VAR and Refs | General Discussion

Saudis in the VAR booth for Newcastle. Clearly a push. Gabriel has no reason to jump down and not head the ball away as it’ll lead to a goal. It’s too risky compared to the benefit of just heading the ball away to go for a dive in a situation like that.

The system screams out for transparency and official announcements of why a call was made. It’s ridiculous that we fans cant get info of the why’s really. All we can get is a possibly bribed /influenced referee pointing to the spot or in a direction.

It kills the game, and take the characters out of football.
 
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I’d say it looks still in play, just.

Haven’t seen a proper replay of the Joelinton challenge, but both arms on the back look a bit dodgy.
 
I actually think the Newcastle goal was fine to give. Given the camera angles, you can't 100% say the ball was out of play, I think it's possibly a foul but not a clear cut foul. With the offside, it's difficult to tell, to be honest.

With the Rashford goal that was disallowed, did VAR rule it out or did the referee rule it out and VAR decided not to overturn? The angle seems a bit better for United's incident but would put it in the same bracket as inconclusive and the goal should be given provided the the on field team didn't rule it out.
 
This is all distracting from the fact that VAR looked at Bruno elbowing Jorgino in the back of the head and seeing nothing wrong with it. Egregious.
 
fergies coat said:
It seems Var decide who they want to win. Absolutely zero consistency. Get rid of it now!! It's ruined the game.
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What if (and this is a mad idea) they had another official on the goal line with a little stick for these instances? Surely that would work, then we'd know for sure if the ball was out.
 
duffer said:
Can't you see that the pic on the left is straight on and the other at an angle?
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Whilst I agree, we don't have the technology to conclusively say, when you look at the Japan goal in the world cup.

They should either both be given or both disallowed, in my opinion.
 
saivet said:
I actually think the Newcastle goal was fine to give. Given the camera angles, you can't 100% say the ball was out of play, I think it's possibly a foul but not a clear cut foul. With the offside, it's difficult to tell, to be honest.

With the Rashford goal that was disallowed, did VAR rule it out or did the referee rule it out and VAR decided not to overturn? The angle seems a bit better for United's incident but would put it in the same bracket as inconclusive and the goal should be given provided the the on field team didn't rule it out.
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VAR intervened to rule out Rashford assist.
 
Lash said:
Whilst I agree, we don't have the technology to conclusively say, when you look at the Japan goal in the world cup.

They should either both be given or both disallowed, in my opinion.
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The one of the left is 100% out and the one on the right is tough to call because of the angle.

In real life it might be the same ball placement but those pics (because of the angle) can't tell that.
 
Both yellows in the Newcastle vs Arsenal game would be double punishment for any Man Utd players red and 3 extra game. Webb is taking revenge for all the years ABU calling him a Man Utd fan
 
No way should Newcastle's goal have been ruled out because it maybe went over the sideline. You couldn't tell definitively that it did - nothing clear and obvious about it. The foul was the only real problem.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fair enough. You’ll note that both the footballers in the studio agree it wasn’t a foul. Not every contact between two players is a foul. You’ll know that, though, from having played the game.
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A push in the back is a push in the back.
There's no escape from this fact.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I think Harry was offside but as I said earlier he was being fouled before he committed the offside offence so it should really have been a penalty.
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Garnacho wasn’t though and he crossed the ball. VAR shouldn’t be subjective as everyone is calling it. If you not sure and it’s an interpretation not facts let us go
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Fair enough. You’ll note that both the footballers in the studio agree it wasn’t a foul. Not every contact between two players is a foul. You’ll know that, though, from having played the game.
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If United were playing the studio guys will be saying things like ‘he’s giving the ref a question etc.’ oh and of course it would be disallowed.
 
Also, managers who claim "disgrace" - need to stay they same when they get similar decisions in their favour if they want to be taken seriously when going anti-VAR.

Obvious who I'm talking about here, but loads are the same.
 
One week it's City, the next week it's Newcastle benefitting ridiculous calls, whilst several PL referees are getting paid to referee games in the UAE and probably eventually Saudi Arabia too...is this the future of the Premier League? :)

Not to mention the British government being too scared to let the PL punish City for their 115 charges, but that's another topic.
 
duffer said:
I wouldn't have ruled it out if that pic was all I had to go on. It's not though.
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There’s literally one pic that gave doubt to the ball being out, not sure why you’re giving the upmost importance.
Plus it’s not straight in that matters, it’s the height of the camera angle isn’t it?
 
christinaa said:
A push in the back is a push in the back.
There's no escape from this fact.
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There has to be a push though. It looked as though Joelinton had his hands on Gabriel’s back but Gabriel was already dipping when the ball arrived then flung himself on the ground when he realised he misjudged it. That’s how I saw it anyway. Which is how the footballers in the studio also saw it. If there are definite split opinions on the incident then how is it a clear and obvious error?
 
I’ve been all for VAR but as long as it’s being manned by cnuts, it’s there’s no point.
 
It’s a complete mess and they need to rethink. Needs to be more like rugby where the onus is still on the ref to make the decision for incidents like the Newcastle goal. Ref would have known there was a possible foul on ball possibly out of play, let him view it and decide.

Instead we have this inconsistent standoff where no one in the VAR room seems to know whether they intervene or not and when they do refs always go along with it. We are getting decisions where the VAR team know it’s wrong but it’s not clear and obvious enough.
 
Mike Smalling said:
No way should Newcastle's goal have been ruled out because it maybe went over the sideline. You couldn't tell definitively that it did - nothing clear and obvious about it. The foul was the only real problem.
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Didn't work that way for Garnacho though. People want consistency, VAR is worse than the crap decisions the Refs used to make, least if the Ref got it wrong you could celebrate the goal and not have to sit there for a few minutes waiting to see if VAR can find a fault.
 
cyberman said:
There’s literally one pic that gave doubt to the ball being out, not sure why you’re giving the upmost importance.
Plus it’s not straight in that matters, it’s the height of the camera angle isn’t it?
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The first pic to me, clearly shows it's out. Like really clearly.

Of course there's going to be a million different pics of the ball being in, because the ball was in until it was out. That totally depends on when the froze the frame.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There has to be a push though. It looked as though Joelinton had his hands on Gabriel’s back but Gabriel was already dipping when the ball arrived then flung himself on the ground when he realised he misjudged it. That’s how I saw it anyway. Which is how the footballers in the studio also saw it. If there are definite split opinions on the incident then how is it a clear and obvious error?
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Clear and obvious error is bolox though. Its just adding flaky interpretation where there shouldn't be any.
They're all 50/50 decisions and if it was one you'd write it off. A goal relying on 3 50/50 decisions is another matter. You need a lot of coin tosses going your way for that to stand.
I find the camera angles, too many players in the way thing a crappy excuse and if thats how you want to play it then Newcastle should be putting up more cameras tomorrow.
 
duffer said:
The first pic to me, clearly shows it's out. Like really clearly.

Of course there's going to be a million different pics of the ball being in, because the ball was in until it was out. That totally depends on when the froze the frame.
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But other pic shows it was in and that’s the point.
That’s why it should never have been disallowed, they went through how many instances to find one v many that shown it was in and ruled it out. You really have to be right above the ball to rule it out imo.
It just can’t be clear and obvious but there’s a strange acceptance that just because a line is involved that a ruling has to be made. If that were an equivalent tackle that they couldn’t quite see properly then there’s no way VAR gets involved imo
 
Pogue Mahone said:
There has to be a push though. It looked as though Joelinton had his hands on Gabriel’s back but Gabriel was already dipping when the ball arrived then flung himself on the ground when he realised he misjudged it. That’s how I saw it anyway. Which is how the footballers in the studio also saw it. If there are definite split opinions on the incident then how is it a clear and obvious error?
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Footballers in the studio all have their agenda and I hear what they say and take it with a pinch of salt. Even Gary utters so many erratic and stupid comments.

I respect your opinion but beg to differ.:)
 
duffer said:
The one of the left is 100% out and the one on the right is tough to call because of the angle.

In real life it might be the same ball placement but those pics (because of the angle) can't tell that.
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Is it 100% though? when this was found to be in with actual tech:

https://images.app.goo.gl/UZyet237Dk4NnhDN8

Also seems a bit odd every ground doesn't have the same angles if that's going be used to determine out of play.

Anyway, I think the obvious solution is to go to semi-automated and maybe I'm being a bit biased, but VAR is just starting to grate on me.
 
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