I think it should go to Pimienta (Barca B manager). Not only is Pimienta doing incredible work already within the Barca ranks, but he's also got them playing quintessential Barca football. It's more likely that the next Guardiola for them will more like be this guy.
Xavi (Spanish Lego Pep) | Manager watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Yes, the team is carried by Suarez and Messi, I agree on that. However, I couldn't disagree more with the conclusions you make. It is a shame that such a talented squad has to be carried by those two players.
You claim Rakitic, Busquets, Alba and Vidal are finished. They are definitely playing like they are, true, but Busquets and Rakitic are 31, Vidal is 32 and Alba is 30. Meanwhile, 33 year old Modric won the Ballon D'Or playing in the exact same position as those guys do. And from those five, his style of play is most likely the most demanding speaking from a physical perspective. And those Barca players aren't just playing like seniors this season, they've already looked finished aged 28/29 as you yourself admitted regarding Busquets. So maybe they've just decreased quicker than anybody else in their position. Or maybe it is a matter of coaching?
However, even if you ignore those past-it players and factor out Messi, the team Valverde has at his disposal is absolutely elite. They just bought Griezmann and de Jong for not-so-small fortunes, Suarez scores like he wants, Arthur looked like Iniesta reincarnated last season. It's a shame that a team like that relies on Messi and Suarez to bail them out so heavily.
I also disagree that you can't fit those players into one squad. Yes, Griezmann is no left winger, but Messi is extremely versatile and can play as a false nine, second striker or playmaker. That would leave room for Griezmann on the right wing from where he could cut inside, having the ball on his strong foot. You could also play Messi as a 10 behind Suarez and Griezmann, like Sarri currently does with Cristiano, Dybala and Higuain. Just compare that to Pep, who sent Thierry fecking Henry to the left wing, played Fabregas as a false 10, turned Dani Alves into a player who covered RW and RB simultaneously and so forth.
Thing is, if you watch Valverde's Barca play it is painfully obvious that there's no identity, no shared game plan, no concept. They rely on individual quality so heavily. It's a collection of individual geniuses but together they are actually less than the sum of their parts. And that's down to Valverde. Under the right coach, this team would be lethal. And I'm not speaking of Guardiola or Klopp level of quality. Tuchel, Ten Haag, Sarri, etc. would already be enough to get much more out of them.
Yeah. i'm not arguing this
Because it's not easy. Because some of them simply make ZERO sense next to Messi and Suarez, and others were just wrong for the team's overall makeup. And still others are never fit...
Possible, though i seriously doubt that if he also tries to turn him into Iniesta
I mean, it seems to me that those guys are "great squad options" because barcelona signed them rather then because they are, y'know, actual great squad options...
He's getting the most out of Paulinho and Vidal because Paulinho and Vidal are complementary to Messi and Suarez. They're THE best midfielders you've had to play with Messi and Suarez
Which is why Messi and Suarez want Vidal to play every game and yes, it makes it baffling that he hasn't been a shoe-in starter for Valverde. That is one way he's messing up. Unsurprisingly Barcelona are MUCH better with Vidal on the pitch
I said 17/18, not january 17/18
Your strikers don't defend, but you want to press anyways so the midfielders end up doing it individually, which is a lot easier to beat, and then said midfielders lack the pace and dynamism to get back in defensive transition after they're beat which turns Bisquets into a traffic cone and leaves the defence in near-desperate situations again and again
One of the reasons why you are a lot better with Vidal is that he's an effective one man press machine and good in defensive transition. So unless you make gross individual mistakes like against Atletico, your press and defence become much much better, which in turn means you have more control over the game and Messi can win a game with 2-3 plays instead of needing 10
Because you don't have the pieces to play bold and beautiful winning football at CL level. If you try that against liverpool, you'd lose 12-3 on aggregate
Yep, this on the other hand has been a flaw of Valverde. Once again, right now your midfield should be Vidal+2. If you want to compete with the likes of Liverpool, that is
Both. The players still struggle accepting that the other team might be better and the usual playing style won't work. Valverde struggles to offer valid tactical alternatives
The board struggles to accept that it's not 2015 anymore
@giorno Please explain why those players don't "complement Messi"? Messi is actually a dream for every manager because you can play him at RW, CAM, F9, Second Striker without a drop in quality by any means. That makes it easy to work out line ups that allow his team mates to play in their favourite positions.
It's also bullshit that Vidal and Paulinho are the perfect partners for Messi since he had his inarguably best period at Barca with Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets playing behind him. And those players couldn't be more different to Vidal and Paulinho. In fact, de Jong, Arthur and Coutinho are MUCH closer to those players than Paulinho and Vidal ever were.
But Valverde is inable to utilize them in a manner that allows them to capitalize on their strengthes.
It's also bullshit that Vidal and Paulinho are the perfect partners for Messi since he had his inarguably best period at Barca with Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets playing behind him. And those players couldn't be more different to Vidal and Paulinho. In fact, de Jong, Arthur and Coutinho are MUCH closer to those players than Paulinho and Vidal ever were.
But Valverde is inable to utilize them in a manner that allows them to capitalize on their strengthes.
I seriously did not mean to, even though I replied to a post that quoted yours. I didn't have you in mind at all as I don't know you at all. I rather had the huge international Social Media and Barcaforum community in mind where it's painfully obvious that they can't even be older than 16 years old from the way they write.
Dembele only plays with the ball and is a very individualistic player, except on Messi's team, Messi tends to have the ball
Griezmann is something of a poor man's Messi, another guy who needs more of the ball and freedom to roam
Btw, I didn't say Messi. I said Messi and Suarez
Also Coutinho was actually fine before hitting a rough patch and the entirety of barcelona collectively lost its shit over the fact he's not Neymar and hounded him out
Valverde didn't help
Not sure if serious
No, it doesn't. You really don't understand football at all, do you?
Once again, Messi AND Suarez
Also Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets were Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets. De Jong, Arthur and Coutinho aren't anywhere near that. They're not even all that similar
Because they actually don't have the strengths Xavi and Iniesta had. And because he has to account for Suarez. And because he doesn't have Dani Alves. And a myriad other reasons that go beyond "Valverde doesn't know what he's doing". He does. He's just not quite good enough for them
while I don't rate Valverde at all, I think appointing Xavi in 2020. is completely different thing compared to Barca's situation when Pep took over. they have 20 players in their squad. currently, 7 or 8 of them are definite starters and almost always in their first 11, but all of them are between 31-33 and will need to be replaced soon. Ter Stegen, Griezmann, De Jong, Semedo and Lenglet are the only ones below 30 that play regularly.
so that's basically 12 or 13 players that are actually usable at the moment, the rest are either youngsters or have huge question marks over them;
1.) Neto, Roberto, Fati will all stay as they are good options from the bench. Umtiti is finished, but I think they'll keep him as they lack experienced covers at the back.
2.) Coutinho will probably leave, Vidal is apparently already negotiating with Inter but I'm not sure about Dembele and Arthur.
3.) Firpo, Wague and Todibo who's close to joining Milan.
fresh start under Xavi sounds great, but there are much more uncertainties within the squad than it was the case when Pep arrived. as bad as Valverde is, the core of the squad is simply too old to play any different, while their bench is full of kids.
it's not the fact they're tied with Madrid that is bad, but the fact that Madrid is slowly rebuilding AND keeping up with them. it's Madrid who sold their best player. it's Madrid who are coming after bad season and bad pre-season. yet, Barca still can't shake them off even at their current state. they can only get better next year, Zidane can already be considered experienced manager at this point and their fans can look forward to seeing some of their talented players and how much will they improve.
with Barca it's different as their future hasn't even started. they always had pretty 'flawed' squad, but Messi and the rest of the core were so good that it simply didn't matter. Xavi will now get that squad in their oldest and slowest state and I'm leaning more to the belief he will fail.
so that's basically 12 or 13 players that are actually usable at the moment, the rest are either youngsters or have huge question marks over them;
1.) Neto, Roberto, Fati will all stay as they are good options from the bench. Umtiti is finished, but I think they'll keep him as they lack experienced covers at the back.
2.) Coutinho will probably leave, Vidal is apparently already negotiating with Inter but I'm not sure about Dembele and Arthur.
3.) Firpo, Wague and Todibo who's close to joining Milan.
fresh start under Xavi sounds great, but there are much more uncertainties within the squad than it was the case when Pep arrived. as bad as Valverde is, the core of the squad is simply too old to play any different, while their bench is full of kids.
it's not the fact they're tied with Madrid that is bad, but the fact that Madrid is slowly rebuilding AND keeping up with them. it's Madrid who sold their best player. it's Madrid who are coming after bad season and bad pre-season. yet, Barca still can't shake them off even at their current state. they can only get better next year, Zidane can already be considered experienced manager at this point and their fans can look forward to seeing some of their talented players and how much will they improve.
with Barca it's different as their future hasn't even started. they always had pretty 'flawed' squad, but Messi and the rest of the core were so good that it simply didn't matter. Xavi will now get that squad in their oldest and slowest state and I'm leaning more to the belief he will fail.
Busquets is playing elite level football since age 19 for club and country. He was 20 in 2009 when he played the CL final against United and 21 when he won the World Cup in 2010 with Spain. Since then Barca have played extremely demanding and consistent football for 10 straight years, winning league title after league title.
Modric only really came into his own when? After Mourinho era around 2015 in his mid twenties and even then Madrid only really bothered to play elite level football in a few knockout rounds per year. Busquets is done not because of tactics, he had a horror show already dating back to the 1-5 against Netherlands in 2014.
Alba is extremely relient on his physicality (pace). Other than that he doesn't have much else in his locker. Running for Messi diagonals and outpacing opponents. Without that, he is an average leftback. Physically he looks on the decline. But as I said, maybe another coach can get 1 or 2 more seasons out of him, sure.
Vidal is just not a Barca player. He's a bench option and his best days are over. He is nowhere near the Juventus Vidal and even then he was never a passing midfielder suited for Barca.
That leaves Barca with De Jong who is okay but still too young and Arthur who is also a big talent but seems to waste it.
IMO you overrate the Barca squad. There are some big names there on paper but almost all of them will retire within the next 2 or 3 seasons and have won it all for years. A coach like Xavi might actually get a last hooray out of them for simply being who he is and everyone at the club buzzing because of it. But that's it. It's a club that will be carried by Messi and Suarez then fall of a cliff like United post Fergie. Maybe not quite as bad but you get the drift.
Seems he declined the offer to replace Valverde right away which makes sense but he could still take the team in summer or next one.
Newest links are them trying to get Poch or giving in to their B team manager for the rest of the season. Really strangely ran club.
Barcelona's squad can be overrated and Valverde can be an average manager.
Neither are mutually exclusive.
Neither are mutually exclusive.
Nah, not straight away anyway. Zidane walked into a team with world class players in their prime. Xavi would have to deal with a declining Messi, Suarez, Busquets, Pique and Alba to name a few.
Barca's managerial appointments have generally been woeful so I wouldn't be surprised if they get this wrong as well.
Targeting Poch makes perfect sense, he'd be an actual proven manager at the highest level which they hadn't had since Van Gaal. He was adamant that he would never coach Barcelona, but as they say, talk is cheap. Extend an offer and roll the dice.
Xavi isn’t ready yet. He’s hasn’t been brilliant as a manager over here.
Xavi has something extremely few people have: The immediate respect of the dressing room at Barca. They'll go to war for him.
Not sure that’s enough in management. He’s had the most stacked team in the country, one of the best in the region in terms of talent and hasn’t done as well as he should have.
Not saying he’d fail at Barca; but if we’re talking about “what has he done to prove himself”...not much.
It worked for Zidane
All he really knows is Barca and Spain. It's sometimes hard to translate what you know to a club that isn't at a similar level. Some parts of managing Barca will be easier because all he saw in his career was managers managing Barcelona.
The best players rarely make the best or even good managers. And managers/coaches are only as good as the quality of their players.
Barca doesn't have the quality of players currently that Xavi was around when he was a player. Their best players are aging and well past their peak. Also, is Xavi a short-term fix manager who is taking orders from the directors/Barca board or is he able to make his mark on the team along with the board?
They need to recruit a lot better talent according to how they want to play with a mix of young players and experienced players...with an eye on life without Messi, Suarez, and Pique. I can only see Neymar coming back to Barca and being their post-Messi savior along with 5 or so other talent players who can play together and support Neymar if that were to happen.
Barca doesn't have the quality of players currently that Xavi was around when he was a player. Their best players are aging and well past their peak. Also, is Xavi a short-term fix manager who is taking orders from the directors/Barca board or is he able to make his mark on the team along with the board?
They need to recruit a lot better talent according to how they want to play with a mix of young players and experienced players...with an eye on life without Messi, Suarez, and Pique. I can only see Neymar coming back to Barca and being their post-Messi savior along with 5 or so other talent players who can play together and support Neymar if that were to happen.
I always hated this prick. i remember the interviews he used to do every week about Fabregas and his obsession with "barca dna".
Agree with this, he knows the club inside out and the club has resources that his current employers can only dream of. Couple those two with his legendary status the squad will move through brick walls for him and fans would be more lenient.
If he is smart he'd hire an accomplished assistant to do the tactics and handle sessions. Zidane hasn't been a tactical revelation a la Guardiola or Klopp but his ability to command respect from a dressing room full of stars has him as one the most successful managers in the game today.
And the quality (or lack of) of the pitch. Never heard a player ramble on so much about grass length and quality.
Some of the current players were his team mates back in the days. I think is too soon.
More interested in seeing how blanc does, man hasn't coached in nearly five years
Let's see how it sounds for another guy a few months ago.
I think it should go to Quique Setien (Betis manager). Not only Quique Setien is doing incredible work already in Primera, but he's also got Betis playing quintenssential Cruyffesque possession based Barca football, unlike this donkey Valverde that makes Barca look like Athletic Barcelona. It's more likely that the next Guardiola for them will more like be this guy.
Sorry, I had to do it
I dont think i have ever heard Xavi admit that they deserved to lose, after a loss.
"Football lost today", "possession", "grass was too tall/short" and so on, maybe it wasnt always the case, but it certainly felt like it.
I actually think Setien sure was an improvement. Barca are a bit inconsistent under him but on the other hand, they've also had games during which they displayed great team attacking football not seen under Valverde. The last one against Alavez is a good example of that.
Not saying Setien should remain in charge but the football is more attractive and maybe they would get more consistent with more time.
Not saying Setien should remain in charge but the football is more attractive and maybe they would get more consistent with more time.
Basically,Barca need a Ole or better yet a Klopp.
Someone who will come in and just tidy the place up. May not be pretty at first and that individual may not bring instant success the new foundation will hopefully be built upon but ,again, that club needs to have a complete overhaul and a revaluation on their 'philosophy' .
I'm not sure Blanc should be that guy though. Seems like Barca are just papering over the cracks yet again.
It's inevitable Xavi will get the job in next 5 years. I assume he'll manage first somewhere else in europe as Luis Enrique did at Roma and Celta Vigo. Let's be honest though Barca aren't really a club that appoints managers who have vast european experience.
Rijkaard, Enrique, Pep, Martino, Setien all examples of this. Valverde was probably most qualified with all his years in europa league and odd one in champions league.
What is difference with Xavi coming in shortly is he dosen't have a 21 year old Messi to work with, indeed Messi might not even be there anymore when the time comes so vast difference.
Rijkaard, Enrique, Pep, Martino, Setien all examples of this. Valverde was probably most qualified with all his years in europa league and odd one in champions league.
What is difference with Xavi coming in shortly is he dosen't have a 21 year old Messi to work with, indeed Messi might not even be there anymore when the time comes so vast difference.
Still rubbish away against any decent top half team.
Wonder if he'll actually go to Fulham and bid 40m for Seri.
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/201...barcelona-transfer-target-jean-seri-barca-dna
The problem isn't that Xavi is inexperienced, but Barca fans should/could be worried about the inevitability of him becoming manager. Nobody seems to even question if he is a good pick.
Zidane didn't imminently rush into a job as manager. Only after he started to manage their second team, it was more or less clear that he'd get the job at some point. That was years after his retirement. One big benefit is, that he wasn't actively playing with any of the active players. They only knew him as exec/assistant coach. He also had time to try different things and to prepare. He was appointed in a crisis and expectations were somewhat tempered. Nobody knew how it would go and in a world where he would have failed, he would have been replaced soon without much trouble at the end of the season. He could have gone back to working for the club in as exec/representative.
At this point, short of murdering his players, Xavi is shoe in as manager and thats looming ever since he left Barca as player. He isn't a crisis-replacement, but apparently going to fix all problems on his own. He is very close to all the ageing players and the way he has to play football is more or less set in stone. Suarez, Busquets and Pique are not getting any younger and the next manager has to deal with them. Its just very hard for me to see how Xavi is able to make controversial/tough choices to refresh the team. Maybe I am totally misjudging his personality. Overall expectations are way too high. Additionally all of that sounds too much of an attempt to recreate a specific approach that worked in the past instead of bringing something new to the table. I don't mean that Barca should abandon their identity, but the next manager has to come up with his interpretation of this type of football, because the current team doesn't have Xavi, Iniesta and a young Messi in the squad.
I don't think his current managerial work tells us much one way or the other, but I'd be surprised if Xavi can be successful with all his baggage.
The board and Barca fans questioned Peps appointment, they thought it was suicide and he wasn't up to the job.
They were wrong.
The players want Xavi, the board want Xavi, the fans want Xavi, it's a match which will bring out the best in the young players they have.
It's Cruyff mk.3.
It will bring back the principles Pep evolved at Barca, it will bring back a more tactical outlook which I feel they have missed since pep left.
I'd rather have a Xavi rebuilding then an outsider who is new to the club personally.
I guess only time will tell.
So what has his managerial career been like so far? Playing style? Etc
Setien was a slight improvement in the period before the lockdown and then a massive downgrade post-lockdown
But the idea that barcelona didn't have great displays under Valverde is ridiculous. 3-0 at the bernabeu, first manager i've seen to outright outcoach Zidane, 4-2 at wembley against spurs, plenty more. Hell, even his last game in charge was probably the best attacking performance barcelona had against atletico madrid in years
As for Xavi, if they give him the job now the big question will be whether he has the strength to make big decisions or deal with certain expectations
The fact of the matter is Messi is about to turn 33. Time is running out, they can't go into a years long rebuild, they need to win now
Jijantes announced on October 3 that the chosen one was XAVI HERNANDEZ. It remains to finish tying a few fringes, but he is the one chosen after Koeman's dismissal. We are counting it in
Saw a little bit of footage of his current team, they're easy on the eye. But Barcelona is a juggernaut of a club, can he make the step up? It's a huge change in expectation.
I always thought he'd make a great manager one day, not just a genius on the pitch but so knowledgeable about the game off it too. Just like Pep.