People keep mentioning Ten Hag as a long term option. How do you know ? just out of curiosity. Let's say he does come in perform well and win the league within 3 seasons (even though he's never managed a top 5 league club never mind won a league title). What's there to say he won't leave if Madrid/Barca come calling ? Do you lot know his personal plans ?
Would you take Ten Hag at United?
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I think Barcelona will appoint Xavi next season. Can't see him picking Newcastle over United.
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I've given you two scenarios and tell me how either one would fail. Ronaldo can easily be used as the non marking player closest to the opposing CB. Not all 10 players need to man mark.If you believe 37 year old Ronaldo will suddenly start defending using "man marking ploys", and strikers like Vardy wont exploit Maguire in a highline regardless of who's next to him, I dont know what to tell you
Van Dijk and Varane have both countless times covered both sides in a high defensive line. Van Dijk did it it against Wolves away (a few seasons back) where he covered his own defensive zones against Adama Traore and covered his partners defensive zones comfortably. And he could do that comfortably due to Liverpool playing a high line in a compact block.
Sigh.
Ole is on £10million I believe, which is daylight robbery for a manager of his reputation and ability. We should easily be able to match that, if not better it.
Pretty sure he would join us for less.
This was what Andre Villas Boas achieved directly before he failed at Chelsea:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/André_Villas-Boas
Beware the managerial wunderkind.
Ajax have a defined identity starting from the academy and going all the way up to the first team. The manager undoubtedly deserves credit for moulding them into a cohesive unit. But how much of that is down to the foundations already at the club? And how much is translatable to the United dressing room full of massive egos and an existing style of play that's totally unlike Ajax's?
This would be a massive risk for United. Slightly less so for Newcastle. But either way, he's not worth a bidding war against an oil state until he proves himself.
You could have made the same argument for Klopp - who had only managed in Germany and only won domestic honours there.
The point is its always going to be a punt, but one we should be making at this point IMO.
You could. And at the time, Liverpool were a project that could afford time. Just like United were a project that could afford time when Ole came here in 2018 after only winning domestic honours in Norway.
The difference for United between then and now is that we're no longer a project that can allow somebody to potentially take a few seasons to bring the squad up to his speed.
Maybe ETH is going to be the next SAF. I don't know. But Europe is full of other promising managers, with new generations cropping up every season. We don't have the luxury of giving every single one a chance. In our current state, the best choice is to appoint somebody with a proven track record managing Galactico level players in one of the big leagues. Yes, there's an opportunity cost. But that applies to everything in football.
Ten Hag might have been a worthwhile gamble back when the club had no direction and no hope - but that's what the Ole experiment was about when he took the reins after Jose. Right now, however, it's time to move on from gambles. Our hand is already stacked with big cards and we need somebody with experience of winning big-money pots.
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It’s fantasy. Like when people say, “if we buy this young player, his position will be set for the next 10 years”. In reality, that almost never pans out. Injuries, loss of form, players wanting to leave, changes in formation, and all sorts of things usually derail the plan.
Completely agreed.
Taking all this into account that only leaves the club with Zidane or Conte. I actually think Ten Hag works because he stands for everything Solskjaer has miserably failed in which is the fundamental reason why the season has been so poor.
He has a clear philosophy, his team have a structure and identity and you can see the influence of coaching in the way Ajax play. He integrates players into his system seamlessly the likes of Haller / VDB totally different players compared to their experiences under the leadership of other managers. He's also won trophies which is a plus. Bayern having such a strong interest at one particular point gives more assurances because the club is shrewd in the hierarchy.
I think one of the biggest issues with many looking for a new manager is that they overestimate how good Solskjaer is. I think it's very high possibility that a new manager would absolutely fly given the team United have at present. Yes the midfield is weak but that's only identified because of how they performed under Ole. We have seen Klopp get to a UCL final with Henderson, Wjnaldum and Milner in the midfield. The strategy for the next manager should be identifiable with who improves the team most. There's a DOF now who has earmarked the identity the club entails for the future.
United don't need to look for the next SAF they need a manager who can tick a few boxes moving forward.
I think you and quite a few others are overrating what our current squad is capable of. The stark reality is I don't think any manager is winning anything substantial with this squad as it is. Not Conte, Zidane....heck I don't think Klopp/Pep/Tuchel wins the league with this team. We might grab the odd FA cup, but I don't see this squad pipping Liverpool/Chelsea/City. So the way I see it we should for once resist the temptation of yet another short term fix (which wouldn't even guarantee us short term success), and opt for a more sustainable appointment. One where we can look to build a style of play we consistently improve, while obliging the tenets of promoting youth. I think Ten Hag is a good fit for that.
Yeah of course Ten Haag could fail like AVB. I don't want Ten Haag cuz he won the Eridivise. I want him because of the style of play he has coached his Ajax team, and rebuilt it successfully with new players and able to get them to play just as well as his first team.
I want a coach who can get us to press and play good pass and move attacking football.
We have 3 CB’s.
We have Shaw & Dalot. Shaw just played that exact position on the way to the Euro finals.
We have Ronaldo and Cavani, we have a few number 10’s.
I don’t think either manager would struggle to make a side to suit him with this squad, it’s extremely versatile.
What exactly are our standards though. We took Ole from Norwegian league and he had already "proven" himself in the PL.
I think this is a fair point. Also without even taking into account that some managers are simply much better at implementing a style at a club where there are few huge egos, and they’re allowed to mould a young team under slightly lower expectations rather than marshal a huge highly paid group of superstars into a multi-competition juggernaught… Poch is currently showing that the two are often very different things. Lots of people didn’t even think Klopp could necessarily make the transition (though Liverpool didn’t have many superstars then, which probably helped him in fairness)
Everyone like that is ultimately a risk. But the question is likely always going to come down to “Risky new wunderkind, or a famous but controversial Conte-like figure” from now on, for the foreseeable future… We’ve been shielded from it for so long, but it’s the reality. The most successful managerial strategy in England over the last 20 years has been Chelsea’s “hire the best person around and sack them the second it stops working” and if we don’t want that… we’re gonna have to take a punt on a young but impressive looking up and comer who probably hasn’t worked at our level yet (though ideally has at least managed in a proper league, or the CL!)
I think we’re probably destined to have this kind of debate quite a few times over the next few decades. Because no one is staying here for 26 years again.
I think the Ajax influence is overstated. Yes they make good signings and have a good academy but pre Ten Haag no one was able to build that into a huge success. And to Ten Haag's credit, he did it twice - once with the CL SF team with De Ligt, Frenkie etc. and again now taking a bunch of PL mid table rejects like Haller, Tadic etc. and moulding them into a team that can beat Dortmund in the CL.
If anything I think he'll do very well here because we don't have a competent DoF whose views will clash with the coach's. More often than not we just give the coach who they want.
AvB is a good shout but I'd argue his Porto side were also extremely talented (Falcao, Hulk, James Rodriguez, Moutinho, Otamendi etc.) and Ajax aren't anywhere close to that talent wise. Disagree that there's an abundance of young talented coaches in Europe, they get snapped up very quickly (Klopp, Nagelsmann, Rose etc. are case in point). Ones with achievement like Ten Haag are a pretty rare commodity.
Ultimately, yes, it's risky, but it's a risk very much worth taking.
I dont want us to turn into the next Arsenal, with posters focusing more on pretty football, than getting in a manager who knows how to win. I'll take a Conte over a bottler who plays pretty football like Rodgers anyday. Getting Ten Hag on the justification that he plays nice looking football is a big red flag.
Also I think many are underrating the ability of this squad. Ole is not even getting 20% of the best of this squad's ability, the same happened with Chelsea last year. But Tuchel came in and suddenly people realised how good their squad really was. We are playing as individuals, and if we play as a team, I belief this team can win trophies.
Also I think many are underrating the ability of this squad. Ole is not even getting 20% of the best of this squad's ability, the same happened with Chelsea last year. But Tuchel came in and suddenly people realised how good their squad really was. We are playing as individuals, and if we play as a team, I belief this team can win trophies.
You make it sound like it’s a binary choice between winning or playing attractive football - why not both? Ten Hag has also won titles and has done much better in Europe than Conte.
How much??? No wonder he doesn't want to resign - he will go kicking and screaming.....
Perfectly put. I don't think an explanation is needed after this. Ten Hag is a major risk , more than Conte. We can't gamble at this point of time. How many big clubs actually takes a gamble with a manager ? Except Bayern (because they have a free domestic season always ), no other clubs take this sort of risk. We have the GOAT, Pogba ,Bruno and Varane. Just come in and have someone fix the puzzle. Someone who knows what he is doing.
Not another gamble or a new manager who has no experience in managing big clubs.
Its absolutely not a binary choice, 100% agreed. However my point was that's what I've seen people put more focus on and that seems weird to me as United fan. I dont want a boring manager either no matter how much they win. That's why I dont want someone like Simeone. But if I had to choose between winning and pretty football...Conte's football is not anti football like Mourinho's either tbf.
As for both, the only manager I can think of right now who plays nice football and is a huge winner and would come to United is Enrique. And he is unavailable. Ten Hag has had a decent CL run, but he's very inexperienced. His next destination should be a club like Everton, Tottenham etc. Going directly from Ajax to United is a huge risk, considering the state of our squad, which is primed for success. If this was back in 2018 I would have had less qualms about it. I would take him for 2-3 years, before we get a manager like Ten Hag for the next rebuild.
If you are comparing Ten Hag and Conte in terms of their winning ability, sorry, but I cant take that seriously.
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I think at this point you could do worse than either Conte or Ten Haag. As long as they don't do something totally brain dead like getting a caretaker manager in and miss out on both appointments in the summer, I'll be fine.
It looks like Ten Haag is destined for greater things. Pretty sure Barca / Newcastle will get him if we don't go in early. Conte is Conte, I'm sure some top side in Europe will take him.
I'd argue Conte is a bigger risk than Ten Hag. People are acting like Conte Is a guaranteed success when it's very possible he fails here. And if that happens I'm sure we'd be going back to hearing terms like cultural reset and 'there's no quick fix'. This is one reason why I'm in favour of Ten Hag over Conte. I think the consequences of Conte failing is bigger than that of Ten Hag failing and the reward we get from Ten Hag succeeding is bigger than Conte's
We are at the hope stage man.
The ideal candidate would be Nagelsmann, but he's never leaving Bayern at this stage. I'd still try Poch at the end of the season, he can't be enjoying coaching the circus that is PSG. If we can't get Poch, then I'm all aboard the ETH train. We need a coach that can get us playing a modern, attractive style of football. My only concern with him is that he's never managed a team on the level of Manchester United. Other posters have commented on how he lacks charisma & personality, which may derail him as a Manchester United manager. In addition, if he lacks presence or the necessary charisma, will he be able to convince a dressing room full of big stars and egos to follow his way. I have my doubts on that but happy to be proven wrong
The reason I brought up Tuchel isn't because of attacking football, but because he has a lot of paralels that you're using to diminish Ten Hag. I'm fairly certain that if it was Tuchel linked with us instead of Ten Hag, you'd been parroting the same lines. You'd probably use his PSG stint as proof that he can't manage egos as well.
Prior to Chelsea he managed Mainz, Dortmund and PSG where he didn't achieve the expectations set before him. He was still handed the big job at Chelsea based on his tactical know how and look how that turned out.
Ajax is well run for the same reason Liverpool seems well run, because of the manager. Prior to Klopp, Liverpool was a laughing stock. Prior to Ten Hag, Ajax we the Spurs of the Netherlands, always competing but eventually coming up short. A good manager will make any team seem better run than it is. Both on the pitch and off it.
The same way detectives solve murders. You look at the clues to point you to the right direction. So let's look at the clues:
- He likes to build teams from scratch
- He integrates the youth
- He is good at rebuilding his own team
- He doesn't just jump ship when a better job is available(i.e. Spurs, he's also been pretty cool with the Newcastle links)
- It's already his 3rd+ season at Ajax
- Every time there is speculation about the future, he immediately shuts it down, reiterates that an exceptional offer has to be made
Now compare that to the behaviour of a Conte or a Mourinho and you'll get your own answer. Also I didn't say he was going to be the next Sir Alex. Long term these days is 5+ years, not 20.
If Ole with his positive drivel can keep this lot together, I think Ten Hag will do just fine. The Dutch media says he doesn't have charisma because they have a culture where the manager has to be a nutter or contrarian to be considered charismatic. I.E. Van Gaal or someone like Blind(the manager)
Here's a press conference and make a judgement for yourself:
Personally, the way he talks reminds me of Wenger for some reason.
A sign of Ten Hag's quality, every player that's left Ajax has had periods of struggle to adapt, to me this suggest he installed a system and they have since to adapt elsewhere.
I'd love him to do the same at United. Easily my favourite likely target.
I'd love him to do the same at United. Easily my favourite likely target.
So apparently the board thinks Ten Hag is like Moyes. Not sure if this is a briefing or not, but this is what Ogden alludes to.
God help us if this is actually the case.
Ogden has been mostly miss when it comes to United. Mitten is more reliable. So i would not pay too much attention to this
Meh, I prefer Conte over Hag, but Hag is nothing like Moyes. Hag is an attacking manager that has won trophies. Moyes sat 10 years at Everton, doing the same dour tactics which ultimately resulted in nothing. Just stability. He's got West Ham doing the same thing, but ultimately - that is his level.
Just saw in another thread how Ten Hag would be likely over Arteta at Barcelona clearly, came here to post my gut says Ten Hag is Barca bound to see what you said. Makes complete sense for them where they are to have him rebuild that team and structure
I like Ten Hag, but I think this oversells him. Ajax have won 8 titles in the 2000s - there is nothing Spurs about that. They've had a few periods of several years without a title, but it has to be kept in mind that PSV are also a big club in the Netherlands; it's not like current Bayern in Germany and Ajax can't just keep winning.
Other factors to consider are that Ajax went through a philosophical discussion with a lot of infighting which didn't help, and that they decided a few years ago to open up their wage structure so they could attract and retain bigger names (in their case e.g. Haller, Tadic, and Blind). Ten Hag didn't play a role in either process, but he does benefit from the current situation that results from them.
Nutters and contrarians are considered amusing in the Netherlands, not charismatic or better. Van Gaal for example wouldn't get away with his attitude if he didn't also have good arguments and successes to back it up. Ten Hag is simply considered uncharismatic because he displays zero rhetorical skills in his public appearances. As I've said before, that clearly doesn't stop him from being a good coach and having a good relationship with his players; and he also doesn't mess up interviews. (I.e., it's not a question of nerves or pressure, public speaking is just not his forte.) So I don't think it matters; but he clearly does not have a charismatic public persona.
Up until SAF retired Ajax had 5 titles since 2000 to United's 7 . De Boer won them 4 on the trot, but after that they turned into Spurs. Always lingering, finishing 2nd or 3rd, but never crossing the line. Ten Hag changed that. Not only are they dominating domestically(he did the Double Double), but he's very tactically astute in Europe.
What sells him for me is his mentality and his European record. He is the manager version of Haaland. Being stuck in small team, but you can see that there is more to him thanks to his very impressive European record, the way he sets his teams up, the expectations he has for his players. He's a winner.
We could have argued that his 2018-2019 run was fluke similar to Jardim's or Villas Boas, but considering he's taking Europe by storm again this year it's safe to say the man knows what he's doing.
That's not what I meant when talking about the other side of success. What I meant is as long your team is winning, nobody cares about your club's deficiencies. Just look at our club. SAF's genius masked our complete decline behind the scenes. We are only slowly realizing the degree to which our club has been neglected 8 years later.
Klopp is doing the exact same thing. Because they are winning nobody cares that they are hemorraging key players or that there is criminal underinvestment in the squad. If you ask me, Liverpool is closer to Arsenal post Wenger(also another good example of how a manager can paper over the cracks) than we are.
Edit: that's why Ajax have this impression that they are in farmer's league. Because Ten Hag turned them from potential challengers to consistent champions. That's what a great manager does. He makes the team he manages dominate to such an extent that all the casuals think it's farmer's league.
Let's hope Barca don't wrap this up quickly.
Has mitten said we like ten hag?
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