But if he does win again against that financial behemoth he would immediately become a legendary figure. There is a lot to win for him and little to lose.
Xabi Alonso: Bayer Leverkusen manager
- Thread starter horsechoker
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Sure. And he has a number of options available to him that wouldn't represent a betrayal of the trust of the fanbase he is the current steward of. Choosing the one option that would actively work against the efforts of what he has been building at Leverkusen is not just moving on. It's switching sides. Of course it's a betrayal of his current work.
there’s a big difference between fancying a stint managing them one day and basing your career decisions around it.
That's how the Bundesliga has operated for years. Every other team has been subservient to Bayern, like it or not. That's why you've seen the likes of Hummels, Gotze and Lewandowski all leave their closest rivals to go and play for them.
Alonso used to play for Bayern and has done more than anyone could have reasonably expected him to for Leverkusen when appointed. I think calling it a betrayal is far stronger language than what the reality actually is, but fair play to him if he wants to stay on at Leverkusen and give it a crack.
Appeal to normalisation only amplifies the sad status quo of the bundesliga, it again does not justify it.
Taking a job that is the most direct possible way of undermining and working against the efforts of your current job, in a tribal culture like football, there is no other word for it than betrayal.
Less so perhaps as a player where you adopt responsibility only for your own performance on the pitch (though I still consider all the se moves dickhead moves), but certainly so as a manager where you adopt responsibility for the sporting fortunes of the whole club and become the primary spokesman and advocate of the club you work for.
It's basically saying he doesn't give two shits about Leverkusen and has no regard for the work he has done with them other than what it means for his cv.
Will you be asset stripped in the summer or can your higher ups resist stupid amounts of money for your players during the ultimate boom cycle?
Going to Bayern is pointless. Especially when you're just about to win the Bundesliga with a lesser club. He has to come to England or wait for Madrid.
Leverkusen don't really have a history of bending over for Bayern in the transfer market, at least not as much as Dortmund.
Leverkusen never relied on transfer income as they are part of Bayer. There are few reports about release clauses, so yes it would need a stupid amount of money to get most of their players.
In the end the question is, would they do something smart with the stupid amount?The answer likely is yes, considering how Rolfes built the squad during the last seasons.
After all this is not as much of an organically grown team that got to that level together over years (as Klopp's Dortmund mostly was), this is a team that was bought together to be successful. Grimaldo, Xhaka, Boniface, all have been signed just before this season and played crucial roles. For other players Rolfes already has bought potential successors before this season (like Kovar for Hradecky or Tella for Frimpong).
It's a much different situation than with Klopp's Dortmund I think.
Thanks.
So you reckon they're more likely to disband than stay together?
I always think of it as a great shame when these emerging sides turn to ether within a couple of transfer windows after doing anything of note. Of course, it can be a boon for the club coffers, but it pretty much also guarantees said club will never show true growth so I really hope they stick together at least until Xabi leaves.
You sure about that? Ballack, Ze Roberto, Lucio, Hans Butt etc
How many more wins until he's crown champ?
Kloop is similar to SAF. He made Liverpool a powerhouse again. Replacing him will be hard as any manager would immediately get compared to him, and I can see why a young manager would prefer to stay away. Next year expectations would be again for Liverpool to loosely challenge for the league, so the judgement will be hard for anyone. If Liverpool would have finished 6th this year, I think Alonso would be more open to the job.
Naggelsmann
Tuchel
De Zerbi
A-moron Amorim
Tuchel
De Zerbi
Why would Liverpool fit him best?
I'm pretty sure that all our key players (Wirtz, Xhaka, Grimaldo) will stay, though I'm not entirely sure on Grimaldo. Barca or Madrid could tempt him. Thing is, we have a policy that we allow every player who insists on leaving to leave. That way we don't need to put too many release clauses into their contracts. But there are few players whose departures would really hurt that I could see pushing for a move this summer. For Frimpong, we already have a replacement at hand performing well. Stanisic will leave and Tah or Tapsoba could leave, too, but right now, we that would still leave us with Kossounou and Hincapie, two incredible talents. Palacios is probably the most important player that could make the next step but so far it's been quiet around him as well. Would be the best for him, too.
"Bought together" is a bit of a hard phrasing. I wouldn't be surprised if the average time at the club for this squad is jigher than for Klopp's. Kossounou, Andrich, Adli and Hincapie are in their third season for us. Schick, Frimpong and Wirtz in their fourth. Tapsoba and Palacios in their fifth, Hradecky in his sixth and Tah in his nineth. Most of those players joined us as talents. It's rather a case of developing a very good team over years and than adding a few immediate improvements to it. Rolfes and Carro already mentioned a few times that it was planned the team peaked in this and the next season
That was 20 years ago, times have changed.
Him staying where he is is the second best case scenario.
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Unlike Madrid, Munich etc, the expectations of Liverpool are much lower. He'd probably get away with a bad season.
I know that but you also haven't had players on that level ever since who could walk straight into Bayern starting 11...
Alonso to Real in 2025 
And maybe take Wirtz to replace Kroos? Not sure if Wirtz can play that deep.
And maybe take Wirtz to replace Kroos? Not sure if Wirtz can play that deep.The only thing that changed in the last 20 years is that Leverkusen have been trash. Bayern didn't buy players from Leverkusen because they didn't have good enough players for Bayern to care about persuing.
Alonso to Real in 2025
Alonso plays with two AMs. But you could also move Bellingham back into the Palacios role which would fit him ideally
Strange situation, probably the fans of both clubs would be very happy if Madrid signs both Alonso and Wirtz in 2025
4D Chess by Alonso?
Let the next Liverpool manager fail so expectations are low then come in la
Let the next Liverpool manager fail so expectations are low then come in la
Not true. They eere after Vidal for example but also missed out on a couple of others like Havertz. Bayern can't just scavenge the top talent so easily anymore, they rather target the tier below that. The Sabitzers, Goretzkas, Laimers, Upamecanos, etc.
I assume some transfers will happen, but likely not a big amount. Tah allegedly wants to play in the PL for example, but others have just arrived or already confirmed to stay (Wirtz). So I guess Leverkusen will cash in on some players and replace them well.
Yes, but most of them did just one step up in their development when they came to Leverkusen and already were established top players (or quite close to that status). Obviously some developed a lot more like Wirtz, but that's not comparable to what happened under Klopp.
Dortmund were nearly bankrupt and therefore had to buy cheap talents and fully develop them at the time.
And that's not harsh but instead a compliment for Rolfes. He obviously knows how to spend money well on established players (or those who just have to do one more step to become that). Compare that to Dortmund's big money transfers which mostly have been disastrous and you see why I think that Leverkusen has a better chance to keep being on a high level even after the transfer window.
Most likely waiting for Real in 2025
Really good decision by Alonso in my opinion. How many coaches succesfully move on to the biggest jobs in the world with just a couple of years of top flight management under their belt? Makes a lot of sense to continue building his experience at Leverkusen.
Obviously waiting for the Chelsea job.
Liverpool didn't even want him anyway. One season wonder la
Indeed
As an EPL fans I am disappointed. It would be entertaining to see the tactical battle among Pep, Arteta and Alonso in premier league.
Is Arteta not a bit redundant in that comparison? In that he’s only going to copy what Pep does anyway.
It would be more interesting to see Amorin, Motta and Slot battle with Pep, Alonso and De Zerbi.
Which players are you referring to? Our line up features very few players who were established when they joined us, IMO. Frimpong, Palacios, Tapsoba, Tah, Hincapie, Kossounou, Boniface, Wirtz, Adli, Tella and Hlozek were at best established in second or third tier leagues and most of them not even that.
But yes, the transfers of established players were on point recently.
Good for him. I expect he’s massively enjoying himself right now.
Hm... I'll just go through the starting eleven against Freiburg and right now I am not sure if the result confirms me or proves me wrong...
Hradecky: Came as a DFB Cup winner. I don't see a significant difference between him at Frankfurt and Leverkusen
Tah: Arrived 8 (!) years ago. Made the step from being a promising youngster for Hamburg to an established top player in Leverkusen.
Hincapie: arrived as a young talent, improved a lot in a short time.
Stanisic: On loan from Bayern, was a pretty reliable backup for them and is the same for you/currently even a starter
Palacios: Was a very good player in Argentina, made the step up to the Bundesliga well
Xhaka: Was known as a top midfielder in the Bundesliga already a decade ago. Nothing about him changed when he arrived from Arsenal
Grimaldo: Really flourished, but he already was a top player in Portugal
Frimpong: Young player who developed a lot
Wirtz: just as Frimpong
Hlozek: not up to speed in the Bundesliga as he was before his transfer. Doing reasonably well but no impressive development as of now
Schick: Made a step up in performances after moving to Leverkusen
So it's definitely Wirtz, Frimpong and Hincapie I see as currently a lot improved players. I probably should also add Tah, I had completely forgotten that he went there so early in his career. A bit more then expected, but still less than Schmelzer, Hummels, Subotic, Großkreutz, Sahin, Bender, Pisczek, Götze, Lewandowski and Kagawa who I had in mind as a comparison.
The rest also developed well in Leverkusen (not surprising, otherwise they wouldn't be starting), but not to that level. And that "reasonable" development is more easily replicated with other players than the big development jumps and successes.
Has he bottled it?
Discuss
Discuss
Aren’t we all.
We'll all get a turn eventually.