very rare, must be a system error.
Plane carrying Chapocoense players crashes | Nossa Chape documentary
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
I dont want to be disrespectful , really I dont but why ?
Other team have suffered the in the same way, Torino for one did we do it for them?
Pay repects have help out with money or w
Got booked for it.
No excuse for booking him for that.
Got booked for it.
Sorry if it's already been mentioned but Messi has donated $5 MILLION! to the players families. I know it's not a lot to him, but still, that's an outstanding gesture from the best player in the world. Absolutely amazing to see an Argentinian player give so much money to a Brazilian club/players families , especially considering the rivalry between the two South American countries. It's been heart-warming reading about the help that the club and players families are receiving. Makes a real change to be honest.
How long is it suspected that the landing was delayed by?
Personally, I hope it is a fabrication. For his family's sake, his frantic final words shouldn't the led story on the 6 o'clock news.
The narrative would tally with some of the speculation though.
Personally, I hope it is a fabrication. For his family's sake, his frantic final words shouldn't the led story on the 6 o'clock news.
The narrative would tally with some of the speculation though.
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The Torino disaster happened 9 years before Munich mate.
Actually Argentinians and Brazilians get along pretty well football aside. Messi himself got a lot of protection by the Brazilians when he was young and got into the dressing room.
Everyone here showed their concern. Almost every team is playing with the Chapecoense shield in their shirts, and the minutes of silence has been respected in every stadium (which is not usual).
PS: I read it was 10 millon.
I should have clarified, but I meant purely football rivalry.
Wow! Even better, but I've not seen that, but seen a few reports saying $5 Million. Whichever, it's still an extremely generous gesture.
It's extremely rare. Most of the cases are pilot errors or due to incapacitation due to losing air pressure in the cockpit after a structural damage. Fuel is usually well calculated and has to be double checked (on pilot's checklist as well) as you have to have exactly the needed amount otherwise if you are too heavy you might have issues in the landing approach.
The cause will take time to be widely known I guess.
There's nothing online about such a donation.
I imagine this has brought painful memories back to Sir Bobby, I do hope the club offer their support during this tragedy.
Not sure if these have been posted
An amateur analysis did by someone citing lack of fuel (it was flying near max range) and also another emergency aircraft approaching airport at similar time.
The actual ATC footage of that time (not in real time, silences may be cut). The ending is real tough to hear. It may seem that the pilot didn't make it clear his emergency situation and when he did it was probably too late.
This is all guesswork. Will have to wait for actual investigation report.
RIP.
An amateur analysis did by someone citing lack of fuel (it was flying near max range) and also another emergency aircraft approaching airport at similar time.
The actual ATC footage of that time (not in real time, silences may be cut). The ending is real tough to hear. It may seem that the pilot didn't make it clear his emergency situation and when he did it was probably too late.
This is all guesswork. Will have to wait for actual investigation report.
RIP.
I hope that is true.
It's an awful tragedy and nothing will make up for it, but the way the footballing world has united together for Chapocoense is lovely to see.
RIP
So I've been flying myself a lot the last couple of days and haven't been able to follow this well.
I am not sure what the rules are in South America but if they follow ICAO then it should be similar to rules I fly under.
Aircraft carries fuel to cover trip fuel (Departure to destination) + Reserve ( 5% of trip) + Alternate fuel ( destination to alternate + 30 mins holding above alternate for 30 minutes) + extra fuel. All of this is equal to BLOCK fuel. The alternate fuel is trip distance for destination to alternate + 30 mins like I said.. This is called Minimum Diversion Fuel. As per regulations you HAVE TO divert to alternate before you hit MDF. There are some provisions for when you can "commit to land" at original destination and continue flying in to your MDF fuel.
30 mins of holding over alternate is also called Final Fuel this is what he says in that ATC transmission. That they are in final, that means they have burned through a lot of fuel to reach that. Normally a pilot first has to declare Minimum fuel if he suspects that any change in the plan of in his time to land will make him eat out of his FINAL fuel. Then a pilot has to declare FUEL EMERGENCY when he is either within the FINAL FUEL amount or suspects he will be before he lands. This is where I think sadly that the pilots messed up. I don't think they declared a proper fuel emergency at the right time which meant that the controller did not understand the severity of their situation. If he had declared it earlier he would have been given absolute priority to land and would have easily landed since he was already close to the airfield.
This is what I can tell from that ATC recording.
I am not sure what the rules are in South America but if they follow ICAO then it should be similar to rules I fly under.
Aircraft carries fuel to cover trip fuel (Departure to destination) + Reserve ( 5% of trip) + Alternate fuel ( destination to alternate + 30 mins holding above alternate for 30 minutes) + extra fuel. All of this is equal to BLOCK fuel. The alternate fuel is trip distance for destination to alternate + 30 mins like I said.. This is called Minimum Diversion Fuel. As per regulations you HAVE TO divert to alternate before you hit MDF. There are some provisions for when you can "commit to land" at original destination and continue flying in to your MDF fuel.
30 mins of holding over alternate is also called Final Fuel this is what he says in that ATC transmission. That they are in final, that means they have burned through a lot of fuel to reach that. Normally a pilot first has to declare Minimum fuel if he suspects that any change in the plan of in his time to land will make him eat out of his FINAL fuel. Then a pilot has to declare FUEL EMERGENCY when he is either within the FINAL FUEL amount or suspects he will be before he lands. This is where I think sadly that the pilots messed up. I don't think they declared a proper fuel emergency at the right time which meant that the controller did not understand the severity of their situation. If he had declared it earlier he would have been given absolute priority to land and would have easily landed since he was already close to the airfield.
This is what I can tell from that ATC recording.
I remembered that has I was typing it out, thought I had deleted it to be honest.
WOW I sound like a right numpty now.
Sorry All.
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it is Pretty close to it .
This is from the ICAO.
Commercial Flights
Per ICAO Annex 6, Part I, section 4.3.6 "Fuel Requirements," airplanes should calculate their required fuel quantity as follows (summary; see below for actual ICAO text):
- Taxi fuel
- Trip fuel (to reach intended destination)
- Contingency fuel (higher of 5% of "trip fuel" or 5 minutes of holding flight)
- Destination alternate fuel (to fly a missed and reach an alternate)
- Final reserve fuel (45 minutes of holding flight for reciprocating engines, 30 minutes for jets)
- Additional fuel (if needed to guarantee ability to reach an alternate with an engine failure or at lower altitude due to a pressurization loss)
- Discretionary fuel (if the pilot in command wants it)
That's the ICAO rules. Countries don't have to follow them. Each country has their own and so does each company. Like in my company we do not have "commit to land". As a captain, I absolutely HAVE to divert to my alternate if I'm about to hit MDF. Even if I know I'll be on approach soon.
Cheers for that , I would of thought , minimum fuel requirements would be standard worldwide.
What a stupid fecking reason to die.
Yeah. And his team mates broke the news to him. Here's the video of how they did it
Would break your heart watching that
fecking hell thats just so horrible to watch
Is there any more information on how this tragic event happened? And any truth to the Ronaldo and Messi donations?
Pilot decided not to land and refuel somewhere? Initial refuelling spot couldn't be used due to the airport being closed at night?
That's what I've read, but also heard he dumped fuel to stop an explosion?
These aircraft incidents are always so difficult for us common folk to understand.
That's what I've read, but also heard he dumped fuel to stop an explosion?
These aircraft incidents are always so difficult for us common folk to understand.
It seems like this idea came from the fact there was no explosion, and something one of the survivors said but actually it just ran our of fuel (from the convo with air traffic control).
That's my take on it.
Stupid stupid reason to die.
If it did run out of fuel I agree, horrible reason to end so many lives. He doesn't actually say it ran out though does he? Just there is no fuel? Which is open to interpretation. Black box should tell all though?
Isn't that what hapoened to a Columbian airliner that ran out if fuel while holding over NY in the late 80's?
Yes you are right , it was an Avianca B707.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/fuel-primary-avianca-flight-52-crash-1990-article-1.2487408
One thing that strikes me is two aircrafts at the same time declaring emergency and BOTH diverted to MDE. You fan see the flight pattern of the A320 it has nearly reached Panama when declaring emergency. It's not that big of an aircraft so I guess he could land at pretty much every international airport. Same for the RJ85 why was it in holding pattern declaring emergency and low on fuel(surely the pilot would mention that to the tower considering how close it is to the max trip fuel) and diverted to the MDE airport which has only one runway?
EOH airport in Medellin is nearby with 2.5km runway - more than enough for RJ85 to land there. Although not international airport it it's controlled airport and surely can accommodate that landing at the time instead of instructing the plane in holding pattern in mountainous terrain with electrical failure that could mean GPWS or some other system can be damaged.
I don't see why the ATC directed both planes to that runway. Especially since the A320 can overshoot or miss the approach and have to go for a go-around which would mean at least another 10 mins or so for holding of the RJ85 with no runway in sight in that terrain.
I read the pilot was the owner of the private flight company they were using. Pure speculation but as the owner he could have been penny pinching and using the minimum amount of fuel possible.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-38165757
Sounds like the pilot was too casual about the flight from this.
Addressing the backup fuel:
Sounds like the pilot was too casual about the flight from this.
Addressing the backup fuel:
I don't know which one is worse. This one or the Lokomotiv Yaroslavl one in 2011 where during take-off one of the pilots was accelerating and at the same time braking which meant they couldn't reach a high enough speed and they crashed seconds after take-off.
I speak Portuguese, he clearly states they are on their way to Medellín.
Maybe that's what some of these spoilt brats need. The issue is whether Chapecoense deserve to be turned into a spoilt Bentley bootcamp.
I am seeing reports that Ronaldinho and Riquelme to make sensational comeback from retirement to play for Chapecoense.
That may well be the case , but the aircraft was not a 146, they do not have center seating , a 146 has a central walkway with seat either side , that vid looks like an airbus..
This is the inside of a 146.
That may well be the case , but the aircraft was not a 146, they do not have center seating , a 146 has a central walkway with seat either side , that vid looks like an airbus..
This is the inside of a 146.
The video might've been from their first flight (commercial) to Santa Cruz where they switched to the chartered plane.
Good point.
Short haul flights in Brazil are usually Airbus, probably a first leg and not the plane that crashed. Doesn't make the video any less heart-breaking or relevant.That may well be the case , but the aircraft was not a 146, they do not have center seating , a 146 has a central walkway with seat either side , that vid looks like an airbus..
This is the inside of a 146.
Edit: oh, I see you had worked that out already