Music Sam Smith (Singer)

Rowling's buddy Posie Parker is willing to give up the right to abortion in the fight against trans people, and thinks that men should arm themselves and enter women's bathrooms to keep trans people out. Her friend Helen Joyce thinks that the only way to limit the harm trans people inflict on women is to reduce or keep down the number of people who transition because every single person in that category is a problem. The LGB Alliance, a charity that Rowling supports, invite the EDL to their raillies. Other friends of Rowling regularly wish death upon trans people, one of them is banned from Twitter for sending death threats to Mermaids.

Rowling and an anti-trans movement? Noo, no way.
 
stepic said:
clearly you are hard of hearing because i literally told you a few pages ago the self id legislation has nothing to do with access to women's spaces. again, this is already covered under the Equality Act.

i'm not even going to touch your misguided opinion of J.K. Rowling. there is no conjecture - anyone who can read her tweets can see you're talking absolute nonsense.
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Feel free to link said tweets.
 
SilentWitness said:
It’s not about Sam Smith. It’s about being polite and accommodating to people who are non-binary or another gender and being a respectful human being. You don’t have to agree with it, but being a decent human being who can at least acknowledge it and be respectful of their choice and cater to it by doing one tiny thing like using they instead of he goes a long way in making others feel accepted in a world which they largely do not.
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I know, that's why I use "they", even though I am quite sure Sam Smith won't read it. I just find it weird that some people care so much about it, for example more than we cared about our former player Memphis Depay hating to be called Depay, and yet majority here called him Depay(me included because that was simply easier for me). And big difference is is that Memphis Depay could actually read football forum.
 
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NotThatSoph said:
I do use capital letters myself, but I don't pay attention so I make plenty of spelling and grammatical mistakes that would be mostly avoided if I spent just a little more time.
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That's exactly my point though. I spent ages in this thread writing some posts because I checked everything few times that I didn't use he instead of they, and yet again I missed it few times and made a mistake. So I reckon he did the same, especially because he never made a mistake, and yet he didn't spend half a second paying attention to capital letters. For someone that pays such an attention to details, I found the lack of capital letters pretty weird. But each to their own I guess.

moses said:
Poor @rimaldo
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I was actually more mad that someone was trying to copy rimaldo. He is our resident avoiding capitals merchant and no one should take that away from him.
 
Amar__ said:
I know, that's why I use "they", even though I am quite sure Sam Smith won't read it. I just find it weird that some people care so much about it, for example more than we cared about our former player Memphis Depay hating to be called Depay, and yet majority here called him Depay(me included because that was simply easier for me). And big difference is is that Memphis Depay could read football forum.
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You're right by the way, it's a strange phenomenon. There's definitely an element of faux outrage (virtue signalling?) about it. Especially considering the abuse doled out here for footballers and other public figures (and Sam Smith) that is allowed to slide, it strikes me as odd that the line drawn is about correct pronouns.
 
The Corinthian said:
You're right by the way, it's a strange phenomenon. There's definitely an element of faux outrage (virtue signalling?) about it. Especially considering the abuse doled out here for footballers and other public figures (and Sam Smith) that is allowed to slide, it strikes me as odd that the line drawn is about correct pronouns.
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What line has been drawn here exactly that wouldn't be drawn in a players thread if abuse went too far?

Has anybody been warned for using the wrong pronouns? No, they've just been called up on it if it's been on purpose. Whereas posters were actually warned and banned for posts in the recent Sancho thread.
 
Btw have people actually even used the wrong pronouns on purpose? I don't think I have seen it except many posters simply making mistakes.

Can someone quote those posts?
 
The Corinthian said:
You're right by the way, it's a strange phenomenon. There's definitely an element of faux outrage (virtue signalling?) about it. Especially considering the abuse doled out here for footballers and other public figures (and Sam Smith) that is allowed to slide, it strikes me as odd that the line drawn is about correct pronouns.
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It’s not all that strange though? It’s all about this notion of intersectionality. Kind of like a top trumps of privilege. A rich fat white person like James Corden is fair game. A rich fat white person like Sam Smith gets more protection because they happen to also be trans. Plus at least some of the shit thrown in their direction is based on their identity alone, which they can’t do anything about. While James Corden is purely being attacked about the way he behaves.
 
Amar__ said:
Btw have people actually even used the wrong pronouns on purpose? I don't think I have seen it except many posters simply making mistakes.

Can someone quote those posts?
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fergies coat said:
Attention seeking idiot, crying in his mansion because he can't cope during covid, and probably only came out as non binary to get more attention.
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dal said:
Non binary wtf. He/she/it is so annoying, James Cordon will probably announce a non binary status soon.
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The Corinthian said:
They is an attention seeking prat.
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The Corinthian said:
Dude, I'd say pretty much all of my knowledge about mainstream pop stars comes from this board. It's not something I keep up to date with.

So if someone posts a pic of Harry Styles in a gimp suit at an awards ceremony, I'd say the same about him.

I couldn't give a shit that Sam Smith is chubby or non-binary. He's still an attention seeking prat.
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ChrisNelson said:
He's gone in there with only one intention - that was to have everyone talking about him after the event rather than the show itself.

Look at this forum, social media and the internet in general - he's succeeded.

In terms of the identity, people can choose whatever they want but I prefer to go with what my biology teacher taught me at school.

A little part of me dies every time I see an email signature with pronouns after the name, but it is the epitome of this generation.
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These took 2 minutes to find.
 
sizzling sausages said:
What line has been drawn here exactly that wouldn't be drawn in a players thread if abuse went too far?

Has anybody been warned for using the wrong pronouns? No, they've just been called up on it if it's been on purpose. Whereas posters were actually warned and banned for posts in the recent Sancho thread.
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I don't know what's happened in the Sancho thread so can't comment.

I'm not really talking about bannings or such am I? It's the idea that you can make comments disparaging comments about a person and it's allowed to slide but if you use the wrong pronoun it's a step too far. One poster mentioned that there could be non-binary people on the forum who might feel upset or such reading that. My point is - I'm sure there are fat people on the forum dealing with body dysmorphia etc etc.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s not all that strange though? It’s all about this notion of intersectionality. Kind of like a top trumps of privilege. A rich fat white person like James Corden is fair game. A rich fat white person like Sam Smith gets more protection because they happen to also be trans. Plus at least some of the shit thrown in their direction is based on their identity alone, which they can’t do anything about. While James Corden is purely being attacked about the way he behaves.
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But the comments about James Corden aren't about the way he behaves. It's about him being fat (even though the reason he's being called fat is because of the way he behaves).

I don't get the (what comes across as) arbitrary point where we allow abuse about a person but say that a wrong pronoun is a step too far. If I randomly started abusing James Corden all the while referring to him as 'she', I sincerely doubt people would give a shit.

Also - just to make it crystal clear (before I'm piled on) - I'm not sitting here saying we should be able to call Sam Smith a 'he' btw.
 
The Corinthian said:
But the comments about James Corden aren't about the way he behaves. It's about him being fat (even though the reason he's being called fat is because of the way he behaves).

I don't get the (what comes across as) arbitrary point where we allow abuse about a person but say that a wrong pronoun is a step too far. If I randomly started abusing James Corden all the while referring to him as 'she', I sincerely doubt people would give a shit.

Also - just to make it crystal clear (before I'm piled on) - I'm not sitting here saying we should be able to call Sam Smith a 'he' btw.
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I do think you’re onto something about how being seen to come down on dead naming or abuse pronouns is kind of the in thing now. A lot of the people who take others to task in this way would also be sure wade in when they see fat shaming, or other ways of being mean in general, but by no means all.

Maybe that’s because the battle has been won (or at least fought to a standstill) on the older issues but this is a lot more topical and more evenly matched?
 
Their music is shite and they look like a cnut in that suit. I, too, came here from the meme thread.
 
The Corinthian said:
I don't know what's happened in the Sancho thread so can't comment.

I'm not really talking about bannings or such am I? It's the idea that you can make comments disparaging comments about a person and it's allowed to slide but if you use the wrong pronoun it's a step too far. One poster mentioned that there could be non-binary people on the forum who might feel upset or such reading that. My point is - I'm sure there are fat people on the forum dealing with body dysmorphia etc etc.
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This is my point, people were given warnings for disparaging comments about Sancho but no one has been warned in this thread.

Hypothetical scenario, if a thread was made here about someone famous talking about their struggle with body dysmorphia and a load of posters came in and mocked them for being fat, do you think these posters would be called out?
 
sizzling sausages said:
These took 2 minutes to find.
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So - one of them was an intentional white text joke. The other was a total mistake - see my other posts in the thread and you'll notice I've referred to SS as they/their.
Pogue Mahone said:
I do think you’re onto something about how being seen to come down on dead naming or abuse pronouns is kind of the in thing now. A lot of the people who take others to task in this way would also be sure wade in when they see fat shaming, or other ways of being mean in general, but by no means all.

Maybe that’s because the battle has been won (or at least fought to a standstill) on the older issues but this is a lot more topical and more evenly matched?
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I guess so.

As an aside - proper weird what you end up getting drawn into debating on the Caf. Here I am talking about a singer I've never listened to out of choice and making a tangential defence for James Corden. :lol:
 
KirkDuyt said:
Their music is shite and they look like a cnut in that suit. I, too, came here from the meme thread.
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I think Sam Smith is a dreadful singer and not a very good artist. Anybody who says that they have nothing to write about after making a break up album is entirely lacking in substance. I mean, what creative poverty!

The other stuff is just (shrugs). Bowie did it better.
 
sizzling sausages said:
This is my point, people were given warnings for disparaging comments about Sancho but no one has been warned in this thread.

Hypothetical scenario, if a thread was made here about someone famous talking about their struggle with body dysmorphia and a load of posters came in and mocked them for being fat, do you think these posters would be called out?
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Yes, and rightly so. But I'm not sure what's that got to do with my point?

We have a thread about a fat celeb where it's routinely updated to tell us he's (unfortunately) still alive and fat. I'm not trying to change the Caf here, but is there a reason posters see that as ok, but may feel the need to step in if someone calls Sam Smith a he? (And I haven't done a cross reference to see who posted there and here, I'm talking about the general feeling).
 
For me it's just disrespect not to address people by what is their choice. And it's the petty defiance that gets me. My mother uses her middle name. It's not officially her name and nobody has ever expressed outrage when she points out that she uses her middle name.

She herself is of an age where she 'doesn't understand' what non binary is so has sympathy for those who have issues with it.

That woman doesn't understand 90% of the modern world but it doesn't hinder her or bother her.

The truth is she doesn't like it as a concept and the whole trans community she's never met. So she's a bigot. It's the bigotry people don't like, not the grammar. The grammar issues are just the tool for the bigotry.

If the Sancho abuse was race based the poster would be gone. Not all abuse is equal.

I mention 'never met' because of the part ignorance plays in fear. If one of my kids was non binary, granny would be fine.
 
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The Corinthian said:
Yes, and rightly so. But I'm not sure what's that got to do with my point?

We have a thread about a fat celeb where it's routinely updated to tell us he's (unfortunately) still alive and fat. I'm not trying to change the Caf here, but is there a reason posters see that as ok, but may feel the need to step in if someone calls Sam Smith a he? (And I haven't done a cross reference to see who posted there and here, I'm talking about the general feeling).
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You've said that abuse of players is let slide but the line is drawn at incorrect pronouns, I'm pointing out that isn't the case.

I don't agree with what the James Corden thread has become and personally I'd warn posters that wish for his death but I think it's mostly a couple of idiots who keep that going as a joke.
 
sizzling sausages said:
You've said that abuse of players is let slide but the line is drawn at incorrect pronouns, I'm pointing out that isn't the case.

I don't agree with what the James Corden thread has become and personally I'd warn posters that wish for his death but I think it's mostly a couple of idiots who keep that going as a joke.
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Abuse of players would have less tolerance if it was because they were black or gay.
 
The Corinthian said:
We have a thread about a fat celeb where it's routinely updated to tell us he's (unfortunately) still alive and fat. I'm not trying to change the Caf here, but is there a reason posters see that as ok, but may feel the need to step in if someone calls Sam Smith a he? (And I haven't done a cross reference to see who posted there and here, I'm talking about the general feeling).
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it probably depends purely on what is popular to defend these days. that recent Ajax manager for example... people joked about the shape of his head and called him Megamind. I saw plenty of people in match threads joking about Paul Ince eyes as well. as long as the jokes are funny, people are going to tolerate pretty much everything that would otherwise be disrespectful.
 
sizzling sausages said:
You've said that abuse of players is let slide but the line is drawn at incorrect pronouns, I'm pointing out that isn't the case.

I don't agree with what the James Corden thread has become and personally I'd warn posters that wish for his death but I think it's mostly a couple of idiots who keep that going as a joke.
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There’s tonnes of abuse to players about all manner of things that is allowed. You’re talking about a specific contextual post about someone with body dysmorphia. (Again, I’m not trying to change the Caf here or advocating to call Sam Smith a he) but it’s quite inconsistent.

If we’re talking about Sam Smith - we’re talking about an outfit at the Brit awards - not about the non binary status or the weight that predicated all of this.
 
The Corinthian said:
If we’re talking about Sam Smith - we’re talking about an outfit at the Brit awards - not about the non binary status or the weight that predicated all of this.
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Has anybody actually taken exception to anyone criticising the outfit they wore?
 
I’ve also not seen anyone refer to that poor girl by their previous name. It’s been Brianna wherever I’ve heard or read it.
 
sebsheep said:
Has anybody actually taken exception to anyone criticising the outfit they wore?
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A couple of posters has said they believe that the abuse SS gets is due to the non binary and weight status rather than the outfit.
 
The Corinthian said:
A couple of posters has said they believe that the abuse SS gets is due to the non binary and weight status rather than the outfit.
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Do you think that could be related to a good portion of the people criticising Sam Smith in this thread and outside of the caf tend to either mis-gender them?
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
Both links show the same thing?
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In the original version they just refer to her as a girl. In the second version they refer to her as a "transgender teenager"who had been living as a girl for several months, while also reporting her deadname. In the third version they refer to her as a "transgender girl" who had been living as a girl for several months, without also reporting her deadname.
 
sullydnl said:
In the original version they just refer to her as a girl. In the second version they refer to her as a "transgender teenager"who had been living as a girl for several months, while also reporting her deadname. In the third version they refer to her as a "transgender girl" who had been living as a girl for several months, without also reporting her deadname.
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So it's clumsy not malicious.
 
Rado_N said:
To go from getting it right to adding in the deadname and trans reference is clearly not clumsy.
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I would possibly argue that they got it right with the final version rather than the first? In that her being transgender is potentially relevant to the story, both if it turns out to be a hate crime but also because it has fed into a wider discussion online on violence against trans people. I think referring to her as a transgender girl is at least arguably correct in that context.

Nothing to do with what this thread is nominally about mind so perhaps best to leave that discussion for elsewhere.
 
sullydnl said:
I would possibly argue that they got it right with the final version rather than the first? In that her being transgender is potentially relevant to the story, both if it turns out to be a hate crime but also because it has fed into a wider discussion online on violence against trans people. I think referring to her as a transgender girl is at least arguably correct in that context.

Nothing to do with what this thread is nominally about mind so perhaps best to leave that discussion for elsewhere.
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I can see that.

Adding the deadname in the 2nd version is absolutely not “clumsy” though.
 
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