Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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5 wins in 19 games is a bad stat for any team, let alone a team the size of Utd. I saw no difference in that West Ham game and a typical 18/19 Mourinho game.

Its a woefully thin and disproportionate squad that both OGS and the board should be blamed for. Why have we got so many centre backs, left sided attackers and attacking midfielders, and very few central midfielders and no right wingers?
 
Di Maria's angel said:
It's silly. We went from 10 wins in 12 to 4 in 20. I'm assuming Ole's tactic started to bed in properly by the time we fell off the cliff.
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It's more damning when you think about it because when he took over, it was Jose's setup but with players trying for Ole. Now it's his setup and player's are trying and it's worse.
 
The guy is a dead man walking as I said multiple of times previously. We're just waiting for the decision to happen.
 
Lebowski said:
The problem with that kind of tweet is that even if you accept the premise, it was Ole's choice not to replace Lukaku, what sort of 'choice' was given to him is completely unknown.

For example, if Ole met Ed in June to discuss the Lukaku situation and chose at that point that selling Lukaku was fine and no replacement was needed, then I would agree with your analysis.

However, if his choice was made early August and came down to a choice between signing off the transfer to Inter or blocking it and working with an unhappy Lukaku all season then that's different all together.

Similarly, 'choosing not to replace Lukaku' may also mean Ole turned down Llorente or Andy Carroll on a free after our window closed.

Ultimately we don't know the inner workings of squad management, contract negotiations and transfers at United. Sometimes it feels like they don't even know who does what themselves. You might be correct in assigning Ole a slice of the blame for being the manager during a period where we gutted our squad and didn't replace key positions, but there's owners, a board and an executive vice chairman that presided over not only this poor summer but also the previous 7 poor summers too. I would suggest that most of the blame for the state of the squad needs to be directed to them and not to whichever manager happens to be the poor fecker in the impossible seat at the time.
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This deserves a thread of its own.

Do we have any factual information (not just opinions)on whether Ole was happy with not bringing in an attacker/midfielder? Was it a case of Woodward sabotaging him, or was he just happy going with the squad as it is?
 
Ralph1386 said:
This deserves a thread of its own.

Do we have any factual information (not just opinions)on whether Ole was happy with not bringing in an attacker/midfielder? Was it a case of Woodward sabotaging him, or was he just happy going with the squad as it is?
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There were attempts made at the death for mandzukic.
 
fergiesarmy1 said:
My bet is he sees the season out.....you in?
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If you're going to bet if he's going to last the season or not, then I'm going to bet he won't. To get past December he'll need a big shift in terms of results and performance which I simply can't see it happening.

So yeah count me in. :D
 
el3mel said:
If you're going to bet if he's going to last the season or not, then I'm going to bet he won't. To get past December he'll need a big shift in terms of results and performance which I simply can't see it happening.

So yeah count me in. :D
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Done, shall we call it a score or are you a big hitter :nervous::lol:
 
Ralph1386 said:
This deserves a thread of its own.

Do we have any factual information (not just opinions)on whether Ole was happy with not bringing in an attacker/midfielder? Was it a case of Woodward sabotaging him, or was he just happy going with the squad as it is?
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When he was asked about Lukaku being sold during the summer he said that if he was sold he would be replaced. That didn't happen, so obviously this wasn't Plan A.
 
Tom Cato said:
Are you saying we have better players in storage somewhere that we could have put on the pitch? That would be a lovely idea.
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Better players? Who needs them? It's all about the manager once the game starts.
 
Bilbo said:
Good post, but sadly you're pissing into the wind now. This place will meltdown after every match we don't win easily
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It's increasingly toxic. And these same people are more than likely the ones who are crying that Gomes et al aren't playing week in and week out. Guaranteed that they'd be fuming even more if we did and didn't win every game as a result.

You genuinely can't reason with them. For instance, they say Ole has no tactics and no plan but when you say that the first ten games shows what he's about, they do some mental gymnastics to give the credit to Carrick and McKenna, or that the opposition played poorly, etc. I've given up now.

That's not to say that Ole hasn't made mistakes, and yesterday was probably the first time where I genuinely became frustrated, but we have to see where this squad was last season, where it is now with minimal investment and a whole lot of players gone and not replaced, and where it will be with further recruitment and development of the young players at the club. We have the youngest squad in the league with many in the squad having barely 90 minutes of first team experience between them. There will be ups and downs, and they need time to develop. And that would be the same for Ole as it would be for Klopp and Pep if they had the same squad.
 
Tom Cato said:
Is it? This was reported on during the pre season tour before we had even played one game. I am sure you have heard the term "confirmation bias"? When you read something you agree on, and commenters around you only cement your belief that your opinion is in fact, correct, without the need to verify any type of source.

But to prove Im not actually making this up, since you wont take my word for it, since you read a sentence in a article that fits well with the narrative you want to belive in, here is an article from July 2019 citing that VERY statement:

http://fcnaija.com/man-utd-players-complain-of-solskjaer-old-school-training -

"Manchester United players have complained about manager Ole Gunnar Solksjaer training method -just less than a week into the training for the new season.
Some of the players are of the view that the manager priorities fitness over ball work which is the major complaint of the members, according to the report in ESPN."

Were we watching the same pre season? The team had one bad half in the entire pre-season tour. The first half against Milan in the 2-2 game at Cardiff. Against Tottenham we parked the bus.. on their half. A start contrast to the PL game when the opposite happened. The game against Inter was a one way show, they never came close to being dangerous, a perfect pre-season game. Of all the players, especially Mason Greenwood had a great pre-season tour, as well as Pogba and AWB.

Listen, if the results suddenly change overnight, its not down to the manager, its down to the players. Hell, if there is no manager that attends the game, the players should be able to just go on the pitch and win the match against lesser players, they are that good. These are not children that need to be told to press or play a certain way. The manager lay the framework, the players execute. Unfortunately the ball is round and result flow is an actual thing.

As for being outcoached by everyone: http://solskjaertabellen.com/ - Even with the shitty result streak from last season, the end result was still MUFC in third after OGS arrived. I just mention it since hes still being judged this season, on last seasons run. Remember when DDG went from the best to the worst goalie in the EPL? Because I do. He was directly responsible for several losses.

Listen: If Pogba scores on his penalty, if Rashford scores on his penalty, we are 6 points up. The margins have not been there. But more than anything we lack a player that can be the go-to goalscorer. Marcus Rashford should have been that guy. Rashford alone has missed more chances than anyone. Not "so so" chances, but free-on-keeper chances. Thats not acceptable. That is on Rashford and Rashford alone. And Dalot, and Mata, and Maguire, and everyone else who has missed open net chances. I am completely holding the players accountable for their inability to execute playground level footballing skills when it matters the most.

But it would seem we look at things very, very differently. And see different teams. Especially if you came from the pre-season and think we looked poor, did you even watch any of the games?
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You’re back and.... No!

When almost the whole team underperform then it’s hard to hold individual players “accountable”. So that door is closed. Clearing the deck, selling two senior forwards, letting our second most important player leave without replacement makes any criticism against Rashford & Co a bit meaningless. Take him out and what is left?

The only one who’s accountable because we’re paper thin up front is our manager. He’s in charge and make the decisions who’s to play or not. It’s his squad and his players.

Woodward gave him the chance of a lifetime and tons of money with it so he knows how it works. We all know that Woodward is an idiot but that doesn’t help Solskjær when the media is jumping on his back.

Remember this when he’s on his way back to Norway.
 
Greck said:
Just so no one runs off, we'll need someone to keep hold of the pot pending the determination of the bet. Both of you PayPal me £10 each to be given to the winner when the time comes
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How do we know you won’t run off :lol:, I’m willing to take him at his work for the grand sum of £20
 
Sacking Ole won’t solve anything. It’s not his fault that the squad he has inherited is dire. We still haven’t signed a out and out right winger since Antonio Valencia. In that time Valencia lost his pace and was turned into a right back then let go by the club. Just think about that for a minute... Makes me laugh that people still wonder why we are in the state we are in. We sold Lukaku and rightly so he isn’t and wasn’t good enough. Sanchez basically retired the day he put on a red shirt but who can blame him? 600k a week think I’d probably call it a day too. We need to completely start again unfortunately. It’s like we’ve inherited a dilapidated property. The first thing you do is knock it to the ground and start again. That’s what Ole is doing I can’t argue with any transfers he has made. The results will come in time... we need to atleast give him another summer transfer window and see how we get on from there. Rome wasn’t built over night.
 
sweetmgd said:
If you look at Ole's pros and cons, he has a clear vision of our club, looking for young, ambitious players, and his buyings so far are meeting standard. Also he is willing to giving opportunities to our academy. And his skill towards social media is phenomenal.

However, his tactical knowledge is very weak. During the games, he just sat there doing nothing, and relying on M. Phelan to lead our team at sideline. Also according to some news, Ole is using SAF's old method, to rely on M. Phelen and other coachs to construct the daily training. So i don't really know what is the job of Ole. Maybe just giving some opinions in two transfer windows every year?

So in conclusion i think we should promote Ole to DOF as the management role, instead of a coach. Ole can become a very good "yes man" between Ed Woodward and the coach, and he knows our culture very well, constructing a blueprint for Man Utd in future.

And for the coach side, i think we need a coach, with strong character and modern philosophy to impart to our young players. J. Nagelsmann is the one i looking forward, willing to promote young players, strong character to impart his modern attacking football style to Hoffenheim and now RB Leipzig, which Man Utd is desperate need. He really remind me of Klopp at Dortmund.
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I kind of agree with you.

I think we need better coaches also. You don’t go 6 years without improving a single player and blame it all on managers/Woodward/no DOF.... the lack of individual player’s having noticeable improvement is not good.
 
I can’t believe how excited some or you are acting that he could be sacked in the future.

Some very strange “fans” around these days.
 
Adam-Utd said:
I can’t believe how excited some or you are acting that he could be sacked in the future.

Some very strange “fans” around these days.
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The alternative is to be excited that he stays? It's just too ends of the spectrum. You are excited that he stays. Good on you, i'm more excited on the hope we get a manger who plays attaching football and is a better manager than what Norwich have. But that's just me.
 
Tom Cato said:
So SAF wins the Premier League this season with Crystal Palace?
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I think you missed my point on your original post which was basically agreeing with you.

Barcelona have not had Messi playing, in a surprising twist results are not as good without him.

We have an average team AND arguably our best two players missing and people are fuming because we can't beat West Ham away (who have lost only 2 games at home in 2019).

Its all the managers fault though, quality of players available is irrelevant.
 
Leftback99 said:
I think you missed my point on your original post which was basically agreeing with you.

Barcelona have not had Messi playing, in a surprising twist results are not as good without him.

We have an average team AND arguably our best two players missing and people are fuming because we can't beat West Ham away (who have lost only 2 games at home in 2019).

Its all the managers fault though, quality of players available is irrelevant.
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Then it turns out I missed your original point, apologies.
 
I would give a lot a money to be able to watch one training session of the first team. There is something fundamentally wrong about the way we approach games. It was the same against Astana despite the kids playing. I understand the excuses (valid or not) made to defend Ole but there is no excuse for the way we execute simple plays.

I want to know what the strategy is on set pieces. First why is Ashley Young taking them when he's been terrible at it for years ? If the delivery isn't good enough from Young, can't we just switch the player Pereira or Mata ?

When DDG clears the ball, why Lindelof and Maguire are standing inside the 6 yards box so far away from the rest of the team leaving them no options but to play a long ball that we always lose ?

Why is Rashford not pressing the opposing defenders but sometimes go all the way to press the goalkeeper if there is no one to follow and making him lose energy for absolutely no reason ?

Why is no one on the bench reacting to this ?

To me, there is no Glazers or Woodward reason to explain this, it's the coaching staff not doing a job good enough. In his press conferences, OGS talks a lot about the "United Way", playing fast and with the desire to always score goals so why are we seeing the exact opposite ?
 
Tom Cato said:
Is it? This was reported on during the pre season tour before we had even played one game. I am sure you have heard the term "confirmation bias"? When you read something you agree on, and commenters around you only cement your belief that your opinion is in fact, correct, without the need to verify any type of source.

But to prove Im not actually making this up, since you wont take my word for it, since you read a sentence in a article that fits well with the narrative you want to belive in, here is an article from July 2019 citing that VERY statement:

http://fcnaija.com/man-utd-players-complain-of-solskjaer-old-school-training -

"Manchester United players have complained about manager Ole Gunnar Solksjaer training method -just less than a week into the training for the new season.
Some of the players are of the view that the manager priorities fitness over ball work which is the major complaint of the members, according to the report in ESPN."

Were we watching the same pre season? The team had one bad half in the entire pre-season tour. The first half against Milan in the 2-2 game at Cardiff. Against Tottenham we parked the bus.. on their half. A start contrast to the PL game when the opposite happened. The game against Inter was a one way show, they never came close to being dangerous, a perfect pre-season game. Of all the players, especially Mason Greenwood had a great pre-season tour, as well as Pogba and AWB.

Listen, if the results suddenly change overnight, its not down to the manager, its down to the players. Hell, if there is no manager that attends the game, the players should be able to just go on the pitch and win the match against lesser players, they are that good. These are not children that need to be told to press or play a certain way. The manager lay the framework, the players execute. Unfortunately the ball is round and result flow is an actual thing.

As for being outcoached by everyone: http://solskjaertabellen.com/ - Even with the shitty result streak from last season, the end result was still MUFC in third after OGS arrived. I just mention it since hes still being judged this season, on last seasons run. Remember when DDG went from the best to the worst goalie in the EPL? Because I do. He was directly responsible for several losses.

Listen: If Pogba scores on his penalty, if Rashford scores on his penalty, we are 6 points up. The margins have not been there. But more than anything we lack a player that can be the go-to goalscorer. Marcus Rashford should have been that guy. Rashford alone has missed more chances than anyone. Not "so so" chances, but free-on-keeper chances. Thats not acceptable. That is on Rashford and Rashford alone. And Dalot, and Mata, and Maguire, and everyone else who has missed open net chances. I am completely holding the players accountable for their inability to execute playground level footballing skills when it matters the most.

But it would seem we look at things very, very differently. And see different teams. Especially if you came from the pre-season and think we looked poor, did you even watch any of the games?
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About the quote, fcnaija as a source, really? But i do actually remember there being grumblings in the press in pre-season from some of the players so i know you're not making that up. The two can both exist though. I really don't understand why it is far-fetched that some of the team are going to be concerned about the way we are setup on the pitch for how long now.

About the pre-season matches, it's a matter of opinion whether you think we played well. I would suggest it's easier to perform when you play in a low pressure environment. The pre-season doesn't really enter into my argument anyway. I make my reasoning based on what i have seen from us every week in a competitive environment.

And the table from when he became permanent manager? 13th. Played 14; won 4, drawn 4, lost 6 with -5 GD. Yes he has been outcoached by the majority of opponents since he became permanent. Look up our matches and performances. Nuno Santo, Pellegrini, Javi Gracia & Marco Silva all got the better of him last season. We also haven't won an away game in 9 attempts and counting yet.

About the chances missed, you can say that about any failing manager/team can't you? If he scores, it would be totally different etc... I think that would be a results orientated way of looking at it. I am only interested in what i see on the pitch every week, then taking it all into account.

He's been here over 8 months now and can you point to what has improved since he came in? His in-game management is suspect. Where is the supposed structure on the pitch? The midfield and attack is absolutely shocking. Where are the progressive patterns of play in any phases of the match? Every match we do the same old routine of hoofing it up the channels for Rashford to chase and if that doesn't work, well too bad then. We are still as clueless as ever at attacking vs deep defences. Training ground set-pieces? I can't remember the last time we took a set-piece that was creative and well drilled.

Can you point to any of the existing players that have improved since he has been here? When Ole first came in, he said he wanted to build the side around Pogba, now he has got him playing deep in a midfield pivot with no support and players are playing out of position?

If i saw the positives on the pitch from his coaching on the training ground then i would be able to believe in him but i see nothing positive on the pitch about him or us for a long time now.
 
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Adam-Utd said:
I can’t believe how excited some or you are acting that he could be sacked in the future.

Some very strange “fans” around these days.
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I'm excited that maybe we might have a manager and coaching set-up that isn't one of the very worst in the league in the near future.

I am grateful for his caretaker period, his faith in youth, trying to instill a work ethic into the club and his signings but on the pitch... never a top manager in a million years.
 
Captain Paris said:
I would give a lot a money to be able to watch one training session of the first team. There is something fundamentally wrong about the way we approach games. It was the same against Astana despite the kids playing. I understand the excuses (valid or not) made to defend Ole but there is no excuse for the way we execute simple plays.
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*Woodward's eyes light up*

*Woodward reads the rest of your post*

*Woodward shrugs sullenly, 'whatever'*
 
Where can one find stats on the 6 games so far in terms of sprints and overall distance covered?
 
Everyone accepts that the players are not good. This is why I keep harping about how almost any team in the PL has better midfield players than us
 
Foxbatt said:
Everyone accepts that the players are not good. This is why I keep harping about how almost any team in the PL has better midfield players than us
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They really don't though...

Pogba
McTom
Matic
Fred
Mata

While thin, after not not replacing Herrera or Fellaini, is enough to at least form a coherent midfield.

Every area of the team looks really poorly coached - none of them look clued up and functional.

And most tellingly - the team as a whole is disjointed, and that is down to coaching.
 
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