Would you take Ten Hag at United?

Would you take Ten Hag at United?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1,547 92.3%

  • No

    Votes: 129 7.7%
  • Total voters
    1,676
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OmarUnited4ever said:
According to De Telegraaf , when Spurs interviewed ETH in the summer and asked him who he would bring, he said he would bring only one person, we don't know who he would bring with if he comes here.



So far, only Phelan was renewed, if Ole goes he goes too. As for Carrick & McKenna, they are yet to renew, Ramsey is young and probably not on big money so he can be let go without any issues, as for the bolded part, except for Phelan the other 3 don't have quarter the experience of ETH so I bet they would be happy with any role they are assigned, and I think they would be ok if they worked under some who has solid experience like ETH, not saying ETH is as good as Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, or even Poch, he still has to prove himself.



You are 100% right, and I think (or more likely hope) that people like Murtough, Bout, Lawler, and other experienced football people can work together with ETH, that is the purpose of a structure in football club, which is to provide support to the head coach in various aspects, but a football structure can't coach a football team to win football matches, that's the head coach's job and that is what we need now.



We have to start somewhere, and we did in 2020 when a football structure was set up then, and yes it's a new structure, but it's one that has clear roles and responsibilities, we can't just take Ajax's CEO, DoF and Head Coach, but what the club can do is have a proper structure in place, just like City & Liverpool did before they got Pep & Klopp, and again I must stress that I don't think ETH is our Pep or Klopp (he could be but we don't know that yet), but what's obvious is we don't have a competent head coach, and that needs to change.
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I don't have much I disagree with in your post except... the belief and optimism (read faith) you have in us being able to see such things through succinctly without [outside] assistance, or more specifically, with the football people being left to develop the footballing side of things how they see fit, which is where I mention impedance, particularly when push comes to shove and the things someone like ten Hag wants need to be enacted.

There's nothing to dispute in your last paragraph, either, and at a functional club, it's elementary stuff, which is again where I will believe it when I see it when it comes to us.
 
Fortitude said:
I don't have much I disagree with in your post except... the belief and optimism (read faith) you have in us being able to see such things through succinctly without [outside] assistance, or more specifically, with the football people being left to develop the footballing side of things how they see fit, which is where I mention impedance, particularly when push comes to shove and the things someone like ten Hag wants need to be enacted.

There's nothing to dispute in your last paragraph, either, and at a functional club, it's elementary stuff, which is again where I will believe it when I see it when it comes to us.
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It's exactly as you said, it is elementary stuff at a functional club to have a football structure and ours is an infant structure compared to other major European clubs, and you are right I'm tad bit optimistic, but let's see how it goes, the problem now is getting rid of Ole, Ole pre-dates the structure so only Joel or Ed can decide to sack Ole
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
It's exactly as you said, it is elementary stuff at a functional club to have a football structure and ours is an infant structure compared to other major European clubs, and you are right I'm tad bit optimistic, but let's see how it goes, the problem now is getting rid of Ole, Ole pre-dates the structure so only Joel or Ed can decide to sack Ole
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The only difference (it's a big difference) between what Overmars is doing at Ajax in a DoF capacity, compared to us, is that Overmars has full control over the recruitment at the club. At United, Solskjaer has control over who is signed and thus has the final say on who comes and goes. And Solskjaer also has his own personal scout, (Simon Wells) who Solskjaer has known since his time at Molde according to information which is in the public domain. And according to the graphic which appeared in The Athletic when Murtough was appointed DoF, Solskjaer is in charge of all the coaching staff and they all report to him. And Murtough is in charge of all the personnel in the recruitment department who all report to him with the exception of Simon Wells who works under Solskjaer. That has to change with the next appointment who has to come in as the head coach and not manager, if we want to align the whole recruitment process, which is very important.

And what people don't realise is that the likes of Overmars and Rangnick sign a number of young players at 16 to 21 years of age and provide a pathway for them into the first team, and blend the talented youth with the more experienced players, which enhances the bottom level (floor) of the team. And to provide some examples, Overmars signed youngsters like Antony, Kudus, Daramy etc, whilst under Rangnick, Leipzig signed, 16 year old Upamecano, 17 year old Konate, 18 year old Klostermann and teenagers Mane and Haidara at Salzburg, just to name some. And they supplemented those young recruits with more experienced players like Tadic, Blind, Berghuis / Willi Orban, Halstenberg, Forsberg etc.

Do we have youngsters who could rival the youngsters Rangnick/Overmars signed as teenagers? I would say yes, if we make the comparison at a similar age. Amad Diallo, Hannibal, Elanga, Willy Kambwala, Isak Hansen etc could potentially rival those players. But to do that that we need a head coach who is gonna work with the recruitment department in identifying targets externally and also juggle bringing through the exceptional youngsters as well. Currently the strategy from the manager is to keep buying and I don't think he's done as good a job as most think.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
It's exactly as you said, it is elementary stuff at a functional club to have a football structure and ours is an infant structure compared to other major European clubs, and you are right I'm tad bit optimistic, but let's see how it goes, the problem now is getting rid of Ole, Ole pre-dates the structure so only Joel or Ed can decide to sack Ole
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Well, I admire your optimism, and from your angle, it made perfect sense to question what I said: I've long since lost belief in the club doing anything right, even when they offer lip service to the contrary, which is why, until I see them put an actual, functional set of processes into place, I err on the side of caution and doubt.

We will see, and I would love to be wrong about this. In an ideal world, we get a progressive manager in and he and whatever team is formed around him, work in perfect harmony, like most top clubs do. It's crazy we beg for even the basics to be done correctly!
 
Adnan said:
The only difference (it's a big difference) between what Overmars is doing at Ajax in a DoF capacity, compared to us, is that Overmars has full control over the recruitment at the club. At United, Solskjaer has control over who is signed and thus has the final say on who comes and goes. And Solskjaer also has his own personal scout, (Simon Wells) who Solskjaer has known since his time at Molde according to information which is in the public domain. And according to the graphic which appeared in The Athletic when Murtough was appointed DoF, Solskjaer is in charge of all the coaching staff and they all report to him. And Murtough is in charge of all the personnel in the recruitment department who all report to him with the exception of Simon Wells who works under Solskjaer. That has to change with the next appointment who has to come in as the head coach and not manager, if we want to align the whole recruitment process, which is very important.

And what people don't realise is that the likes of Overmars and Rangnick sign a number of young players at 16 to 21 years of age and provide a pathway for them into the first team, and blend the talented youth with the more experienced players, which enhances the bottom level (floor) of the team. And to provide some examples, Overmars signed youngsters like Antony, Kudus, Daramy etc, whilst under Rangnick, Leipzig signed, 16 year old Upamecano, 17 year old Konate, 18 year old Klostermann and teenagers Mane and Haidara at Salzburg, just to name some. And they supplemented those young recruits with more experienced players like Tadic, Blind, Berghuis / Willi Orban, Halstenberg, Forsberg etc.

Do we have youngsters who could rival the youngsters Rangnick/Overmars signed as teenagers? I would say yes, if we make the comparison at a similar age. Amad Diallo, Hannibal, Elanga, Willy Kambwala, Isak Hansen etc could potentially rival those players. But to do that that we need a head coach who is gonna work with the recruitment department in identifying targets externally and also juggle bringing through the exceptional youngsters as well. Currently the strategy from the manager is to keep buying and I don't think he's done as good a job as most think.
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Thanks mate for this great insight, and I agree with you 100%, I believe once Ole departs, the next "Head Coach" should focus on coaching and work on how to bring in good youngsters into the first team, while the DoF and the recruitment team focus on players acquisition.
 
Fortitude said:
Well, I admire your optimism, and from your angle, it made perfect sense to question what I said: I've long since lost belief in the club doing anything right, even when they offer lip service to the contrary, which is why, until I see them put an actual, functional set of processes into place, I err on the side of caution and doubt.

We will see, and I would love to be wrong about this. In an ideal world, we get a progressive manager in and he and whatever team is formed around him, work in perfect harmony, like most top clubs do. It's crazy we beg for even the basics to be done correctly!
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I don't blame you in not trusting the board or even the current football structure, you aren't that wrong, I only questioned the bit about the Glazers or the execs interfering with a new head coach work, but I'm in agreement with you on most of the points you raised.

I know I'm bit optimistic in my assessment of the current situation we find ourselves in, and maybe I am being naïve in saying this, but I feel we are a competent head coach away from being a good team that is able to play good football and win games consistently, the best example of this is Tuchel and his impact on Chelsea, I feel that is possible with us.
 
Adnan said:
The only difference (it's a big difference) between what Overmars is doing at Ajax in a DoF capacity, compared to us, is that Overmars has full control over the recruitment at the club. At United, Solskjaer has control over who is signed and thus has the final say on who comes and goes. And Solskjaer also has his own personal scout, (Simon Wells) who Solskjaer has known since his time at Molde according to information which is in the public domain. And according to the graphic which appeared in The Athletic when Murtough was appointed DoF, Solskjaer is in charge of all the coaching staff and they all report to him. And Murtough is in charge of all the personnel in the recruitment department who all report to him with the exception of Simon Wells who works under Solskjaer. That has to change with the next appointment who has to come in as the head coach and not manager, if we want to align the whole recruitment process, which is very important.

And what people don't realise is that the likes of Overmars and Rangnick sign a number of young players at 16 to 21 years of age and provide a pathway for them into the first team, and blend the talented youth with the more experienced players, which enhances the bottom level (floor) of the team. And to provide some examples, Overmars signed youngsters like Antony, Kudus, Daramy etc, whilst under Rangnick, Leipzig signed, 16 year old Upamecano, 17 year old Konate, 18 year old Klostermann and teenagers Mane and Haidara at Salzburg, just to name some. And they supplemented those young recruits with more experienced players like Tadic, Blind, Berghuis / Willi Orban, Halstenberg, Forsberg etc.

Do we have youngsters who could rival the youngsters Rangnick/Overmars signed as teenagers? I would say yes, if we make the comparison at a similar age. Amad Diallo, Hannibal, Elanga, Willy Kambwala, Isak Hansen etc could potentially rival those players. But to do that that we need a head coach who is gonna work with the recruitment department in identifying targets externally and also juggle bringing through the exceptional youngsters as well. Currently the strategy from the manager is to keep buying and I don't think he's done as good a job as most think.
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Whether he has done a good job is tricky. What is the standard to compare? Compared to previous managers Ole has been good, even if they are obvious signings, like Varane or Sancho or even Ronaldo. Cavani is a great signing. Even if we have spent a lot, on like Maguire or AWB at least they are not flops even if they are not exceptional.
 
This would be my first choice. He’s up and coming and progressive and is going to get snapped up by a elite club sooner or later, why can’t it be us?
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
I don't blame you in not trusting the board or even the current football structure, you aren't that wrong, I only questioned the bit about the Glazers or the execs interfering with a new head coach work, but I'm in agreement with you on most of the points you raised.

I know I'm bit optimistic in my assessment of the current situation we find ourselves in, and maybe I am being naïve in saying this, but I feel we are a competent head coach away from being a good team that is able to play good football and win games consistently, the best example of this is Tuchel and his impact on Chelsea, I feel that is possible with us.
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In the quotes attributed to him today he says relationship with the board is important to him: do you back us in this regard was my initial point, and I don't. In fact, that's where we'll fall apart in negotiations if not willing to take his ideas on absolutely.

This Rodgers stuff, I sincerely hope is misdirection and we at least go in with a full attempt on Hag.
 
ForeverRed1 said:
This would be my first choice. He’s up and coming and progressive and is going to get snapped up by a elite club sooner or later, why can’t it be us?
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We are not big enough for managers with actual ambitions. It's not about the money, but about our actual ambition in the football world.
Right now, all signs point to the fact that the Glazers and our board are content with just keeping money flowing in.
 
People make a very valid point when they say he won't have the Ajax structure in place at Utd
 
Only way you bring in someone like Ten Hag to United is by replacing Ed with Edwin. That's a MASSIVE start!
 
He's clearly doing a very good job with Ajax but it's totally different to come to United and succeed, in terms of structure and the enormous amount of pressure he'd be under almost immediately. Even putting aside the obvious issues in how the club operates, he'd be working with a different level of player in terms of ego and under massive scrutiny.

What ever the upsides, he's untested at the top level and his appointment would be a risk for that reason alone. Personally, if the club goes that way on the basis that they think he's the next top manager, I'd be all for it, but expecting any instant success would be too much. He could be a Klopp, could be a Villas-Boas. Depends whether he can operate under the pressure.
 
Mainoldo said:
He’d literally ruin his career going to Newcastle now. A big manager won’t touch them for atleast another 5 years.
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Not this year, but if they stay up and invest, it'd be a good move for a manager who needs to take a step up. If he does well, he'll get a bigger job and there'll be less pressure to win trophies, at least early on.
 
RedRover said:
Not this year, but if they stay up and invest, it'd be a good move for a manager who needs to take a step up. If he does well, he'll get a bigger job and there'll be less pressure to win trophies, at least early on.
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The whole club needs re guttering it’s not an easy job. A smart manager lets someone else do all that then come in after. There not getting the best in class for now.
 
Mainoldo said:
The whole club needs re guttering it’s not an easy job. A smart manager lets someone else do all that then come in after. There not getting the best in class for now.
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He's not that though is he? He's a well-hyped manager doing a good job at a very well run club in a second tier league in terms of standard. Until he's delivered in a better league, it's just potential, nothing more.

Newcastle would potentially be a smart move for a manager who wants to take a step up without getting bombed out six months into a top job if success isn't instant. The talk (especially here in the north east) is impressive. Trying to get the likes of Overmars on board and now, the Sporting Director at Barcelona bodes well, as does the suggestion that rather than throwing mega-money at players they want to follow a model like RB Leipzig and others, identifying young players and building from there.

If that's the model they go for, and it's done correctly, he's more likely to get time to build something, with a good structure in place behind him than he would at a top club. He'd get resources and there's plenty of room for progress without the pressure of winning titles in the first few years.
 
pocco said:
I think these threads re Ten Hag, Zidane, Rodgers etc are pointless now. Ole isn't going anywhere for a long time.
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I agree with that. And I think he's staying for a number of reasons...including the club not bring brave, confident or decisive enough to sack him and also uncertainty over a replacement, which I can understand as I don't think there is an outstanding candidate. Ten Hag would be a big risk, he doesn't know the league, he's not got enough experience, certainly with managing a club the size of United.
 
pocco said:
I think these threads re Ten Hag, Zidane, Rodgers etc are pointless now. Ole isn't going anywhere for a long time.
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It's quite sad really, us fans debating the merits of potential managers who could turn us into a competitive football club, whilst the decision makers sit on their hands because they have a completely different measure of what 'success' is.

It's bewildering, baffling, negligent that we are continuing with the current managerial and coaching set up.
 
pocco said:
I think these threads re Ten Hag, Zidane, Rodgers etc are pointless now. Ole isn't going anywhere for a long time.
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Yeah I dread to think when I will be able to feel positive about us winning again, positive results since the scouse hameering just are not registering anything with me at all because I know it means a new manager gets further away
 
red thru&thru said:
Only way you bring in someone like Ten Hag to United is by replacing Ed with Edwin. That's a MASSIVE start!
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Would be perfect for the Glazers that. A CEOs job is to only ever answer to its shareholders - i.e. the Glazers & the stock market. Make a popular figure like Edwin the face of the club and ask him to tighten the purses, knowing the fanbase would never turn on him.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I dread to think when I will be able to feel positive about us winning again, positive results since the scouse hameering just are not registering anything with me at all because I know it means a new manager gets further away
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It's an awful situation to be in as a supporter but we've just got to look forward to the fact that, one day eventually, we'll see a well coached United, back to our best. Hopefully Ole doesn't decide to stick around till retirement age and that time isn't too many years away. I can certainly see us matching Liverpool's barren run quite easily - the last 8 years have flown by and nobody would have believed you if you told them we'd win nothing major for 8 years when Fergie left, especially after about £1b worth it investment in the team.

The only way this nightmare gets cut short is if some rich owner comes in and can't accept the current status quo. You never know, the Glazers may sell eventually.

It's when you think of our reality like this that you wish you could be like these other supporters that don't have any ambition for the club and just enjoy having Ole in charge. If we spent no money on our team then you could come round to that way of thinking, but when you have one of the best teams around and should be competing, that's where I can't see it their way.
 
red thru&thru said:
Only way you bring in someone like Ten Hag to United is by replacing Ed with Edwin. That's a MASSIVE start!
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Did you just sneak an Edwin Starr reference into that comment or was it purely incidental? Either way Ten Hag with or without Edwin would surely be better than our current set up. What is it good for? Absolutely nothing :D
 
mav_9me said:
Whether he has done a good job is tricky. What is the standard to compare? Compared to previous managers Ole has been good, even if they are obvious signings, like Varane or Sancho or even Ronaldo. Cavani is a great signing. Even if we have spent a lot, on like Maguire or AWB at least they are not flops even if they are not exceptional.
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The standard to compare is what Solskjaer said in his early pressers, when he mentioned playing a high line and pressing high etc. So by those standards, the Wan Bissaka and Maguire signings were bad, and I said so at the time. You don't buy a fullback who has defeciencies on the ball and a CB who has poor acceleration for around £150m and think you can maintain a high line and apply pressure. Because not only does the CB have to defend space in 1v1 scenarios but the fullback has to get involved in the build up play from the first phase and onwards as the transition progresses up field.

So what predictably ended up happening is that we ended up playing in a low to mid-block in a compact manner, which did get us results, but it didn't evolve our play style. And in the summer just gone, Solskjaer attempted to correct his mistakes by signing a CB and RB who fit the profile. He managed to sign Varane who is a good fit IMO but didn't succeed with Trippier.

So the barometer isn't what happened before Solskjaer but what our rivals have implemented domestically and in Europe.
 
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