Ji_Maria
Full Member
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2014
- Messages
- 608
You should learn how to read. They may have schools for that.You worded it as if they were in form during the world cup. They weren't, you dolt.
You should learn how to read. They may have schools for that.You worded it as if they were in form during the world cup. They weren't, you dolt.
Ask yourself why two people "misread" your post. Maybe it's you.You should learn how to read.
In his defence, in his later years at Madrid he was basically finished.I lived through the Zidane too era and don't even think he is even on Ronaldo's level of greatness. He was a big game player no question but I watched a lot of Madrid in that era and he wasn't close to the consistency levels of Messi and Ronaldo. I firmly believe that Messi is the best ever. He is the best I have ever seen anyway.
Maybe it's two people who inflect their own defensive Messi fanboism into any post that attempts to criticize Messi? Maybe after 3 responses you still haven't addressed the substance of my post (i.e., choking on a massive scale at the highest level)? Maybe you also need to learn how to count (they may have some academy somewhere that teaches that).Ask yourself why two people "misread" your post. Maybe it's you.
Clap for the internet psycho-analyst.@Ji_Maria - Although it was a nice initial effort, being visibly stirred enough that I can tell from my own screen that your hands were shaking as you type in the followup hurts the WUM quality.
You mean someone like this? Ronaldo was class no matter where he played or who he played with. Just compare the below clips with the one above. What a world of difference.Yes, someone with more composure who could finish that run off.
Right, of course Ronaldo never ever entered the box without it resulting in a goal or assist. Ever.You mean someone like this? Ronaldo was class no matter where he played or who he played with. Just compare the below clips with the one above. What a world of difference.
Phenomenal player!You mean someone like this? Ronaldo was class no matter where he played or who he played with. Just compare the below clips with the one above. What a world of difference.
Unbelievable player at his prime, absolutely an unstoppable one-man wrecking train. Essentially a bigger, stronget, faster and more agile version of Messi. Too bad his career ended early to injuries.
That's rather ironic considering Ronaldo's ("special") relationship with Nike was very much at the forefront of the exponential rise of commercial interests in football...The criminal thing is how modern football commercial interests are bent on pretending Ronaldo Lima never happened and that there was no football before the "GOAT" Messi and CR7. Sells more jerseys and TV rights in China and the US I guess. Goal records and stats, ha, this isn't baseball.
Ronaldinho did.This.
He has completely mastered the sport. You cannot use the ball better than he does, it's not possible.
Until recently (with the buildup to the 2006 WC), football has always been a sideshow for sponsorship, even during the Ronaldo Lima years. Nike's historical annual reports state what their target sports are, and you can view how this list has changed and evolved.That's rather ironic considering Ronaldo's ("special") relationship with Nike was very much at the forefront of the exponential rise of commercial interests in football...
Yep. He's getting more economical too, instead of dribbling past 5 players he'll play a perfect lofted pass to take them all of the game in one actionWhat I also find interesting about Messi is that he hardly uses tricks or skills. He rarely does a scissor trick or elastico for example. Everything he does is so economical, he just blasts past you with insane close control.
He's got great control, balance and incredible vision. But lets not make the mostake of saying he's fast - his speed is bang average compared to the likes pf Robben or Bale (something like 5km/hr slower when recording top speeds in game).What I also find interesting about Messi is that he hardly uses tricks or skills. He rarely does a scissor trick or elastico for example. Everything he does is so economical, he just blasts past you with insane close control.
In Argentina they call it the Gambetta dribbling style. This style focuses upper body movements like body feints, shimmies, shoulder drop etc. But don't take my word for it, I read it off from somewhere a long time ago.He's got great control, balance and incredible vision. But lets not make the mostake of saying he's fast - his speed is bang average compared to the likes pf Robben or Bale (something like 5km/hr slower when recording top speeds in game).
Tricks arent part of his game because he doesnt need them due to his exceptional vision and positioning and passing ability, which I rate as all superior to Ronaldo Lima.
Ronaldo was one of the fastest players to ever play the game and could execute tricks at high speed to humilate defenders all over the world. His only downside is, that was basically his only way of playing and once his knee had gone it was pretty mich over.
In fairness your wording was very vague and can quite easily be misconstrued.You should learn how to read. They may have schools for that.
We all know Maradona was a great player, that bottom video though, I think in the modern game that would have been harder to score look at the defenders all of them try to slide tackle him, the back four is exposed too from the off. In a defence in Europe now they'd stay on their feet and try and make him run wide, yes Maradona would still probably score against that opposition but it was amateur defending in that video.The difference between Messi & Pele, Diego or the other greats in the past, is that everything is recorded and accesible. If you want to know how good was Messi at X thing, there's a video for it. And in different angles.
So you can access to Messi's legacy. And then the stats speak by themselves. We do not know that much about Diego. For example, Maradona said his best goal was against Deportivo Pereira, a colombian team when he arrived at Boca. All we had was this incredible picture with all his rivals in the floor.
A couple years ago, the footage was discovered
So, there are two factors: The stats and the videos to judge someone. Maradona was so good that the videos we have are enough to know he was something else. But everyone says that his best days were when he played for Argentinos Juniors and Boca. And we don't have that much content on that.
Then with the time we tend to relativize everything. Messi will be relativized. There will be another great player (I hope Argentinian lol) who will break a couple records and will win almost everything. The key here is that this future best player will have to win a world cup or two if he wants to compete with Messi. People will look for Messi's weaknesses and of course the international stage is one of them. Of course I won't relativize Messi. But those who hasn't seen him will do it.
I think it's hard with other sports, Snooker, Golf, Tennis etc you need a fairly wealthy family to fund it, go to lessons each week, where-as football you can kick around on the streets as you saidNowadays that is changing too. In Argentina I can tell you there is a lack of talent now. I think it happens because the street football is kinda loosing its place. I find it very important. The Potrero style is not related to poverty but to the working class. Messi's family has never been poor (Maradona, Tevez & Aguero they did were poor) but in the neighborhoods we used to play all day long when we were kids. It was part of a culture that now is getting lost. In the past you could see there were a lot of talents coming up (Aimar, Dalessandro, Riquelme, Tevez) and now those talents are A) Not coming up B) Being sold to Arsenal/Madrid while they are kids. And in the clubs, the academies now are selecting physical players over talented ones.
But the thinkers thing is just relative. For me Fernando Redondo is one of the best midfielders of all time, so is Riquelme. They are both "thinkers". The fail with Argentina is that the organization is really bad, the FA is corrupted and the coaches have been Maradona, Batista, Basile... who didn't have the level required to manage the team. Well, the entire organization of argentine football is ridiculous. The same happened with Brazil but they had the best generation of all time a couple times and won 5 world cups. Now that Oliveira is their N° 9 with 35 years old and they aren't even qualifying for the WC you can tell the CBF is just as caotic as the AFA.
Football is more complex than just running or racing or playing snookers. And way more popular. So the comparison is not valid for me.
LOL are you serious?
Records yeah Messi is amazing. But since when do we judge a player's talent based on records? And did Messi have a better career than Ronaldo notwithstanding his records? Honestly that is debataeble since he never won the WC whereas Ronaldo lifted the champions trophy in multiple leages plus European and WC competitions, half of those after his serious knee injury.JI Maria is letting nostalgia take over if he thinks Ronaldo is better than Messi, I don't even see how it is debatable when comparing the careers of both players.
Ronaldo never won the CL. Didn't win La Liga with Barcelona. Didn't win the Serie A with Inter. And won one league title with Real Madrid. Hes got the international trophies but just how you can't understate how important it is to win a WC, it's equally important not to understate the importance of record breaking goalscoring feats, dominant seasons year after year in a monopoly over the best league around, multiple CL wins (best competition in the modern game) and 5 Balon Dors (with something like 7 or 8 in a row in the top three). Plus it's not like he hasn't had an international career. He did nearly win the WC and Copa in the space of two years with the margins being very slim.Records yeah Messi is amazing. But since when do we judge a player's talent based on records? And did Messi have a better career than Ronaldo notwithstanding his records? Honestly that is debataeble since he never won the WC whereas Ronaldo lifted the champions trophy in multiple leages plus European and WC competitions, half of those after his serious knee injury.
Plus I cant get over how mediocore Messi has been at multiple WC. I dont think you can understate how big winning the WC is to a player's career. I guarantee Messi would trade all his CL or La Liga titles for a single WC trophy.
Messi wasn't mediocre at multiple WCs. He hasn't been close to his peak form we've seen at Barca, but he was still a quality player. I also think that it's highly unfair to hold Ronaldo's World Cup win (or wins if you want to include the 1994 one as well, which no one should) over Messi. For all the talk about how Messi can only do it with a terrific supporting cast like at Barca, surely we can't ignore how 'mediocre' Argentina's squad is compared to Brazil in 2002, where Ronaldo could play as a rather limited goalscorer and leave all the work of actually creating goalscoring chances to Rivaldo, Carlos, Cafu at their peak and a young and not at his peak yet but already quality Ronaldinho.Plus I cant get over how mediocore Messi has been at multiple WC. I dont think you can understate how big winning the WC is to a player's career. I guarantee Messi would trade all his CL or La Liga titles for a single WC trophy.
Is is possible to be physically stronger than Messi?To come back to this thread, let's ask three questions.
Is it possible to pass the ball better than Messi does? Yes (see Xavi among others)
Is it possible to shoot the ball better than Messi does? Yes (many players)
Is it possible to dribble better than Messi does? Probably yes (Maradona)
etc.
No to all.
It is a pile of shit, to be fair. Without the friendly matches, the total goes to 643 instead of 1088. In addition, the defenses back then were just awful.Point taken. But I'd say their fairly comparable, particularly if you're willing to rate the modern Champions League as equal to the World Cup in Pele's time (also worth noting that the over 1000 goal tally is fairly hotly disputed).
EasyAs good as Messi, I guess so yes. But better than Messi? We've seen Messi doing pretty much everything except win a WC. Multiple league titles, contributing to 2 trebles, 3 CL wins in which he participated, deciding big matches, solo goals against the very best defenders, scoring hattricks for fun, maintaining an unreal consistency since he broke through, insane level of playmaking, record amount of goals in a calender year (91!), record amount of goals in a season (73!), most Ballon D'Ors, and all this in modern football of which most people I think agree that football is being more fast-paced and professional than ever. And still only 28 for christ sake. We could safely say he has another 2 years in which he can play at his current level.
Seriously, how ridicilously good does someone have to be to outshine Messi?
I hate this point. Biceps strength and/or height and strength on a football pitch are completely different attributes. Messi's footballing strength is 10/10. No one else can ride challenges and keep going while his shirt is being pulled and getting hacked left and right like he does. No one.Is is possible to be physically stronger than Messi?
That's a sensible approach. Messi is a specialist, he's a magnificent dribbler, he's on a different time scale, he makes two steps and has two touches while others can only have one. Of course he's got the beautiful technique and touch to perform this at such a high speed, but it's this single quality that makes him really stand out.Is is possible to be physically stronger than Messi?
Is is possible to be better at headers than Messi?
Is it possible to be faster than Messi?
Is is possible to be better in penalty shoots (or even free kicks) than Messi?
Is it possible to have a bigger charisma/leadership than Messi?
Once thing is for sure, if Brazil has an exceptional talent, the Brazilians will make those claims. There should be a Brazilian discount, they are chauvinists who will always exeggerate and keep nagging on about it until the rest of the world gives in and agrees. That's why people rate Pele higher. As much as I was impressed with Ronaldo and even more with Ronaldinho, one should always take a least 10% off when it's a Brazilian, especially a Brazilian who is with Nike.I think that the answer to all of these is a clear yes. So, the ceiling is definitely not reached, not even close. Now will there be an another guy who will have all the things Messi has in addition to some of those I mentioned, is an another matter, and is hard to imagine that. But I think that people would have said the same for Di Stefano, Pele and Maradona (didn't mention Cruyff because Pele was before him and people rate Pele higher, although I just don't see it), so I guess that no-one knows.
That's a bit of a false notion though, Messi is a better player technically than Ronaldo (9) Ronaldinho and Zidane, levels above, and Maradona its arguable he is better than him too.No one will agree with me but until Messi wins the World Cup with Argentina - he will be one of the best but not the best of all time.
As amaZing as he is, there is a difference between Argentina messi and Barcelona messi and that to me is down to Barcelona being a well oiled machine. They were that even before Messi- who then took it two levels above.
That's why I rate international football so highly because you do not get half the practise or team you do at club level but you have players like Ronaldo, Maradona, Ronaldinho and Zidane playing things single handed.
If he wins it - it's not like he plays for Ecuador - greatest of all time and unlikely to be over taken.
Messi is fantastic but to me he does what other players do - better than anybody else. I watch him dribble past 3 or 4 defenders and scoring but more than the quality and shock of what I have seen- it's the consistency that I appreciate.That's a bit of a false notion though, Messi is a better player technically than Ronaldo (9) Ronaldinho and Zidane, levels above, and Maradona its arguable he is better than him too.
Those teams has great players around them, Messi is playing CM for Argentina and has a set of players who squander chance after chance and have poor decision making around him.
The same reason Portugal can't win having CR7.