch has had double the support spent on the squad.

The truth is that none of us know what sort of process SJR wants or is working towards. He’s clearly not interested in knee jerk decisions while the more important are not in place beyond the manager.

The issue with alot of you is this obsession with sacking managers really fast for instant change. SJR didn’t buy the football side for instant results and he’s set out a 3 year timeframe to get the club back into a position to challange properly.

“But why can he sack ETH, Does that mean all managers are gonna be kept on when underperforming?”. No, I think it means that when we have a proper structure things will be done faster and more efficiently.

But until then we have to give SJR/INEOs time to get the Old Trafford house in order. “But a well run club would sack ETH”. Where have we these fans been the last 11 years ? United has been run so badly it’s not funny. But some of these fans seem to bank most things on “sack the manager faster” as some sort of weird panacea and barometer of judging SJR.

Im not gunning for ETH to get the chop , I’d be ok with him next season but I wouldn’t blame INEOs for replacing him.

Pretty much agree. Football fans are so fickle though, everything happens in the moment. You’re only as good as your last game. There’s no rush to sack him and it won’t solve anything in the long term. It won’t necessarily solve anything in the short term either, nor guarantee the FA Cup. The season is about over now, we have a summer ahead. I don’t see Ten Hag staying on, but we’ll sack him when we have a succession plan and not just because. A lot has to change at this football club.

 

[spiriticon]

This one is simple. Nobody deserves 5 years no questions asked. No serious club on the planet does this, for a good reason. The solution is, do not dream of long term managers, do not dream of another SAF because chances of it happening are extremely slim. We do not need a long term manager to be successful, especially now.

I have also come to that conclusion myself after many years, which is why I think Tuchel is the best realistic option for us until we find the next young pretender (or if Tuchel himself does a fantastic job).

But staying on topic, I can also see why people want to give ETH more time. It's difficult to drop an idea that's been hammered into you for a long time. You also never know the future: ETH could very well improve significantly next season.

 

[Carl]

Onana
Bayındır
Malacia
Lisandro
Evans
Kambwala
Casemiro
Amrabat
Mainoo
Eriksen
Mount
Antony
Garnacho
Højlund

14 of the current 26 man squad are his signings/loans/promotions. Forson should probably be included also. 15/27.

There has already been a massive overhaul from the end of the Ole/Rangnick season. Lots of players didn't outlast the last fiasco.

De Gea
Henderson
Grant
Telles
Jones
Tuanzebe
Bailly
Matić
Garner
Pogba
Fred
Andreas
Mata
Lingard
Chong
Elanga
Ronaldo
Cavani

We're at a stage where we could sell at least half of ten Hag's signings. We've spent €445 million and don't have a lot to show for it.

It's maddening how many times I've seen people say things like "this squad shouldn't be allowed to throw another manager under the bus" despite the fact the overwhelming majority never played for the previous manager.

 

[Oranges038]

Stop it. Garnahco spent 5 weeks with the 1st team late last season. He's ten Hag's player. He made the decision to use him regularly. Gave him his 1st start.

As I said, ten Hag had both Antony and Amad available and decided to start Forson instead. That's not out of necessity.

You're fuming. Haha.

Nah.

Just think it's nonsensical to include youth team players as his signings, especially ones who were involved in the team before he arrived. Also think it's absolute rubbish to read the same circular crap posted over and over again in a different thread. The ETH thread has the same discussion every day, then this pops up and it's the same crap again.

So again, not fuming, I just don't see the point in the same posters posting the same crap every time his name pops up.

 

[Lash]

What his vision?

The signings that "he had to step in for" are all bad to mediocre. Which suggests that even after a season in the league he couldn't figure out what quality of player was required to succeed in this league.

The style of football is crap and is figured out by every team in the league from the top to the bottom. Does Martinez out mean that we cannot even compete with the likes of Bournemoth, Burnley or Wolves? We got beaten and bruised even earlier in the season, both in the league and the championship league, with nearly everyone available. What was the excuse then?

Now somehow ETH is going to make us a challenger with the signings that Wilcox and Berada are going to make for him. How much suspension of disbelief does one need to buy into that nonsense? Let's be honest, it was Rashford's goals that were responsible for us making the top 4 last season (we made a hard work of that too) and an easier than usual schedule in the league cup.

Let me ask his fans a question: From what we have witnessed so far, what makes you confident that this is the right man to get us back challenging again?

From what he talks about, he wants to be a quick transition side that squeezes the opposition high up the pitch. Inevitably leaving a shit tonne of space to cover if you give the ball away as cheaply as we do and we have absolute carthorses all over the pitch. So I don't necessarily discount his headline vision, I don't think he can identify the players needed to suit his system or at least get his message across coherently.

I think the style can have it's moments, but as I mention above, there are obvious flaws with the personnel and the manager accounting for that. I think he didn't fancy reverting to how we played under Ole and doubling down on the philosophy would at least see some attacking gains, but boy was he wrong.

Well, when he had Overmars and VDS, he performed infinitely better than what we're seeing here. The question would be is the appointment of Wilcox and Berrada enough to move the needle enough at this point? I'd have to say probably not, but then again we maybe seeing a ridiculous amount of outgoings this summer with all the expiring contracts and everyone up for sale, so there's a bit of a reset within the squad. I'd prefer Tuchel, but I'm not against Ten Hag given a chance if the option is fecking Potter or god forbid, Southgate.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I'd be okay with it if we were in a deserved 8th place but we're actually more like a side towards the bottom of the table.

Pull the other one, mate.

 

[Fortitude]

I think if this was under the Glazers that’s a possibility but for INEOS it’s the perfect chance to get rid of underachievers. Also helps that the no CL clause in contracts reduces wages so maybe some will be forced to look elsewhere.

I maintain we wouldn’t need as big of a squad so we can ship out many players without needing them to be replaced. We started the season with VDB, Hannibal, Amad, Pellestri in the squad with them getting pointless minutes.

I think the key for us this summer is understanding why so many injuries, though they have reduced a bit. If you want a smaller squad they need to be fitter than they’ve been this year.

Pound for pound we have the worst performance to pay ratio in the world; even on reduced wages here, the vast majority of the squad could not command that rate, or anything close to it, elsewhere so many will gladly sit and ride out whatever grand plan is in place unless paid up and out. Most also know they won’t get a gig at another giant club and will gladly keep prestige, even as benched or squaddied players rather than drop a level or two and play.

One of the things that gets overlooked with City is that once they want players out, they are gone; paid up and shipped out and nobody gets to loiter around as periphery NPC’s. INEOS can talk all the big cull talk in the world, but unless that’s backed by tonnes of cash to pay up contracts, it’s a load of hot air.

We couldn’t even get Maguire and McTominay out to West Ham, and they’re two of our more functional players in PL standing, so just imagine what it’ll be like with the truly awful players on triple the wages they should be. We’ve an anchor around our neck when it comes to an exodus… we can’t afford it!

I’m finding it hard to extrapolate until we know who and who we can’t get rid of and how much that impacts on who and how many we can get in, tbh.

 

[TheGodsInRed]

Eriksen and Antony were also his signings. Our scouts didn't rate Antony that highly.

Amrabat was someone we were linked with all last summer. He has been managed by ten Hag before. Now he's just an expensive loan who flopped.

Mount was signed a year after the FdJ fiasco. Totally different profile. Eriksen was the cheaper FdJ alternative.

ten Hag has said that he would have liked to have signed both FdJ and Caemiro, so we can no longer blame the club on that one either.

Antony was a last ditch desperation signing, so was Amrabat. My point was these weren't in the original plan/budget, Ten Haag was clearly happy to have the extra signings as the window was late, but that doesn't mean he was properly supported.

I wouldn't have him near signings anyway, but my point was that although people point out that money that has been spent under him, he still wasn't properly supported with structured signings.

 

[Rozay]

Haven’t read the whole OP (apologies, TL;DR) - however, I’m in agreement with not sacking him at this point. I’d start next season with him and see how it goes from there. All we’d be doing is continuing to sack managers until we find one that is successful instantly, which is unlikely. A full transformation takes time, and I’d still have him at a net zero when his equity and deficit from last season and this season are considered.

There’s also nothing out there either. The only idea I can get behind would be sacking him and getting McKenna in and giving him some time too, but that could still be done in the new year or next summer if we see fit.

 

[pocco]

Yes, I'm with you. Wait until December, sacrifice another season and hire Southgate because no one else is available in the middle of the season.

This is the biggest issue with keeping him, along with the strong possibility we write off another season and create even more negativity around the club. If he stays and fails next season, we're in an even bigger hole in my opinion.

 

[redDNA]

There's a topic why Madrid are successful, topics such as this is one of the reasons why we have not been successful for the past ten years.

A fan base with Standards would have called for his neck after the Liverpool thrashing.

He has spent mire than 400m and most of them have been underwhelming (including Antony who played under him at Ajax).

We have conceded a Club record shorts on goal.

We have no identity ir pattern of play.

We have been conceeding goals from cut backs and it has not been fixed.

 

[pocco]

Haven’t read the whole OP (apologies, TL;DR) - however, I’m in agreement with not sacking him at this point. I’d start next season with him and see how it goes from there. All we’d be doing is continuing to sack managers until we find one that is successful instantly, which is unlikely. A full transformation takes time, and I’d still have him at a net zero when his equity and deficit from last season and this season are considered.

There’s also nothing out there either. The only idea I can get behind would be sacking him and getting McKenna in and giving him some time too, but that could still be done in the new year or next summer if we see fit.

If Ipswich struggle in the PL, it'll probably be a very controversial decision to hire him. Best time would be now whilst his stock is high, unless he performs miracles next season.

 

[RedC]

I think the main reason I want to see him stay is to continue the wiping of the slate in terms of players. I'm willing to sacrifice another season if it means we get to a point where very few if any players still remain from the past regimes. I also think given the right support he has the potential to do a good job, solely as a coach.

 

[tomaldinho1]

There's a topic why Madrid are successful, topics such as this is one of the reasons why we have not been successful for the past ten years.

A fan base with Standards would have called for his neck after the Liverpool thrashing.

He has spent mire than 400m and most of them have been underwhelming (including Antony who played under him at Ajax).

We have conceded a Club record shorts on goal.

We have no identity ir pattern of play.

We have been conceeding goals from cut backs and it has not been fixed.

Real are successful because La Liga keep 2 teams propped up with a hugely disparate payments setup, not because their fans have high standards.

I am partly intrigued to see what difference, if any, there'd be if he had another window - purely because this tactical setup is clearly a choice given our issues and it's so clear how scattergun our recruitment is (and we have multiple managers now having the same issues) I don't doubt Ineos can find more suited players to a system. That said, the reality is the players are not with him in my opinion and there's another window or two to come before we're through this period of change and jettisoning the bulk of the players who aren't good enough.

Maybe that's a reason to keep him - that there's still a lot of disruption to come - but I do expect he'll be moved on come summer.

 

[Rista]

I have also come to that conclusion myself after many years, which is why I think Tuchel is the best realistic option for us until we find the next young pretender (or if Tuchel himself does a fantastic job).

But staying on topic, I can also see why people want to give ETH more time. It's difficult to drop an idea that's been hammered into you for a long time. You also never know the future: ETH could very well improve significantly next season.

So could Antony, but most likely not.

Notice how this very thread that is supposed to be different from others does not really talk about what exactly is it that people see in ETH that gives us a reason to believe he is the man to take us forward. But rather it's the same old "we have tried sacking managers before, lets try giving him a chance" and about how somehow keeping him means players do not get another chance. Both objectively bad arguments. The players from past regimes are already a minority.

 

[Rojofiam]

Onana
Malacia
Lisandro
Mount (although he wanted De Jong)
Højlund (although he wanted Kane)

These were Ten Haag signings imo. The others were hoisted upon him last minute in desperation because he couldn't get who he wanted. Similar to Van Goal and the others.

Recommended and identified by ETH: Eriksen, Malacia, Martínez, Antony, Amrabat, Onana, Mount

Identified by the club and ETH okayed them: Hojlund, Casemiro

I think this is how it probably happened and objectively, there's only 1 mistake here, although he's a big one: Antony. But I'm pretty sure the Athletic mentioned that we only overpaid because the Glazers panicked and got involved in the last week of the window after the opening two defeats to Brighton and Brentford.

Onana, Malacia, Martínez, and Mount are all good players who have had promising performances at United, and also at a high level in their previous clubs in the case of Mount and Onana at Chelsea and Inter, respectively.

Eriksen was a good signing for free and up until his injury vs Reading, he was doing very well.

Amrabat should've got more play time instead of watching Casemiro struggle every week, but he'll probably be going back to Italy in the summer. Still, it was a cheap punt on him.

Hojlund was a great find by the scouting department, and kudos to them, the club, and ETH for choosing him as an alternative to Kane instead of the likes of Ramos, Kolo Muani etc., both as, or more expensive, but inferior players to the Dane.

Casemiro did well last season, but completely struggled in this new system which is the result of both him declining physically, and the new tactical setup being a nightmare for any #6 on earth, basically.

All in all, if Ineos decides to keep ETH, and make 4-6 new signings that both the new structure and ETH agree on, I think next season we could surprise a lot of people, since we'll have no Europe and our squad is far from 8th best. We have a good 10-15 players we can build on, if we add 4-6 significant arrivals, we can do well next season...as long as ETH either ditches the current tactical system, or if it's suddenly going to work with new DMs and CBs who can cover and defend big areas when we lose possession, because I think that's what's key to making it work.

 

[Rozay]

If Ipswich struggle in the PL, it'll probably be a very controversial decision to hire him. Best time would be now whilst his stock is high, unless he performs miracles next season.

That’s what I meant by ‘if we still see fit’.

I’d get behind us appointing him this summer, but other than that, keeping Ten Hag comfortably beats every other option for me.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Sometimes it feels like some fans actually want to see United continue to fail.

In a follow up to What's the secret to Real Madrids success, we should create the sequel Whats the secret to Manchester Uniteds failure. This and the Ten Hag threads would be referenced in the appendix

 

[Redstain]

The problem with Erik is the very issue as to why its almost near impossible to succinctly think he will succeed staying, he's proven being incapable of turning things around at multiple stages already and it's not the premise of the results but the performances.

United have been harboring poor performances since the tail end of the new year on the back end of last season with a fit squad. The Wolves fixture by game metrics when the first team was readily available reads for poor numbers across the board concerning a narrow win against a lower mid table side.

This is the only barometer we have to determine an estimation for next season. Additionally, every summer signing for United has had a below par impact and it's not due to player quality, but the application of how they have been inaugurated into the team has been the fundamental issue.

The suggestion that newer players under INEOS regime is a game changer is a unrealistic presupposition built of unrealistic optimism. The reality is that United have a manager who is not cut out at the level required for the team to move forward.

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

I agree with your principle to some degree but we need to be sure whether he's ultimately the right guy and whether his full vision is worth seeing into fruition. Many of us fundamentally believe that his ideal (which has been massively impacted by injuries and other circumstances; not entirely his fault but certainly he isn't blameless) is not pragmatic enough to bring consistent success. Also many of us feel he inherently isn't a strong enough coach, man manager or 'charismatic' leader to warrant such time and faith.

Arsenal abided by Arteta because presumably they felt he was a genius that was reshaping the club root and branch and was also growing into his role. The fans didn't always think this way but Arsenal clearly have clever football people in leadership. Liverpool had a difficult first season under Klopp. Enough said.

The irony is that ETH did well last season when he was being pragmatic and compromising his preferred vision. His ultimate vision is still a compromise based on his ideal of 'Manchester United DNA' (and probably the belief in the importance of Fernandes and Rashford). It's not like he's moving us into his Ajax style of play, which a lot of us would accept. The key question is, when the process is more ripe, will it bring the best fruit? I'd say no. Therefore we're betting on a niche style with an awkward manager and would continue to waste time and money by funding something that just won't work.

Unfortunately, though, there's not a great deal of appealing options. Most are not available (Alonso, Nagelsmann), arguably not ready (McKenna, Motta, Hoeness) or highly questionable (Tuchel, Potter, Southgate). Maybe we ask ETH to stay another year, be more pragmatic like he did last season but basically signal to everyone that we don't believe in him. He can then leave when out of contract and the pool of managers might be better next year. This isn't ideal also. We're really in a tricky position this summer I think.

 

[Gehrman]

Drop the cult of the manager. We are the only club to give our managers so much leeway.

 

[redDNA]

Real are successful because La Liga keep 2 teams propped up with a hugely disparate payments setup, not because their fans have high standards.

I am partly intrigued to see what difference, if any, there'd be if he had another window - purely because this tactical setup is clearly a choice given our issues and it's so clear how scattergun our recruitment is (and we have multiple managers now having the same issues) I don't doubt Ineos can find more suited players to a system. That said, the reality is the players are not with him in my opinion and there's another window or two to come before we're through this period of change and jettisoning the bulk of the players who aren't good enough.

Maybe that's a reason to keep him - that there's still a lot of disruption to come - but I do expect he'll be moved on come summer.

If this tactical set up is a choice, is it no an indictment on ETH because it's clearly not working.Every teams has issues and it's the work of the Coach to adjust accordingly.

He bought the players himself and have signed promoted alot of players to form the core of his Team and how wants to play .

 

[tomaldinho1]

So could Antony, but most likely not.

Notice how this very thread that is supposed to be different from others does not really talk about what exactly is it that people see in ETH that gives us a reason to believe he is the man to take us forward. But rather it's the same old "we have tried sacking managers before, lets try giving him a chance" and about how somehow keeping him means players do not get another chance. Both objectively bad arguments. The players from past regimes are already a minority.

On this point, there were some good things were were doing but people forget and this season has destroyed much of the positive memories from last season. Pre cup final we were pretty damn good in a functional way, the midfield setup worked (he'd basically mirrored the Real setup Case used to play in for our pair of Case/Eriksen), Wout/Antony freed up Rashford well, Licha/Varane was an incredibly good pairing and there were improvements to all the full backs and even guys like McT. Our full backs were coming into midfield well, Licha was even coming into midfield in certain games although ETH didn't really talk about it and sadly that's what you need to do so all the crappy pundits see it and then start talking about it. There were signs of the press finally being put in as well.

Players from past regimes are still an overwhelming majority, though. ETH has signed Onana, Licha, Case, Antony, Hojlund, Mount, Eriksen as first teamers. And of those Case/Eriksen/Hojlund were last minute/not who he wanted. Licha and Mount haven't really been around much this season.

The other part people ignore and it's kind of telling that people don't really think of his job as they would a normal job in real life, is the personal side of things. He's had to deal with the most, by far, issues of which Ronaldo, Maguire not leaving because he's overpaid, Sancho are all headaches from Ole. Greenwood and Antony's off field issues obviously aren't his fault but it all adds up to non footballing stuff he's having to juggle whilst keeping a large group of players (who we already know will give up on a manager, as they did Ole eventually) happy/performing.