How much are they worth? Worth declaring bankruptcy and starting over for this ?
WSB vs Wall Street / Gamestop Stock and others blown up by Subreddit
- Thread starter Kasper
- Start date
They just got sacrificed from Citadel, who probably would have been fecked as much as Melvin if this was continued to be allowed.
However, the coordinated attack is much bigger than that. I assume, we are talking for the very big players there (JPMorgan, Merril Lynch/BoA securities, Goldman Sach etc).
Robinhood is done for good, but I guess this was a good deal for the big guys.
Guys, conceptually why this is happening re: the retail platforms shutting off their users on these stocks, is because the platforms do not access the market directly. Robinhood is only really a thing in the 1st place because at some point market-makers like Citadel Securities thought it was worthwhile to pay them for the right to execute their order flows. That is what enables RH to turn around and offer no commission trades to their users.
I'm not sure on the funding side, but I don't think these platforms have much of a balance sheet either. Whatever leverage they extend users to buy on margin or short, they want to take that risk and shop it off to some other market-maker and/or bank. So the whole game is accessed through and funded by the MMs and banks. If those MMs and banks shut off their access to either execution or leverage, they have to shut off their users.
In a sense people are trying to feck the market with the tools that the big institutions handed them, only to find that those tools can be pulled back at any point. Sure, you can say the game is rigged.... but if you were paying attention instead of just posting rocket emojis, you would've known that before going in.
I'm not sure on the funding side, but I don't think these platforms have much of a balance sheet either. Whatever leverage they extend users to buy on margin or short, they want to take that risk and shop it off to some other market-maker and/or bank. So the whole game is accessed through and funded by the MMs and banks. If those MMs and banks shut off their access to either execution or leverage, they have to shut off their users.
In a sense people are trying to feck the market with the tools that the big institutions handed them, only to find that those tools can be pulled back at any point. Sure, you can say the game is rigged.... but if you were paying attention instead of just posting rocket emojis, you would've known that before going in.
But the hedge fund guys will be fine, won't they? They're millionaires with ivy league degrees and will prolly be able to set up shop somewhere else in a week. Whereas someone who invested their retirement savings near the peak get fecking screwed. Not saying they don't have the right to try, mind you.
So is this the beginning or the end? As in is every wide open position going to be blitzed like this from now on?
If someone invested their retirement savings in this frenzy, they probably deserve to be "screwed". Have some common sense - just because people are trading turds at high prices doesnt mean they aren't still turds.
Also just to be clear - the money lost by hedge funds isn't necessarily some billionaires money. They could have clients that have given them money on behalf of pension savings of a middle class family. I don't know what this hedge fund in particular does but the whole rhetoric of screwing the rich people isnt necessarily true.
'We're thieves protected by the state. The fact you know this makes it okay.'.
Just had a very strange movement up to 430 and back in minutes.
Saw that. Went from 232 to 431 in 5 min. 10 min later went back down to 237. Madness.
Same for AMC. Went over $20 for a few moments to only drop back to $9.
They do though. If you register with these platforms as a qualified professional you have access to a whole different set of features. As a standard retail investor they have controls to stop you taking excessive risk, one of which is preventing you making some types of trades.
Meanwhile on memesphere...
Thoughts on the stocks? Lost a bit today as I bought some AMC yesterday. I’m hoping one last surge before close. Don’t want the stock for opening tomorrow.
Most dont have any balance sheet to speak of. They hold funds in segregated accounts with banks and use a portion of their balance sheet instead, and access the market through one or two liquidity providers at most, who are sometimes brokers reselling liquidity and not actual market makers. They have agreements with them for the depth of liquidity available to them and they're not going to be paying to have massive order books available if they dont need it. Once theyve used it all theyre at the mercy of the market maker to provide more at whatever spread they fancy.
You haven't lost anything until you sell. Right now the price is artificial, nobody is actually selling their positions it's just the same funds swapping stocks between each other for low prices trying to make it look like something it isn't and force people to panic sell. I don't know about AMC but the GME options still expire tomorrow, and at that point they have to buy at the holders rates and not the rates they're trying to artificially create.
So do you think GME my go up tomorrow on expiry?
It has to. Unless everybody panic sells today which looking at the volume isn't happening right now, then they're mandated to buy shares tomorrow and nobody is selling at the prices they're trying to pump it down to. Their only option is to buy it at the prices that the sellers list for.
"It's our ball and we don't have to let you play with us!"
Thanks for the insight.
I think whatever happens 'twas probably worth it just for the jokes & memes
I think whatever happens 'twas probably worth it just for the jokes & memes
They should just skip the avocado toast.
In case @Andy_Cole is thinking of investing based on that, its worth saying that you could be totally wrong with this. We dont know who owns either side of those calls right now.
The more I am reading about this, the funnier it gets.
Haha yeh I know it’s a complete gamble! I ideally want to get out today in the next hour.
Robin Hood's money wasn't coming from commissions they made on letting average Joes trade on their platform, their real money comes from the data they collect on a volume of trades that they further sell to the bigger funds.
Who owns the calls isn't really relevant because they expire regardless. Also it should go without saying that nobody should yolo into investments because of anything that anybody says on the internet.
Wow.
Famous liar lies. More at ten.
Her response was pretty good.
Robinhood: My execution provider told me they wouldn't take more orders in those names, ask them.
Citadel: Something, something volatility.... something, something systems problems.
Surely it's not normal for a hedge fund to also be a market maker? Are they supposed to be fully segregated businesses?
Imagine if there's truth to this
I'm in a group chat with some hard-left people (the type who called Bernie an imperialist social fascist etc). Anyway, two of them have jobs involving stock market shit and have an attitude very similar to the@MTF post you responded to. Class solidarity!
They're not the same entity, just owned by the same person (Ken Griffin). Its Citadel Advisors (investing) and Citadel Securities (market-making).
Like.... yeah, its not good. I always believed in a model of decentralization of financial services. But people keep finding that there's just too much synergy in bundling all these businesses together and hence you have investment banks and other firms that do multiple verticals. Chinese walls are generally taken seriously, but I don't think you're able to chinese wall the brain of a person that oversees both.
Does anyone know if MMs are allowed to buy shares today on the lows to pre-emptively cover their call positions, therefore avoiding the expected consequences of Friday's gamma squeeze?
I imagine its just the feeling everyone would feel if suddenly what they do was under the spotlight and anyone on reddit or twitter now thinks they're an expert on the subject.It gets tiring. I feel a bit as if I was just sitting in a quiet office doing my work, and then starting Monday an unruly mob has broken in and is making a hell of a ruckus. Part of it is funny, and they're not threatening me with any harm except a knock here or there, but at this point I'm just a bit tired and wish everyone could go away because I have work to do.