Holy fecking shit, they are actually taking legal action. What an embarrassment!
WWC23 | England v Spain - Spain win the World Cup - and Rubiales gets sacked
- Thread starter jojojo
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He doesn't need to be sent to jail ffs, but he should resign and accept some legal consequence not so much just for the incident as the comedic handling of it. It's genuinely quite baffling 
Even assuming it was all a momentary harmless accidental thing, the obvious correct reaction is an unconditional apology. Although I guess that's basically the same thing as trying to manipulate everyone into thinking it wasn't your fault and threatening to sue the person you did it to.
Also somehow inevitable that men would ruin the women's world cup.
Even assuming it was all a momentary harmless accidental thing, the obvious correct reaction is an unconditional apology. Although I guess that's basically the same thing as trying to manipulate everyone into thinking it wasn't your fault and threatening to sue the person you did it to.
Also somehow inevitable that men would ruin the women's world cup.
Rubalies & his gang claims all evidence have not been seen and wants to present it in court as its the only forum to perhaps save Rubiales job and career. What did you expect? Rubalies suddenly admitting to having a low key crush on Hermoso and plotting a quick peck in front of worldwide rolling video cameras risking his reputation, freedom and job in the process?
Rubalies has lost it all, so I am not surprised he will go down fighting! He probably is used to getting it his way, so does not come across as someone who would just bow down to the opposing side and submit!All valid points.
But if Rubalies truly thinks he is innocent in the sense that the wild celebration was initiated by Hermoso lifting him up (which cant be seen in the footage) and that he believes it was a spontan euforic celebration and not intended sexual harassment - then Rubiales is right to have the viewpoint that people who think he should be sent to jail for sexual assault and should be fired are idiots. (that does not mean he is right, but his actions would have some kind of logic to it)
And again, If Rubiles truly believes he did nothing wrong, then it would make zero sense to apologize to the team, to the world and everyone around it as that would be admitting wrongdoing and signaling what he did was wrong.
I think Rubialies could be an asshat while the current incident might not been nearly as bad as many want to perceive it as. And thats what will be debated in court, this happening in isolation and his probable canning from the job because of it,.
I dont oppose him running the show in a dubious manner, perhaps that will also now will be investigated and brought into evidence. So in that sense Rubiales might have killed himself off properly by contesting this today
Serious accusations, needs serious scrutiny and from what it looks like that will be happening. If Rubiales is as rotten people make him out to be he will be cooked in court, which is also the proper place to decide guilt rather than social media and media mobs from both sides.
Not seen anyone credible ask for any criminal charges or talk about jail, the question here is only whether he should stay in his job or not
Again it's as much about the aftermath rather than the actual incident
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Yeah it's shocking how they whole thing has gone down. He should be resigning for grabbing her face and forceably kissing her regardless of what went on before, as far as I'm concerned. Lifting him up or not isn't an invitation to do that.
When you factor in all of the rest of it with them claiming she said it was consensual and putting pressure on her and her family to back him up, his position is completely untenable.
It wasn't just the kiss though, watching the video you could see he was too affectionate with the players and it's just not right. His response to this made it worse. He's no victim here.
Nobody survives the pile on, once it starts you have no chance.
The guy comes across as some kind of egomaniac and will get what he deserves.
The guy comes across as some kind of egomaniac and will get what he deserves.
From the mob I am seeing Rubalies being pretty much treated as a pervert and creep that likes to molest women. Of course this is the people that shout the most so they take it a step to far!
For me about the incident whats important is the intent, and for me there are 2 scenarios:
1. Rubiales explanation.
Scenario: Hermoso who is one of the longest standing spanish members approaches Rubiales and one could imagine that would be a very special moment. Hermoso is also a very emotional player. Rubiales is riled up already and if Hermoso did lift him up it might have triggered him to go full savage celebration mode (AKA YOU FINALLY GOT YOUR TITLE; WOW!!!!! F**** YEAH) and the peck being a part appreciation for a spanish legend in a wild emotional state rather than it being abuse.
2. The sexual assault accusation.
Scenario:
If Rubiales somehow got off sexually by doing what he did, sexual assault.
If there is anything true to option 2, then I think firing the guy instantly would be warranted and also black listing him for all time.
For me scenario 1 is most likely since I cant see Rubiales being such an animal to plot and sexually assault Hermoso in front of the whole wide world with the risks that could come with it.
In both scenarios Hermoso could have felt discomfort and disgust by the kiss, but in my world its a massive difference in how I perceive the seriousness of the incident!
If Rubiales deserves all that coming for him regardless, thats another topic that I have no or little knowledge about, hopefully the investigation will shed light on any shady business on his behalf leading up to this.
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All valid points.
But if Rubalies truly thinks he is innocent in the sense that the wild celebration was initiated by Hermoso lifting him up (which cant be seen in the footage) and that he believes it was a spontan euforic celebration and not intended sexual harassment - then Rubiales is right to have the viewpoint that people who think he should be sent to jail for sexual assault and should be fired are idiots. (that does not mean he is right, but his actions would have some kind of logic to it)
And again, If Rubiles truly believes he did nothing wrong, then it would make zero sense to apologize to the team, to the world and everyone around it as that would be admitting wrongdoing and signaling what he did was wrong.
I think Rubialies could be an asshat while the current incident might not been nearly as bad as many want to perceive it as. And thats what will be debated in court, this happening in isolation and his probable canning from the job because of it,.
I dont oppose him running the show in a dubious manner, perhaps that will also now will be investigated and brought into evidence. So in that sense Rubiales might have killed himself off properly by contesting this today
Serious accusations, needs serious scrutiny and from what it looks like that will be happening. If Rubiales is as rotten people make him out to be he will be cooked in court, which is also the proper place to decide guilt rather than social media and media mobs from both sides.
That's a strange logic, and this is why it's getting worse for him. The lack of self awareness to acknowledge that you have caused offense is the main problem here. And going on the offensive against the players shows how he's an absolute piece of shit.
None of this is of any interest to me, already ridiculous amount of overanalyzing of what is really a relatively simple situation in my opinion
Again no one credible is talking about anything criminal here, it just about his job - unless I missed it, i don't think even anyone in this thread has asked for jail time.
The going on the offensive against the player by The Spanish Football Federation was initiated once Hermosos statement contradicts pictures of the incident, alleging Hermoso has been lying. Pending investigation and the entire video footage from all angles without cuts being released I cant decide if Rubiales & his crew have doctored evidence or not, can you?
"The evidence is conclusive," it said. "Mr President has not lied."
In a statement by players' union Futpro, which is representing 33-year-old Hermoso, she is quoted as saying "in no case did I seek to raise (lift) the president" while they embraced on the podium.
The Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) said: "The RFEF and Mr President will demonstrate each of the lies that are spread either by someone on behalf of the player or, if applicable, by the player herself.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66626410?at_link_id=6181794A-43E4-11EE-A026-CDB6AD7C7D13
In most EU countries a forced or non-consensual kiss is consideres an assault to various degrees, depending on country and the circumstances of the incident. I don't know the laws of Spain but there is a chance it's more than just inappropriate, he might have broken the law. If so he shouldn't even be given the option to resign but should be removed from his position.
It is ironic seeing men ruin what should have been a great celebration of a tournament derided by... men
But not in the least bit surprising.
This is what Spanish women have had to put up with in the past. Im not surprised they are pushing back and good on them for doing so.
Thats exactly what courts of laws are doing, letting both sides present their evidence in detail and then coming to a rational fact based conclusion based on that. I´d rather have it that way than social media mobs acting out without even having seen the entire footage in question, I also disagree this is a simple situation, we´ll see if you are correct and its swiftly resolved.
I think its much better to consider all all options and watch the entire footage than watching a 5 second clip without all context. If you are not interesting in seeing the whole footage or knowing if Hermoso lied in her statement or not, then thats your right of course!
Well said.
@Lightbringer Why are you repeatedly referring to it as a peck? It seems like an attempt to downplay the nature of what went on.
It was definitely not a peck. He grabbed her head and forceably kissed her full on the lips.
It was definitely not a peck. He grabbed her head and forceably kissed her full on the lips.
Really, is there no limit to the idiocy positions of authority in football seems to foster? He could probably have defused the whole thing by apologising profusely to Morellas and everyone, say he shouldn't have done it but was just swept along by the emotion of the moment, that it was an unacceptable thing to do and he's sorry it detracted from Spanish women's football's greatest moment and it'll never happen again. But no, he goes to war instead, pretty much torching the landscape and succeeding only in demonstrating conclusively that he's an arrogant, entitled, lying prick with the judgment of a bucket of bricks and no regard whatsoever for the good of Spanish football. A week after the greatest triumph in the entire history of Spanish women's football, he's threatening to sue 75 players and delusionally arguing that he can force people to play for the national team. That says it all.
People seem to hellbent on downplaying serious accusations. Well, at least the ones women make.
I use the term peck as I think thats a much lighter kiss thats not necessarily has any sexual meaning and are far less sexual than a longer kiss with tongues which is a guaranteed way of showing romantic affection.
I am calling for serious investigations for serious accusations, when all facts are on the able, we are better equipped to make a judgement.
Dont you think we should wait to see the entire footage and determine whether Hermoso has deliberately lied in her statement? As of now her statement is in direct contrast with the latest evidence released.
Rubiales will still get whats coming for him when the investigation is done if he & the Spanish federation has altered/faked video or image footage.
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This whole thing makes Infantino and his "women need to pick the right fights" and "convince us men what we have to do" even more ignorant
My understanding is that the photo has been edited since it's nowhere to be found in the video.The going on the offensive against the player by The Spanish Football Federation was initiated once Hermosos statement contradicts pictures of the incident, alleging Hermoso has been lying. Pending investigation and the entire video footage from all angles without cuts being released I cant decide if Rubiales & his crew have doctored evidence or not, can you?
"The evidence is conclusive," it said. "Mr President has not lied."
In a statement by players' union Futpro, which is representing 33-year-old Hermoso, she is quoted as saying "in no case did I seek to raise (lift) the president" while they embraced on the podium.
The Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) said: "The RFEF and Mr President will demonstrate each of the lies that are spread either by someone on behalf of the player or, if applicable, by the player herself.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66626410?at_link_id=6181794A-43E4-11EE-A026-CDB6AD7C7D13
Then you have not read my previous post.
The video footage cuts out just when Rubiales had hugged the player before Hermoso and show a spanish player kissing the trophy.
So the build up to the Hermoso/Rubiales interaction - the 5 seconds clip we see is missing the start where Rubiales claims it was Hermoso that initiated their greeting by lifting Rubiales.
Check at 28:50:
https://footyfull.com/fifa-womens-world-cup/spain-vs-england-20-08-2023/
This is also the reason for Rubiales & the federation counter-attacking Hermoso after not saying anything bad about her at all for 5 days.
In a statement by players' union Futpro, which is representing 33-year-old Hermoso, she is quoted as saying "in no case did I seek to raise (lift) the president" while they embraced on the podium.
The Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) said: "The RFEF and Mr President will demonstrate each of the lies that are spread either by someone on behalf of the player or, if applicable, by the player herself.
It's the behaviour of a narcissist. There's a few of them in the news lately. This guy, Putin, Trump. Men who do as they please and then blame others for their own wrongdoings
Even if his stupid story is to be believed, does he ask the captain of the men’s team for a quick peck (which it wasn’t) if they’d won the World Cup?
And even if Hermano tried to pick him up, what’s that got to do with the kiss?
There is nothing at all excusable about his behaviour in pretty much any circumstance.
And even if Hermano tried to pick him up, what’s that got to do with the kiss?
There is nothing at all excusable about his behaviour in pretty much any circumstance.
Calling it "the peck" IS downplaying it. No matter how you try to justify it with your own completely made up kiss scale.
You go and "peck" a work colleague without their consent and see what happens to you.
Yup.
I am not denying I am downplaying it by calling it a the peck, I dont know why you think that.
If your read post #3730 on this very page, you can see what position I have on the incident in question. Downplaying it does not mean I think it was completely alright, I just dont think it was as bad as most people make it out to be and I do not think it had anything sexual to it, instead was a bad way of showing appreciation for what the longest serving spanish player had accomplished.
And you can also understand why the comparison of me pecking a colleague at work has not relevance unless we just won the world cup and were high on emotion and they engaged me by allegedly lifting me up, context matters.
By now, I don't even think it's about that anymore. The speech, the letter, the threat to sue 79 players, that's ample reason in itself that he should be booted out, whatever you think about the original incident.
You can keep twisting point all you like, but it doesn't change the simple fact that calling what he did "the peck" is downplaying his actions.
I'm not disagreeing with anything else, so you are wasting your time going on and on about it.
I am downplaying his actions because I dont think it was something which was meant to be nefarious, sexual or disrespectful about it, just the opposite.
He should not have done it regardless, but whether it was a genuine mistake or malicious matters alot on how bad I think it was and thats the proper punishment.
Gotcha, I have no problems with the stance you and most other are taking, I might also be wrong about Rubiales intentions, its just the way I call it from what I can see.
Hopefully the video footage whenever released will free Hermoso from the latest accusations about lying so we can put that to rest.
Cheers.
Well I don't think it will be swiftly resolved, but it should be and again I put pretty much all the fault on Rubiales for the aftermath
This whole thing is clearly part of a much bigger picture that already started preWorld Cup with players going on strike etc - this is the reason a relatively simple situation has been blown out of all proportion
It's now a battle for power within Spanish football with players Vs the federation
Yes, that is true. And I hope that if everything thats been rumoured is true house will be cleaned. If this can initiate a much wider probe into all the matters as gloves now are off anyway with no return, then the kiss could potentially lead to a revolution of the spanish federation, even if it was a shame it took away attention from the absolute brilliant victory for Spain.
Anyway, I voiced my opinion and will respect I am in the minority with my view! And take a break now and not rile things up further here in the thread, no offense meant to any of you guys :-)
And that's what I'm saying. Just like in the other thread, some of the downplaying of the accusations is just a depressing state of how people's minds work in situations like this and something experts and charities are desperately fighting against, but the tide is great because people think that's all ok.
And I'm not having a direct go at you on that point as if you are a bad guy, but the whole attitude to these things does need changing regardless of legal outcomes. It's not as if I even disagree on some or most of your points, just like with Greenwood I've never accused anyone of being guilty.
My stance is no matter what happens in these cases, who did what and why, language matters and we should never downplay the seriousness of these issues. Because somewhere out there are people who are suffering and they see things like this and the Greenwood case and some of the language used around it, and it holds them back from speaking up.
Well yeah I thought so. You're using it incorrectly and attempting to re-frame the conversation so as to remove any hint of sexual assault from the equation altogether.
A peck is a quick kiss usually only the cheek. This was not that at all. It was forced kiss but definitely not a peck. Whether it's considered sexual assault under the law I'm not sure but don't downplay it to the level of a peck on the cheek.
Are they saying that they haven't been able to get her to respond, but still standing by that statement they put out from her?
They also keep talking about court of law etc etc. Totally way off the mark here
The photo argument is such a bizarre defence.
Even if they show she lifted him, all she has to say is "Oh right, I didn't realise the hug had lifted him off the ground, what with me being caught up in the moment of winning a World Cup and all. But given that lifting someone in a hug isn't an invitation for them to kiss you, it makes absolutely zero difference".
Even if they show she lifted him, all she has to say is "Oh right, I didn't realise the hug had lifted him off the ground, what with me being caught up in the moment of winning a World Cup and all. But given that lifting someone in a hug isn't an invitation for them to kiss you, it makes absolutely zero difference".
So the federation is threatening to sue one of their players who just won them a World Cup, because she was sexually assulted.
What is the world we live in? I swear…
What is the world we live in? I swear…