Day 2: Spain vs. Netherlands

[Amar__]

I don't agree with that perspective at all and we can see the sit back, soak up pressure and wait to counter is the new movement in football after possession based footy has dominated for so long. It's on Del Bosque, Barcelona etc. to adapt to the new defenses to their style of play but it isn't boring because of it but as a consequence of what defenses due to combat it

Spain have to be sharp, fluid and relentless. If they can get Costa or someone to score reliably then they will win the tournament but that's if they can put it all together again. I thought they showed the requisite desire of a champion at Euro 2012 when many were already bringing up the possession based footy is dead argument. I think they are ultimately going to get undone by more lethal attacking sides

I didn't say they are boring, I think you missunderstood me, I just don't think their opponents should be criticised for playing too defensive when Spain don't play attacking either, keeping possession high up the pitch isn't really enough to call Spain an attacking team.

I really fail to see how can someone blame Spain for that. It's all about their opponents - Spain plays with their defense set very high and if any team that dares to go at them, you will have the most exciting game.

Them suffocating the game is just the consequence of having to deal with defensive and opportunistic teams. It would be more fun if they took more risks, but why would they? They also have right not to be naive, and it's not them killing the game in first place.

Besides, even without end to end action, their technical excellence is joy to watch by itself.

Same as FCBarca, I think you missunderstood me. See my answer to him. ^^

 

[The Mitcher]

Sir Louis will win this one.

I wonder, with him being Dutch and also having a royal family, can he actually be a sir!

 

[Sammyjunn]

I would play Xavi and Alonso on CVM, Mata, Iniesta, Silva as CAM's behind Diego Costa. That would be deadly.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Boring football is the tip of the ice berg for me

the arrogance of players such as Xavi & Iniesta, and cnuts like Diego Costa who should be in the brazil squad and then Fabregas & Ramos plus a lot of there players come from the European football bullies Barcelona.

Don't agree with most of that but it's subjective so fair enough, but...Iniesta arrogant? Wow. Not sure how you could say that.

 

[Stocar]

Spain don't play attacking either, keeping possession high up the pitch isn't really enough to call Spain an attacking team.

Their default gameplan is extremely attacking. Pressing high up and attacking in numbers. If two Spains played against each other it would be fireworks, as there wouldnt be a team resigned to give up the ball ad sit back.

Look what happens in games when Real confronts 'boring tiki-taka' Barca openly. Brilliant end to end action and 4-5 goals. I expect Spain-Chile to be highly entertaining game.

Suffocating the life out of an ultra-defensive opposition is completely reasonable and legitimate. They are just less naive and solipsistic than Barca.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Sneijder is the man to watch for sure in the Dutch side. His 100th game for Holland and I believe there were some other factors that make it a special game for him.

Question is: will he be in the Ronaldo wannabe mode, shooting at goal from all distances playing just to show the world he still has quality, or will he set-up RVP and Robben?

Because Sneijder is an egomaniac with a tendency to be so dominant Van Persie almost has to play second fiddle to him, but Sneijder on a good day can be a very good team player too, so I really hope he will play for the Dutch team and not for Wesley Sneijder tonight. Then we have a fair chance to maybe scrape out a draw.

 

[The Mitcher]

Sneijder-man, Sneijder-man
Does whatever a Sneijder-man does
Will he join, Man United
No he won't, he's Sneijder-man
Lookout! Here comes the Sneijder-man!!!

 

[Amar__]

Their default gameplan is extremely attacking. Pressing high up and attacking in numbers. If two Spains played against each other it would be fireworks. Look what happens in games when Real confronts 'boring tiki-taka' Barca openly. Brilliant end to end action and 4-5 goals. I expect Spain-Chile to be highly entertainng game.

Suffocating the life out of an ultra-defensive opposition is completely reasonable and legitimate. They are just less naive and solipsistic than Barca.

Spain is bit different to Barcelona, Barcelona is much more attacking team. As for comparission with El Classico, Barcelona conceedes goals against Madrid even when Madrid plays ultra defensively, considering their defence is really too weak for a top team and in comparission with rest of their team in general, and Madrid conceedes goals from them too.

They don't attack in numbers, that's the thing, they dominate high up the pitch in possession but they hardly ever have any players in the box. They have extra players in midfield, but not up top, that's actually playing it more safe than attacking. Considering how much possession they have, their players still spend so little time in the box, they are just happy to pass it around without actually trying to be too direct or actually putting 2 or 3 players in the box and delivering them the ball.

 

[Stocar]

Spain is bit different to Barcelona, Barcelona is much more attacking team. As for comparission with El Classico, Barcelona conceedes goals against Madrid even when Madrid plays ultra defensively, considering their defence is really too weak for a top team and in comparission with rest of their team in general, and Madrid conceedes goals from them too.

They don't attack in numbers, that's the thing, they dominate high up the pitch in possession but they hardly ever have any players in the box. They have extra players in midfield, but not up top, that's actually playing it more safe than attacking. Considering how much possession they have, their players still spend so little time in the box, they are just happy to pass it around without actually trying to be too direct or actually putting 2 or 3 players in the box and delivering them the ball.

Fact they don't attack directly doesn't mean they are not attacking team. Their opponents usually do not attack at all for almost whole matches, by their own choice. Directly attacking strong and opportunistic opponent is, like I said, naive and solipsistic. That is Barca's downfall.

Again, how come Spain doesnt 'kill the game' on rare occasions their opposition is not set up extremely defensive (Chile on last WC, Italy at Euro final)?

 

[Nighteyes]

8/10 games involving Spain are very boring. It's a combination of them very good and playing football that ensures the other team has very little possession.

As a neutral, it's not very exciting.

 

[united_99]

I agree. IMO nothing justifies his choice. I don't fully agree with the Neymar part though. Fred played last night so Scolari would probably have chosen Diego Costa over him in a starting eleven. They could both easily co-exist and succeed.

Well, Costa said Del Bosque was the only national coach who called him, had dinner with him and made him feel important. He also said just a few days ago that he is and feels Brazilian and that this will never change. Plus he wants to win the WC with Spain, but if Spain don't win he wants Brazil to win it. I think he just wanted to play the WC in his own country and didn't trust Scolari enough that he would have picked him.

Scolari a few days ago said though that Costa would have been in his WC squad and that he is a great player who can play as a "9, 7 or 11". But that could be him saving face, you never know. I can understand Brazilians not agreeing with Costa's decision to play for Spain, but I can also understand Costa choosing Spain.

 

[Amar__]

Fact they don't attack directly doesn't mean they are not attacking team. Their opponents usually do not attack at all, by their own choice. Directly attacking strong and opportunistic opponent is, like I said, naive and solipsistic. That is Barca's downfall.

I'll repeat:

- why does Spain take the blame for their opponents cowardice and opportunism?
- how come Spain doesnt 'kill the game' on rare occasions their opposition is not set up extremely defensive (Chile on last WC, Italy at Euro final)?

Barca's downfall is down to many other things, not just that.
Re to 1. question: I have no idea, you should ask people who are blaming them for that because I am not one of them.
2nd: There were two goals in Euro final in 84 minutes until Italy lost one of their players due to injury and had to chase the game with 10 players, you can't really count that as great example, because we saw two goals in match between Spain vs Italy in the group stage too even though Italy played really defensive in that game.
Chile scored three times in the group, and conceeded just two goals in the group stage winning 1-0 against both Honduras and Switzerland, I don't think they were really that attacking.

 

[RobinLFC]

I'm not sure Holland will sit back and defend against them. Janmaat and Blind are two very offensive full-backs, if they stay in defence all the time, Holland has no chance at all to win this game. Their central defenders are not good enough to keep Spain from playing through the middle. I except some fluid attacks and a lot of chances from Spain, and some nasty fouls from De Jong as always Really looking forward to this game.

 

[Jean claude van hire]

An early Dutch goal will make for a more interesting game. However, as much as I like Holland I do fear for them tonight & predict 2/3 nil Spain.

 

[Chavo]

'Once' de España: Casillas; Azpilicueta, Ramos, Piqué, Jordi Alba; Xabi Alonso, Busquets, Xavi; Iniesta, Silva y Diego Costa.

 

[iBoss]

Score draw, Robben MOTM.

 

[Sixpence]

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[Stocar]

Chile scored three times in the group, and conceeded just two goals in the group stage winning 1-0 against both Honduras and Switzerland, I don't think they were really that attacking.

Chile is an insane, all-attacking team. Stats can be misguiding, and that's very small sample anyway.

 

[Berbaclass]

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There are 12 players there

 

[Amar__]

Chile is an insane, all-attacking team. Stats can be misguiding, and that's very small sample anyway.

I know they are attacking, altough I can't quite remember their game against Spain so I'll take your word, but still it wasn't a goal fest. Spain scored just two goals, and they played with 10 man for about 30 minutes.

 

[Nighteyes]

There are 12 players there

No.

 

[Sixpence]

There are 12 players there

Well there aren't but good point.

 

[Berbaclass]

No.

Read Xabi Alonso as two names

 

[bosnian_red]

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Having both Xabi Alonso and Busquets in there is overkill. Dissappointed that Del Bosque has gone for the old boys rather then give them some youthful energy in Koke. Here's hoping Netherlands get a win and encourage Del Bosque to shake things up because they are boring as feck these days.

 

[The Mitcher]

Having both Xabi Alonso and Busquets in there is overkill. Dissappointed that Del Bosque has gone for the old boys rather then give them some youthful energy in Koke. Here's hoping Netherlands get a win and encourage Del Bosque to shake things up because they are boring as feck these days.

Busquets is only 25. He's not old at all.

 

[bosnian_red]

Busquets is only 25. He's not old at all.

Mean like old guard as Xavi and Xabi Alonso and the ones from the last World Cup.. 4 central midfielders is unnecessary, especially if iniesta will play on the wing as a result.

 

[The Mitcher]

Mean like old guard as Xavi and Xabi Alonso and the ones from the last World Cup.. 4 central midfielders is unnecessary, especially if iniesta will play on the wing as a result.

I would not call Busquets old guard, Alonso and Xavi, yes.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Having both Xabi Alonso and Busquets in there is overkill. Dissappointed that Del Bosque has gone for the old boys rather then give them some youthful energy in Koke. Here's hoping Netherlands get a win and encourage Del Bosque to shake things up because they are boring as feck these days.

They're 'boring as feck' because of how the opponents approach them. Playing Koke instead of Alonso isn't going to suddenly create more space for them to play in because Holland would still sit back either way.

I don't like the double pivot either to be honest but at this stage it's hard to criticise del Bosque's decisions when he's won so much.

 

[Theon]

Having both Xabi Alonso and Busquets in there is overkill.

They always play like that. I agree with you it's too much, but then again it's served them well so far.

 

[ottosec]

Surprised that Koke can't get in that team after the season he had.

Dunno how the hell he can't get ahead of Xavi who's been sub par for 2-3 years now.

 

[bosnian_red]

They're 'boring as feck' because of how the opponents approach them. Playing Koke instead of Alonso isn't going to suddenly create more space for them to play in because Holland would still sit back either way.

I don't like the double pivot either to be honest but at this stage it's hard to criticise del Bosque's decisions when he's won so much.

It's definitely effective, but they could put a lot more effort in cutting through the opposition or taking more risks. They take almost no risks on the ball, which is why they always have the ball the entire game and it's obviously incredibly difficult to do, but as a neutral for their games it ruins the spectacle.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Xabi, Busquets, Xavi in midfield has no pace. No pace at all. They lack pace. So they aren't pacy. They did win a lot of international tournaments. Which is weird, because I learned on redcafe.net that a midfielder must have pace.

Diego Costa playing would be a bit of a surprise. Not too worried about that though, because Vlaar and BMI are killers more than they are intelligent footballers, so against a false nine a la Fabregas they would struggle more than against a big, strong striker imo.

 

[sammyvine]

Poor Mata

Silva is always picked ahead of him

 

[louvega]

Xavi should be on the bench, maybe Alonso for Martínez too.

 

[bosnian_red]

They always play like that. I agree with you it's too much, but then again it's served them well so far.

Yeah, ultimately their goal is to win games, doesn't matter how they win it. I for one wouldn't want united to play possession football to the extent Spain do, or bayern at the end of last season. It's just dull for me.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

It's definitely effective, but they could put a lot more effort in cutting through the opposition or taking more risks. They take almost no risks on the ball, which is why they always have the ball the entire game and it's obviously incredibly difficult to do, but as a neutral for their games it ruins the spectacle.

Yeah that's true, I've said similar myself - Spain use possession football as a defensive mechanism as much as anything else. If I was dropping Busquets/Alonso it would be for Pedro though, someone who can stretch the game, rather than a slightly more direct alternative in Koke.

Xabi, Busquets, Xavi in midfield has no pace. No pace at all. They lack pace. So they aren't pacy. They did win a lot of international tournaments. Which is weird, because I learned on redcafe.net that a midfielder must have pace.

Costa playing would be a surprise. Not too worried about that, because Vlaar and BMI are killers more than they are footballers, against a false nine a la Fabregas they would struggle more than against a big, strong striker imo.

Prepare to be surprised then

 

[bosnian_red]

Yeah that's true, I've said similar myself - Spain use possession football as a defensive mechanism as much as anything else. If I was dropping Busquets/Alonso it would be for Pedro though, someone who can stretch the game, rather than a slightly more direct alternative in Koke.



Prepare to be surprised then

Yeah I agree. To be fair I want koke in there just for his energy and directness which is in stark contract to the rest of the team, even ahead of Xavi after the last season. Never going to happen though. It would be best for Spain for Pedro to come in and add the pace and cutting edge as you say.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Yeah that's true, I've said similar myself - Spain use possession football as a defensive mechanism as much as anything else. If I was dropping Busquets/Alonso it would be for Pedro though, someone who can stretch the game, rather than a slightly more direct alternative in Koke.



Prepare to be surprised then

He'll probably score two monster goals But still, for us Holland it's better than having Fabregas or Silva to play there.

 

[Hannibal]

Xavi, Alonso, Busquets and Iniesta would always start for Spain - the other slots are up for grabs.

 

[Raul Madrid]

It's definitely effective, but they could put a lot more effort in cutting through the opposition or taking more risks. They take almost no risks on the ball, which is why they always have the ball the entire game and it's obviously incredibly difficult to do, but as a neutral for their games it ruins the spectacle.

True, but the teams putting ten men behind the ball against spain are not taking risks either.