I may be wrong, but hasn't he played a lot of his time at Madrid as a right back? I remember pepe and carvalho being the main defenders for quite a while
Sergio Ramos | Signs new 5 year contract
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If these are real "leaks" from the Madrid board then they're being a bunch of airseholes, trying to paint Perez as the levelheaded voice of reason and Ramos just demanding more money. Even if Perez is asking for Ramos to calm down it's a laugh considering the attacks to Ramos' character that Perez has been leading via Marca. It's like someone throwing a handful of their shit at you to intentionally get you angry, and then acting high and mighty by saying "let's not overreact".
I disagree, gaining ramos, losing DDG with Valdes has the replacement does not make us stronger, I say it makes us weaker at the back. We still need a top class RB
So is he going on holiday before we get a decision on this mess?
Does anyone think that Rafa being manager might have swayed Ramos to leave? I mean the players can't genuinely be happy
I don't think there is anything wrong with what you're saying. However, you seem to underestimate our ability to play a possession based game. Even last season most our problems have come from our impotency up front but in terms of controlling games and not letting our defence come under pressure, we were pretty good at it. Countrary to popular opinion, De Gea was not called to save us that often in the second part of the season and that was mainly because we started controlling games. Even against the big sides, we rarely came under pressure. In fact, I would say that from the Spurs game onwards, we were only under a sustained period of pressure for about 15mins vs City and about half an hour against Palace. My point is that it is not that far fetched to imagine us exerting even more control over games next season and signing a ball playing centre back is only going to help that process. Of course he is not a great pure defender as you point out but that's not necessarily the only way to go as has been shown by the best European sides over the past few years from Barcelona, Bayern and to a lesser extrent Real and Dortmund. In fact I would say only Chelsea and Atlético play with a system that requires that.
What it does is make us even better than we were last year in terms of controlling games. Despite our problems going forward last season, one thing we excelled at in the second half of the season is to not let teams put us under pressure because we controlled games and pressed well. If we get even better at at that which Valdes and Ramos will definitely help us achieve, we won't need to be strong at the back in the traditional sense.
At this point people are talking about many different reasons , even analyzing interviews and videos where they both appear (Florentino and him) . Those who defend the position of the board believe that Ramos, Iker and even Cristiano were very comfortable with Ancelotti , doing what they wanted and not satisfied with a coach who control them and put them in place , but in this case I think it is more a case of money and loss of respect/dignity
Mr. Anderson
I can't make up my mind about ramos, there are things going for and against him.
Pros:
1- He's a top experienced defender.
2- He's good on the ball which exactly what van gaal is looking for.
3- He's a hot head, which is something we need in the ocean of pussies we have now at the club.
Cons:
1- He's a cnut.
2- He's 29, and i always prefer signing players with something to prove rather than players looking at their last big contract.
3- He's a massive cnut.
4- He could be a pain in the ass in the dressing room if things don't go well with van gaal.
5- In the world most cnutish XI he's the captain.
Pros:
1- He's a top experienced defender.
2- He's good on the ball which exactly what van gaal is looking for.
3- He's a hot head, which is something we need in the ocean of pussies we have now at the club.
Cons:
1- He's a cnut.
2- He's 29, and i always prefer signing players with something to prove rather than players looking at their last big contract.
3- He's a massive cnut.
4- He could be a pain in the ass in the dressing room if things don't go well with van gaal.
5- In the world most cnutish XI he's the captain.
Point 1,3&5
let's buy him, he's more suited for premier league.We should sign him to raise our clubs sex appeal.
We need an exp CB, I think Otamendi has more to prove. Like for me it's a question of do we really have some leverage in the de gea deal? If we really do then I think doing a deal that takes bale or whoever makes more sense than taking ramos where otamendi is available. If we don't really have any leverage then doing a de gea deal and bringing ramos in is okay, and then look at our other issues as separate.
Honestly what I'd rather is we just stood firm and kept de gea. Test madrid and see if they sign a different keeper this summer. If they do then De Gea signs for a few more years, if they don't then he goes for free - what really is the difference between free and 20m when we're talking about someone who could be the worlds best gk for the next 15 years? And honestly, would de gea stay and leave on a bosman? He knows he would be hated forever by one of the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.
Honestly what I'd rather is we just stood firm and kept de gea. Test madrid and see if they sign a different keeper this summer. If they do then De Gea signs for a few more years, if they don't then he goes for free - what really is the difference between free and 20m when we're talking about someone who could be the worlds best gk for the next 15 years? And honestly, would de gea stay and leave on a bosman? He knows he would be hated forever by one of the top 3 biggest clubs in the world.
In Marca´s today printed edition they write about the telephone conversation of Florentino and Ramos. It is a sweetened article , like yesterday. They say that Ramos was disappointed and undervalued, what he reminded the president who had promised a renewal after Euro 2012. He reiterated several times to listen the offers. Florentino tried to lower the climate of tension reminding that he was his first Spanish signing and asking Ramos to be calm , making an appointment to talk in 10 days, when he has to go back. In another article on the same page they write that the club would raise the offer from 7 to 8.5 mill€ , accepting a contract to 2020 , but never the 10 mill €that he demands, mainly for revenue reasons. They say that strikers earn more since the club gets more money from them ( 40/50 % of advertising contracts is always for the club).In short, nothing really interesting
Cons 1 2 and 5 are positives for me. I want a total cnut in our team who gets under the oppositions nerves.
Successful football teams don't have a team full of good, likeable guys. Keane, Ronaldo, Cantona, G Neville from United's premier league dominance weren't the most likable and popular blokes, but I'm sure nobody is complaining about that when the success is flowing. Suarez is a prick, but he's done the business and I'm not complaining.
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He was pretty much strictly a right back up until 2011. These days he's primarily a centre back.
Ramos cuntinshness is more playacting, diving, elbowing and other such stupid stuff. That is very different from the "cnut" Keane was for United. Keane was a tough tackler, very determined and a leader; I don't see Ramos as a similar leader, not even for the defense.
The best attributes we'll be getting if we manage to sign him are his ability on the ball and him being a goal threat in the oppositon box. Some of things the Van Gaal seemingly prefers in defenders. Smalling and him won't be a throwback to Vidic and Rio in their prime.
Pepe and Carvalho were Madrid's main central defensive partnership for only one season (10/11). Carvalho got injured at the start of the 11/12 season and as a result, Ramos was moved to central defence and that has been his main position for Madrid and Spain ever since. Ramos played mainly as a right back up until the 11/12 season, with him filling in for injured players in central defence from time to time during most of those seasons prior (07/08-10/11). He was used as both a right back and centre back in the 05/06 and 06/07 seasons.
Much like Sir Alex, people need to move on from Rio-Vida. No 2 CBs in the world atm are as good.
You mean we should move on from wishing for two solid defenders?
All I was implying that we won't get the leadership or defensive stability by signing Ramos. Whenever I watched Madrid, defense was more often than not the weakest part of their game. Also, he is not a "cnut" in a Keane/Vidic mold; his cuntiness is more the Suarez type. (Minus the bitting or the racism)
He may suit a VG team and enhance our play in other ways, not by necessarily by making us defensively soild.
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We should move on from wanting any new signing to be as good as 2 of the best CBs the club has seen. You do them both a disservice by merely classifying them as solid defensively.
Ramos is a top defender, what makes him more desirable than someone like terry for instance(even though the later is better purely on defensive terms) is that he'd suit the style van Gaal wants to implement here which is very vital.
I'l ask you what I asked another poster, ignore his ability on the ball if you want, name the Defenders who consider better than him. You could bold the ones who are gettable.
I agree he's not a cnut in the keano mould btw. He's more of someone that winds people up, I've not got a problem with that.
Just to clarify, I am not totally againt signing him. If it happens, I just want us to do it for a reasonable fees and on decent wages. Also, I don't want us to get the short end of any deal that would involve De Gea.
It is not only the question of getting someone better right now, it is about getting someone who'd be good for us not just now but also in the long term. Another thing, if we are willing to pay equivalent of 65m Euros transfer fee and 55m Euros in wages, then a lot of them can be made available.
My personal preference would be someone younger - Varane or Laporte. I saw Otamendi only in a few games last season but combined with I have read, he could be an option.
Silva
Boateng
Terry
Chiellini
Godin
Benatia (The version before Bayern)
Pique
All of them are better defenders than him.
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Would pay the buyout clause that would need to be paid to prize him from Bilbao? I think it's now £42m
Wow! I thought it was 40m Euros. £42m is too much.
Also, now a Mendes pawn. I.e, will sooner or later dream of Madrid.
i second this and a proven winner too with World Cup and Champions League medals.
Why do you care so much about the wage or the fee? Don't you think people far more clued up about the club and the scenario around the deal will do what's required? It's not as if we'll willingly overpay just because we can. If it takes 5mil extra than what one might think is a good fee, I say get him. If it takes 20k a week more than what we want in wages, I say the same. There's jo point having this much money if we don't use It to get a player like Ramos. We fecked around with hazard's fee, look how that turned out.
The target for LVG is to win the title in the next 2yrs. We need players that will take us to the higher level immediately rather than a Laporte who's more for the future.
None of the Defenders in your list are gettable. That should tell you about the dearth of top CBs available.
Of that list, I think only Silva and Terry are better than him and Boateng is about equal. The rest are worse. That's not to say I don't think Ramos is a little overrated, just that the standard of central defenders is as low as it's been in my lifetime.
We didn't know how lucky we were with Rio and Vidic, or Stam before that, or Bruce and Pallister before that.
Benatia is not better than Ramos. And you had to list Terry twice because you couldn't think of many.
I was going to point that out too, Terry is so good he's listed twice?
Blinds already got 90% of that covered anyway.
Definitely there is a dearth of top class central defenders in the right age group. That is why my preference would be someone younger.
Why do we care about anything and discuss things on this forum? Why not leave it to the people who are far more clued about the club than we are?
No one survives without fiscal prudence too long, not even people with supposed unlimited pockets.
Hazard was a different case, he was younger and offered much more value. Ramos doesn't offer a lot of value at the figures mentioned.
It's not about VG's target, it is about what is good for United. The goal should be the long term future of the club, developing a team that lasts.
I don't agree. Godin, Chiellini and Pique are definitely better defenders than him.
Damn! You caught me. What I am gonna do now.....
Valdes, blind, Ramos
There's a calendar shot
There's a calendar shot
Yup, that list pretty much works FOR buying ramos.
How does someone younger help us when we want to improve the starting 11 now?
Wages and fees are unlike tactics players or team selection. It's pointless to speculate and have such conclusive opinions about something one has no clue about. To cite an example, saying Di Maria should start over young, or should play left, right or cm, whatever makes sense. You see him play, you see other players play, you're well informed to have an opinion. On the other hand, saying 60mil was definitely too much for him, we shouldn't have paid more than 50 etc is pointless as one knows nothing about what made us pay 60mil in the first place.
Rest assured that Ed Woodward is more concerned about the club's survival than you.
Again, talking so definitively about what fees and wages would represent value and what wouldn't is absolutely weird. Are you in on his demands? Are you in about Real's demands? In about what other CBs of his level we could get and what the demands from their club and his own wages are? Are you in on the roundabout figure MUFC are willing to spend in terms of fees and wages this summer? If the answer to all of this is No, how are you so sure about what we should or should not pay?
The last part is just bollocks. I know you don't like LVG but you should be sensible enough to know that he doesn't decide things unilaterally. He has been told to deliver the title in 3yrs,2yrs to go then. The targets are in line with that. We are targeting players for the now while obviously building for the future. That will always be the case at a club like ours. Targeting CL football every year isn't what we do.
Again though, you thinking you know better about what's good or not for the club than the likes of LVG or Woodward is just weird.
Did anyone mention he's 29?
Perfect age IMO. We are crying out for experience and you can't get much more top level experience than Ramos - and yet still a good few years left in him, as our young defenders learn and develop alongside a true winner.
Agree,people repeat it to no end like 29 is in fact 35,36..
AS say Real want €90m http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/06/26/primera/1435274168_007132.html
Instead of a firm no, this is speculated as showing an indication they will sell him
Instead of a firm no, this is speculated as showing an indication they will sell him
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