Signing low-profile British-Irish potential

2cents

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With all the links in recent weeks with the flood of young players, I often notice lots of comments like “love this type of signing”, “Fergie-type signing”, etc.

But how often have we actually made these type of signings, and how often have they worked out for us historically? I’m really struggling to think of one proper success story in the last 25 years. I don’t count the likes of Rio, Rooney or Shaw who were crazy expensive and well-established internationals (and Shaw hasn’t really worked anyway). When I think of these signings I’m thinking the likes of Smalling and Jones, part of the reason we are where we are.

Seems to me that most of the time when our younger, low-profile signings have succeeded, they’ve come from foreign leagues, while it’s when we’ve shopped at the top that we’ve succeeded with our domestic signings.
 
We have been poor for so long fans have gone mad.

apparently the recipe for success is brexit united with work horse lee cattermole types. because "passion".
 
the old adage, “past performance is not a indicator of future performance” rings a bit true here. We’ve had plenty of shite low profile foreign players as well.
 
I suppose this comes from the early days in Fergie's reign when we started getting good - people we brought in for relatively modest sums like Irwin, Bruce, Phelan and, for a bit more money, Ince, Keane, Pallister, etc
 
All they need is guidance, they have the passion to play for united, with the right structure and a new dof those youngster will become our own class of 92. They idolize carrick, and those kids must have pretended to be ole in 1999.
 
Depends how good they are and whether you actually give them a fair crack of the whip. Fergie didn't give youngsters much of a sniff at all in his later years. He would have done with Powell of course if the guy hadn't been a complete bellend. Probably would have done a good job with Zaha too if he hadn't retired.

Much as I dislike the prick, I wouldn't turn my nose up at Vardy right now though for example.
 
Maybe it's down to the belief that (young) british players see it as more prestigious or a greater honour to play for Manchester United compared to someone from France or Spain for example, who didn't grow up with Manchester United in the news everyday.
 
2cents said:
With all the links in recent weeks with the flood of young players, I often notice lots of comments like “love this type of signing”, “Fergie-type signing”, etc.

But how often have we actually made these type of signings, and how often have they worked out for us historically? I’m really struggling to think of one proper success story in the last 25 years. I don’t count the likes of Rio, Rooney or Shaw who were crazy expensive and well-established internationals (and Shaw hasn’t really worked anyway). When I think of these signings I’m thinking the likes of Smalling and Jones, part of the reason we are where we are.

Seems to me that most of the time when our younger, low-profile signings have succeeded, they’ve come from foreign leagues, while it’s when we’ve shopped at the top that we’ve succeeded with our domestic signings.
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You say about Fergie type signings, but at that time, most team made Fergie type signings, there was still a strong supply of Scottish/Irish players to be had. Now the big clubs go for the best. If we are not going to also sign some of the best foreign players it is a risky strategy, it could work or it could cement us as a mid-table PL side. I have no problem us going for these youngsters, but if that is all we do, then we will be a long way off the challengers.
 
There’s nothing wrong with British-Irish potential. Getting the best of the home nation will probably be good for the club in the long run. On the other hand, I don’t see the low profile thing as anything to be proud of. Keane, Rooney, Rio etc weren’t low profile players. What matters is the quality that’s there. Is it there with some of these players we’ve been linked to? I’ve never watched any of them so I can’t say.
 
Either British, Irish young potential or international old over the hill players.
That should be our policy.
 
I am probably the least person to defend this policy and I repeat, I am against signing players because of nationality. However I think we should see things into context

A- Squads were smaller then they are today. Which means less players were needed
B- Our youth academy basically dominated United's transfer strategy. Its not just the class of 92 which provided us with so much quality but also players like OShea, Fletcher, Wes, the twins and co who made United less dependent on buying young 'homegrown' players
C- SAF became very sentimental late in his career. That meant that players overstayed when they should have been shown the door earlier then they did
D- Nepotism and incompetence crept within the club and it didn't had a good effect. We never managed to replace Harrison adequately + Martin Ferguson was a train wreck who shouldn't have come close to any big club let alone a club like ours. This guy became our chief scout
E- SAF was inflexible not only with top players but also with young players as well. I heard from very good sources that a young Michael Owen was very close to sign with us but Sir Alex turned it down when his father wanted us to 'sweeten' the deal
F- Championship teams were rich enough to ask top money for their talent. Which meant it was often cheaper to sign players from elsewhere then buy young English talent. I remember Ipswich asking 6m for Kieron Dyer. 3 years before we bought Ole, Karel Poborsky and Ronnie Johnsen for around that fee.

Having said that we did have some successes. Lee Sharpe was signed from Torquay and became an English international while playing for us. Foster would have been a decent backup for us but unfortunately he wasn't good enough for first team and there's of course Chris Smalling.
 
The names we've been linked with would sort of be like signing Carrick straight from West Ham. When we were at the top, we were prepared to wait until they proved themselves and then pay more. With the state of our squad at the moment, a Carrick straight out of West Ham would be welcomed with open arms.

Also, back then we were the number one choice for most young British players. If we wait too long now and they have a break out season, there's a chance they will pick City or Liverpool over us.
 
2cents said:
With all the links in recent weeks with the flood of young players, I often notice lots of comments like “love this type of signing”, “Fergie-type signing”, etc.

But how often have we actually made these type of signings, and how often have they worked out for us historically? I’m really struggling to think of one proper success story in the last 25 years. I don’t count the likes of Rio, Rooney or Shaw who were crazy expensive and well-established internationals (and Shaw hasn’t really worked anyway). When I think of these signings I’m thinking the likes of Smalling and Jones, part of the reason we are where we are.

Seems to me that most of the time when our younger, low-profile signings have succeeded, they’ve come from foreign leagues, while it’s when we’ve shopped at the top that we’ve succeeded with our domestic signings.
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Not necessarily us, but look at these names for instance in recent times:

Dele Alli
Andrew Robertson
Ben Davies

You saying they'd not have worked out?
 
I remember when Paul Lambert took over at Villa. He then embarked on a bizzare transfer strategy where he signed players exclusively from League One and Two like Lichaj, Lowton and Westwood (probs others I can’t recall). They were promptly relegated.

Obviously, we won’t have the same outcome, but we could end up mid-table if we embarked on a Waitrose version of the same strategy, and it doesn’t work. However, I doubt that is the strategy we will be adopting. It will be a blend of that though.
 
There’s nothing wrong with having a good portion of your squad being young hungry players. But we do need to ensure experience as well.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Not necessarily us, but look at these names for instance in recent times:

Dele Alli
Andrew Robertson
Ben Davies

You saying they'd not have worked out?
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Actually I think this is a major part of the reason for the enthusiasm - seeing Spurs and Liverpool pick up a few gems this way.
 
United should be trying to sign the best players. And with the amount of young English talent there is right now that strategy will not prevent the club from having a British core.
 
Nothing wrong with singing youngsters whether they're from uk or around the world. Any young player we sign won't go into first 11 but most likely will be in reserves/squad player and we'll look to help them develop to become premiership quality players.

Its a long term strategy and people are panicking because they think they'll be first team players next season.:lol::rolleyes:
 
Whenever our team needed refreshing SAF didn't really focus on English players. Our British player rep was heavily padded by the anomalous class of 92. As a transfer strategy he never forced it, he just went all-out for them as the right ones became available. Hope our coaching staff dont emulate a misguided version of SAF's success.

If SAF was still here many of the British players in our team would have been moved on a while ago to be replaced by more promising ones. Instead we're now stockpiling average like Young and Jones under some misguided interpretation of the United way
 
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Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I suppose this comes from the early days in Fergie's reign when we started getting good - people we brought in for relatively modest sums like Irwin, Bruce, Phelan and, for a bit more money, Ince, Keane, Pallister, etc
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Goes back a lot longer than that. Matt Busby and Jimmy Murphy were huge proponents of that philosophy, playing kids alongside experienced men with the odd big signing. Tommy Doc did the same thing, but did a lot of shopping in Scotland and the lower divisions, and that paid dividends. Fergie just continued the tradition.
 
I would agree with you that under Ferguson we had success by buying the best British players for decent amounts and then looking for bargains from abroad.

That said I think it's a market we should be more active in and our bizarre policy of signing almost no British players since Ferguson retired has been a disaster. We bought Lindelof for £30m when Maguire was available for half that amount and is a better player. Last summer we bought Dalot for £20m when that money could have got us Wan-Bissaka who is now worth 3x that amount. We've needed a right wing for ages but let Bournemouth buy Brooks for £11m and then watched as he got more goals and assists than Mata and Lingard combined. Tottenham bought Dele Alli for £5m at around the same time we spent £90m on Pogba. Leicester got Maddison for £20m the summer we spent £50m on Fred.

We constantly miss out on bargains because we have preferred buying expensive foreign players over cheaper British players and it's high time we changed that.
 
TsuWave said:
We have been poor for so long fans have gone mad.

apparently the recipe for success is brexit united with work horse lee cattermole types. because "passion".
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Yeah I'd be okay with one or maybe two but signing more than that is just silly. Not every player with potential is going to be a breakout star. The chances of unearthing a gem from lower leagues is pretty low as is and signing more than one hoping they'd be the next TAA or Alli is sucidal.
 
settembrini said:
I would agree with you that under Ferguson we had success by buying the best British players for decent amounts and then looking for bargains from abroad.

That said I think it's a market we should be more active in and our bizarre policy of signing almost no British players since Ferguson retired has been a disaster. We bought Lindelof for £30m when Maguire was available for half that amount and is a better player. Last summer we bought Dalot for £20m when that money could have got us Wan-Bissaka who is now worth 3x that amount. We've needed a right wing for ages but let Bournemouth buy Brooks for £11m and then watched as he got more goals and assists than Mata and Lingard combined. Tottenham bought Dele Alli for £5m at around the same time we spent £90m on Pogba. Leicester got Maddison for £20m the summer we spent £50m on Fred.

We constantly miss out on bargains because we have preferred buying expensive foreign players over cheaper British players and it's high time we changed that.
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Good post
 
Couldn't care less about nationality, though obviously we will always look to have a certain amount of homegrown talent.

Identifying low-profile, under the radar young talent is something every club should try to do though. Especially ones like us who face a multi-year rebuild. It's nothing to complain about.
 
settembrini said:
I would agree with you that under Ferguson we had success by buying the best British players for decent amounts and then looking for bargains from abroad.

That said I think it's a market we should be more active in and our bizarre policy of signing almost no British players since Ferguson retired has been a disaster. We bought Lindelof for £30m when Maguire was available for half that amount and is a better player. Last summer we bought Dalot for £20m when that money could have got us Wan-Bissaka who is now worth 3x that amount. We've needed a right wing for ages but let Bournemouth buy Brooks for £11m and then watched as he got more goals and assists than Mata and Lingard combined. Tottenham bought Dele Alli for £5m at around the same time we spent £90m on Pogba. Leicester got Maddison for £20m the summer we spent £50m on Fred.

We constantly miss out on bargains because we have preferred buying expensive foreign players over cheaper British players and it's high time we changed that.
Click to expand...

Agree with all this, really frustrating to watch us miss out on these.
 
settembrini said:
I would agree with you that under Ferguson we had success by buying the best British players for decent amounts and then looking for bargains from abroad.

That said I think it's a market we should be more active in and our bizarre policy of signing almost no British players since Ferguson retired has been a disaster. We bought Lindelof for £30m when Maguire was available for half that amount and is a better player. Last summer we bought Dalot for £20m when that money could have got us Wan-Bissaka who is now worth 3x that amount. We've needed a right wing for ages but let Bournemouth buy Brooks for £11m and then watched as he got more goals and assists than Mata and Lingard combined. Tottenham bought Dele Alli for £5m at around the same time we spent £90m on Pogba. Leicester got Maddison for £20m the summer we spent £50m on Fred.

We constantly miss out on bargains because we have preferred buying expensive foreign players over cheaper British players and it's high time we changed that.
Click to expand...
Should also mention we spent £60m on him and Bailly when we had Tuanzebe...
 
What’s the fetish with having to be British.

I’ve never understood that aspect. Sure I get there’s a bit of bias involved in the country which the EPL is played but England players/talent has severely slacked compared to other countries recently. Why not just go for quality low profile signings in general. Why limit ourselves? Dalot isn’t English and he seems to fit the profile...
 
Ole’s Wheel said:
What’s the fetish with having to be British.

I’ve never understood that aspect. Sure I get there’s a bit of bias involved in the country which the EPL is played but England players/talent has severely slacked compared to other countries recently. Why not just go for quality low profile signings in general. Why limit ourselves? Dalot isn’t English and he seems to fit the profile...
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If the rumors are to go by, we are after Joao Felix. not exactly low profile but definitely a gem.
 
This won't just be a 'United' strategy, it will happen more and more as transfer fee's for established players become increasingly ridiculous.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it as a strategy, how we execute it will be key!
 
I think people need to realise that we just need to start being better than we are now, just to stand still in the league.
 
The likes of Young and Jones and Lingard must be shivering with fear right now.
 
It doesn't really matter where we're buying them from if our track record is gonna continue at the same rate as it has done for the last ten years - failure after failure both foreign and domestic, low cost and high. There's no type of player that we can say "yup, this is a successful strategy, go with that," bar maybe young Spanish keeper which is 1/1. Ageing Arsenal forward refusing a new contract is very much hit and miss.
 
It was easy for SAF to take punts because we were the most dominant team in the league back then.

There is much more risk involved with taking punts on unknown players from lower leagues when our actual first team is in dire need of quality.
 
It’s punt, they aren’t signed for ready first team but we develop them. Better than spending on 30m-50m deadwood.
 
It’s fine to try to pick up a few young British players in the hope of finding a gem or two. The problem is that we should simultaneously be getting rid of the fake gems we already have: Lingard, Jones, and Young. But instaed of getting rid of them, they are constantly picked to the first team.
Who came up with this strategy? Gary Neville?
 
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