Would you take Graham Potter at United?

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's not the fact that he was the Molde manager that is the issue. At least with Potter there is tangible evidence that he can coach, organise and tactically influence a team.

Barca hired Pep with no managerial pedigree, Juve hired Conte..etc etc etc. It's a nothing argument. I'm not saying Potter will be on their level, but I can't say that he won't. I'd say he has a chance of making a name for himself based on his time at Brighton. But not every manager has to prove themselves at a "stepping stone" club before being given a chance.

They have to be at the very least good enough at their level. Pep like Zidane was hired for winning with the youth team in the lower Spaniard divisions. Conte was making serious waves at his first club. Potter is just Moyes part 2. Not a Nagelsmann or a Sacchi. Who were so good even at a low level it was obvious they were ready for the big time

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Jose and LVG had won plenty, how did they turn out?

Vastly better than Moyes did at any aspect. Which is the point.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Good point. His is the most foolish way of looking at things.

What is foolish exactly? The fact that LVG and Mourinho actually both faired vastly better than Moyes? Ironically so has the one dismissed as "the molde manager"?

 

[Cascarino]

They have to be at the very least good enough at their level. Pep like Zidane was hired for winning with the youth team in the lower Spaniard divisions. Conte was making serious waves at his first club. Potter is just Moyes part 2. Not a Nagelsmann or a Sacchi. Who were so good even at a low level it was obvious they were ready for the big time

Conte relegated his first club, he then resigned from Atlanta while they were 19th.

 

[Teja]

Lots of lazy comparisons with Moyes in this thread I feel. Moyes never had a strong philosophy on how football should be played. His teams were well drilled defensively, tough to beat, physical etc. but they weren't doing a lot that was spectacular tactically even at Everton.

Potter is much more modern, can drill a high press, can build play out the back and just watching Brighton play against a big side, even when they lose, the game feels even. It's never an underdog hanging on for dear life hoping to knick a goal on the counter. I am certain he will go to a bigger club (possibly Arsenal given the similarities between Him / Arteta style wise) and do very well.

The data backs it up too .. people are looking only at league position but they rank 3rd in open play xGA just behind City, Chelsea for all of last season. Their xG is also pretty high, behind the usual top 7-8 or so + Villa. If they were slightly better at finishing last year they'd be sitting a lot higher up the table.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Conte relegated his first club, he then resigned from Atlanta while they were 19th.

He took over his first club. Was sacked for Sarri. After Sarri improved little, he was reinstated almost pulled off a great escape to keep them in Serie B.

He then won promotion to Serie A with Bari before going down with them.

After the Atalanta woes he promoted Sienna to the Serie A. After promoting Sienna he became Juve coach.

 

[Adnan]

Lots of lazy comparisons with Moyes in this thread I feel. Moyes never had a strong philosophy on how football should be played. His teams were well drilled defensively, tough to beat, physical etc. but they weren't doing a lot that was spectacular tactically even at Everton.

Potter is much more modern, can drill a high press, can build play out the back and just watching Brighton play against a big side, even when they lose, the game feels even. It's never an underdog hanging on for dear life hoping to knick a goal on the counter. I am certain he will go to a bigger club (possibly Arsenal given the similarities between Him / Arteta style wise) and do very well.

The data backs it up too .. people are looking only at league position but they rank 3rd in open play xGA just behind City, Chelsea for all of last season. Their xG is also pretty high, behind the usual top 7-8 or so + Villa. If they were slightly better at finishing last year they'd be sitting a lot higher up the table.

Good post.

It's fine to have doubts about Potter or anyone else when it comes down to a potential step up to a big club. But to compare him to David Moyes, who has always deployed basic tactics in a low/mid-block is as ignorant as comparing ten Hag to de Boer/Koeman.

 

[Cascarino]

He took over his first club. Was sacked for Sarri. After Sarri improved little, he was reinstated almost pulled off a great escape to keep them in Serie B.

He then won promotion to Serie A with Bari before going down with them.

After the Atalanta woes he promoted Sienna to the Serie A. After promoting Sienna he became Juve coach.

Aye, that's my point, he didn't make serious waves at his first club (or any prior to Juventus).

You mentioned Pep, Zidane and Conte, Potter has shown more than all three had by the time they got their big job.

 

[L1nk]

I'd much rather take a punt on Potter than have Southgate that's for sure, I may even prefer to take a punt on him than say bring in Rodgers

He'd be way lower down on my list than Ten Hag, Pochettino, or Marco Rose though

 

[Oldyella]

Vastly better than Moyes did at any aspect. Which is the point.

So has Ole who's won nothing of note. You can't just look at what someone's won as a barometer for whether they should manage us or not. I would much rather we take a chance on a manager with a clear vision of how he wants to play and his ability to get the team doing so than look at what trophies they have won in the past.

Potter and Ten Hag both appear to have the ability and be on the rise in their careers. If I could pick it would be Ten Hag as he's more experienced but if the club went for Potter I would be keen to see how he does. I think he's an impressive manager.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Brighton and Potter are currently 14th the XG table with West Ham of Moyes in third.

They are currently lie 8th in XGA with West Ham in 4th.


Last season Brighton were 10th on the XG table with West Ham in 5th

Brighton were 3rd on the XgA table with West Ham in 8th.


Make of the what you will .....

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So has Ole who's won nothing of note......

At United you mean. Ole as a manager is not as winless as Moyes in his managerial career. Resultantly he performed better in a job in which Moyes should have blown him out the water. Which is my point

You can't just look at what someone's won as a barometer for whether they should manage us or not.

I most definitely can. Our recent past is proof that there is a vast gap in the performance of those who won anything in their managerial careers and those who haven't in our managerial hotseat. Even in most of Europe that proof is ample at most big clubs.

Unless you are doing things like say Nagelsman. A United has no business taking punts on you. No matter how clear your footballing vision and ability to transfer it to your team is.

I would much rather we take a chance on a manager with a clear vision of how he wants to play and his ability to get the team doing so than look at what trophies they have won in the past.

Fair enough. That is your choice.

I would never take a punt on a manager just because he looks good at a lower level. He'd have to be truly outstanding like a Nagelsmann.

Potter and Ten Hag both appear to have the ability and be on the rise in their careers. If I could pick it would be Ten Hag as he's more experienced but if the club went for Potter I would be keen to see how he does. I think he's an impressive manager.

There in is the crux of the matter. You think Potter is impressive. I truly don't.

 

[Loon]

It's too soon for him. He's in the Mike Walker/Norwich position with admirers, let's see how he operates on the next level, as that's where Walker was found out. To me, he's from the "Would you take Eddie Howe at United?" school of thought.

 

[Adnan]

David Moyes' record v the top 4, (United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool) during his 11 year stint at Everton was, lost 27, drawn 16, won 0. And he was managing a club with more resources than Brighton. And he got the United job, some how, by playing basic risk averse football.

 

[Carlsen19]

At this point I'd take Brian Chelsea Potter.

 

[Adnan]

David Moyes' record v the top 4, (United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool) during his 11 year stint at Everton was, lost 27, drawn 16, won 0. And he was managing a club with more resources than Brighton. And he got the United job, some how, by playing basic risk averse football.

And what Moyes couldn't achieve in 11 years at a bigger club, Potter did achieve in his first few years at Brighton by defeating both Guardiola's, Man City and Klopp's ,Liverpool's at Anfield. And he achieved that by adopting a play style which places emphasis on possession play and trying to win the ball back by applying a well coordinated pressing game off the ball.

 

[Abraxas]

It's definitely a bit premature. It's like a good player that you keep an eye on. You want to be informed on their progress and when and if teams are sniffing around, but he's not necessarily an appointment for right this moment if Ole was to be sacked.

If we have a poor season that sees Ole sacked and Potter has an exceptionally good one (relative to being at Brighton) it becomes a bit more of a discussion. I don't think he'd be candidate number 1 but it's at least something a board could discuss whereas right now he just hasn't been about long enough, it is never going to happen.

 

[Desert Eagle]

And what Moyes couldn't achieve in 11 years at a bigger club, Potter did achieve in his first few years at Brighton by defeating both Guardiola's, Man City and Klopp's ,Liverpool's at Anfield. And he achieved that by adopting a play style which places emphasis on possession play and trying to win the ball back by applying a well coordinated pressing game off the ball.

Potter or Rodgers for you Adnan?

 

[Adnan]

Potter or Rodgers for you Adnan?

Potter over Rodgers for me. It seems like Rodgers has still to show the ability to create a team dynamic where his teams can sacrifice defensive stability for goals whilst creating a defensive balance on the turn over. He's shown that he can get a team to transition play offensively at a good level, but it seems his teams can't consistently provide defensive balance when it comes to defensive transitions. And that for me is quite worrying when you look at the calibre of teams he's coached.

 

[pocco]

They have to be at the very least good enough at their level. Pep like Zidane was hired for winning with the youth team in the lower Spaniard divisions. Conte was making serious waves at his first club. Potter is just Moyes part 2. Not a Nagelsmann or a Sacchi. Who were so good even at a low level it was obvious they were ready for the big time

Potter has had his successes at a (much) lower level. Where do you draw the line between that and lower Spanish divisions when judging if they're ready to manage one of the biggest teams in the world? It might be obvious in hindsight, but you never know until you try.

Surely you can aknowledge that Potter has done a decent job at Brighton, they're well drilled and play good football? This season they're on course for an even better season, currently only 1 point behind us. I think there's only so much you can do at a club like Brighton in such a short space of time and with limited resources. He's fine about as good a job as possible. What he did with Osterunds flies under the radar a bit but is impressive in its own right.

Regarding Nagelsmann, who was it obvious to that they were good enough? I rated him, but many on here were calling him tactically naive and lacking a plan B.

 

[pocco]

At United you mean. Ole as a manager is not as winless as Moyes in his managerial career. Resultantly he performed better in a job in which Moyes should have blown him out the water. Which is my point

Key word is 'should' and disproves your point. You're trying to argue that everything is so black and white. A lot of managers in your view should perform better than Potter, but they might not.

 

[pocco]

He took over his first club. Was sacked for Sarri. After Sarri improved little, he was reinstated almost pulled off a great escape to keep them in Serie B.

He then won promotion to Serie A with Bari before going down with them.

After the Atalanta woes he promoted Sienna to the Serie A. After promoting Sienna he became Juve coach.

At the time none of that would have made you think that he is going to be one of the best managers in the world. That's the problem with your outlook.

 

[Cheimoon]

They have to be at the very least good enough at their level. Pep like Zidane was hired for winning with the youth team in the lower Spaniard divisions. Conte was making serious waves at his first club. Potter is just Moyes part 2. Not a Nagelsmann or a Sacchi. Who were so good even at a low level it was obvious they were ready for the big time

Potter has had his successes at a (much) lower level. Where do you draw the line between that and lower Spanish divisions when judging if they're ready to manage one of the biggest teams in the world? It might be obvious in hindsight, but you never know until you try.

Surely you can aknowledge that Potter has done a decent job at Brighton, they're well drilled and play good football? This season they're on course for an even better season, currently only 1 point behind us. I think there's only so much you can do at a club like Brighton in such a short space of time and with limited resources. He's fine about as good a job as possible. What he did with Osterunds flies under the radar a bit but is impressive in its own right.

Regarding Nagelsmann, who was it obvious to that they were good enough? I rated him, but many on here were calling him tactically naive and lacking a plan B.

People seem to forget that Potter was at Östersund first and seem to think he first appeared at Brighton. But his Östersund record is amazing: he brought a fourth league team to the first league, won the Swedish FA Cup, and subsequently reached the Europa League group stages and then made it into the knockout stages. (With good football, I might add.)

Sweden is far away and unknown, and so his next step was Swansea; but if he had done something similar in England (like Wilder but better), he would have most likely been hired by an established (sub)top team.

To be clear, I don't know if Potter is United material (not meant negatively, I just don't know), but at least it'd be good if his full record were considered in these discussions, not just his time at Brighton.

 

[pocco]

What is foolish exactly? The fact that LVG and Mourinho actually both faired vastly better than Moyes? Ironically so has the one dismissed as "the molde manager"?

You're just trying yourself in knots here. How does a completely unproven manager and two proven managers being better than Moyes, prove that another relatively unproven manager would fail?

 

[pocco]

People seem to forget that Potter was at Östersund first and seem to think he first appeared at Brighton. But his Östersund record is amazing: he brought a fourth league team to the first league, won the Swedish FA Cup, and subsequently reached the Europa League group stages and then made it into the knockout stages. (With good football, I might add.)

Sweden is far away and unknown, and so his next step was Swansea; but if he had done something similar in England (like Wilder but better), he would have most likely been hired by an established (sub)top team.

To be clear, I don't know if Potter is United material (not meant negatively, I just don't know), but at least it'd be good if his full record were considered in these discussions, not just his time at Brighton.

Exactly. And in the Europa League he took the scalps of teams with miles more pedigree then Osterund. Whilst he won no trophy for this, I imagine this was considered a massive achievement for them.

 

[Sviken]

Either way - now that Conte is unavailable and Zidane doesn't want to come here, we're gonna take a huge risk on the next manager regardless, be it Potter or Ten Hag. I have no problem with trying for Potter. Unlike Moyes Potter is adventurous and sets up his teams to win, not avoid defeat.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Potter over Rodgers for me. It seems like Rodgers has still to show the ability to create a team dynamic where his teams can sacrifice defensive stability for goals whilst creating a defensive balance on the turn over. He's shown that he can get a team to transition play offensively at a good level, but it seems his teams can't consistently provide defensive balance when it comes to defensive transitions. And that for me is quite worrying when you look at the calibre of teams he's coached.

Fair enough mate, appreciate the reply. I'm also Potter over Rodgers though for a less technical reason. Something about Rodgers just rubs me the wrong way and his ceiling seems lower than Potters.

 

[JustAGuest]

Brighton and Potter are currently 14th the XG table with West Ham of Moyes in third.

They are currently lie 8th in XGA with West Ham in 4th.


Last season Brighton were 10th on the XG table with West Ham in 5th

Brighton were 3rd on the XgA table with West Ham in 8th.


Make of the what you will .....

West Ham have a better squad and also a style which would be less suited to a top team. They were 15th in the league for possession last year. He would have to adapt his approach if teams were to be more defensive against them (something he evidently failed to do to success when managing us).

 

[dal]

They have to be at the very least good enough at their level. Pep like Zidane was hired for winning with the youth team in the lower Spaniard divisions. Conte was making serious waves at his first club. Potter is just Moyes part 2. Not a Nagelsmann or a Sacchi. Who were so good even at a low level it was obvious they were ready for the big time

Totally agree with this, players would also have a field day with potter. Thing with solskjaer is he made history at Molde, yes the league is poor but he still did something with Molde which was significant. Whatever Solskjaer does is magnified I mean even Liverpool and city drew and lost to Atlanta over the past two years but solskjaer draws and a big drama is made.

I think he knows what he needs to do we have had defensive injuries and have had to tactically reshape with the Ronaldo signing but people over look this, to much is made over his style. He is a pragmatic manager with counter attacking style but can mix it and yes this can improve.

Yes he has to navigate his way through and the Liverpool loss was appalling but IF we beat city today we are level with City in the league and top of the champions league group which isn’t bad 11 games into the season. I don’t listen to noise I feel we must improve and ruthless decisions need to be made, let’s see how it plays out.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You're just trying yourself in knots here. How does a completely unproven manager and two proven managers being better than Moyes, prove that another relatively unproven manager would fail?

Really? It's that hard for you to get it? Are you truly that gullible?

You really don't see the connection between 3 managers who won something doing better in the United hot seat than one who didn't?

Yet in terms of managerial acumen one who won nothing on paper looked to have the better managerial know how than the one who is currently in the United got seat? Yet faires far worse?

You still can't see how that informs how one as unproven as Potter would probably end up at a higher level than he is now?

 

[grahamo]

I'd take Harry Potter at United at this stage

 

[DickDastardly]

This topic is gonna be on fire once we lose to City at home and BHA demolish Newcastle with players like Trossard and Adam fecking Lallana.

I'd still prefer Ten Hag. Especially if he came in the Van Der Sar buy one get one free package.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Aye, that's my point, he didn't make serious waves at his first club (or any prior to Juventus).

You mentioned Pep, Zidane and Conte, Potter has shown more than all three had by the time they got their big job.

By the time Conte got the Juve job he had a Serie B win. And another promotion to the Serie A under his belt

By the time Zidane got the Real job. He had impressed as a sporting director, assistant manager for the sehior team and had won the third division in Spain once with the Castila.

Pep to had a 3rd division title with Barca playing the Cruyff way.

Potter ik comparison has the swedish cup and 2 promotions from its 2nd and 3rd tier. Ironically his trophy record is more akin to Solksjaer's at molde who almost everyone is all too eager to ridicule

 

[pocco]

Really? It's that hard for you to get it? Are you truly that gullible?

You really don't see the connection between 3 managers who won something doing better in the United hot seat than one who didn't?

Yet in terms of managerial acumen one who won nothing on paper looked to have the better managerial know how than the one who is currently in the United got seat? Yet faires far worse?

You still can't see how that informs how one as unproven as Potter would probably end up at a higher level than he is now?

Winning the Norwegian league has no relevance to being a success at United, you're kidding yourself. How many managers have won trophies in all these different leagues across the world? Would they all be better suited to the job than Graham Potter? Honestly I just don't buy into what you're saying in the slightest. Potter might not be the man, who knows? But your logic is flawed.

 

[pocco]

By the time Conte got the Juve job he had a Serie B win. And another promotion to the Serie A under his belt

By the time Zidane got the Real job. He had impressed as a sporting director, assistant manager for the sehior team and had won the third division in Spain once with the Castila.

Pep to had a 3rd division title with Barca playing the Cruyff way.

Potter ik comparison has the swedish cup and 2 promotions from its 2nd and 3rd tier. Ironically his trophy record is more akin to Solksjaer's at molde who almost everyone is all too eager to ridicule

Correct. But people aren't ridiculing Ole for his past achievements, just how things are unfolding for him at United. Very few were questioning Ole at all until recently. You're confusing two different matters.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

At the time none of that would have made you think that he is going to be one of the best managers in the world. That's the problem with your outlook.

Ridiculous logic at its best. Most managers stepping up to the big boys at the very least have to show an actually ability to win league titles at some decent level because competing for league is the staple at that level. On very few occasions someone like a Sacchi or Nagelsmann comes along with the kind of obvious managerial brilliance that makes that obsolete. A Potter is not remotely in that league.

There is no good reason to believe he'd handle the step up. Yet the likes of Pochetino and Sarri found it hard to

 

[pocco]

Ridiculous logic at its best. Most managers stepping up to the big boys have to show an actually ability to win league titles at some level because that is the staple at that level. On very few occasions someone like a Sacchi or Nagelsmann comes along with the kind of obvious managerial brilliance that makes that obsolete. A Potter is not remotely in that league.

In your opinion. In my opinion, if Potter had been given a chance at a German club, where the bigger teams actually do consider managers based on tactical acumen and style as opposed to solely trophies, then he might be more palatable to you. Because I know that he would shine tactically, because he had done at every single level he's managed at so far. He earned plaudits for his football even at Osterund.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Winning the Norwegian league has no relevance to being a success at United, you're kidding yourself.

Its you kidding yourself. Showing an actual ability to win league football
aids plenty in being able to do anything at a United. That is why an Ole has Ben able to do better than a Moyes.

It's even more ironic that you are the biggest writer off of what Ole achieved in Molde. But are eager for us to consider Potter's work in Sweden whilst judging him. Talk of double standards 101

How many managers have won trophies in all these different leagues across the world? Would they all be better suited to the job than Graham Potter.

There is world of difference between arguing that anyone picked for the United job should at the very least have shown an ability to win league football.

With a blanket statement saying anyone who has won a league title anywhere should be eligible for the United job.

Its your fault alone you can't distinguish the two

Honestly I just don't buy into what you're saying in the slightest. Potter might not be the man, who knows? But your logic is flawed.

You can't buy it because your understanding of logic is what is actually flawed. Which is the issue here.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

[

Correct. But people aren't ridiculing Ole for his past achievements, just how things are unfolding for him at United. Very few were questioning Ole at all until recently. You're confusing two different matters.

Oh please. They do it all the time. That is why he is always reffered to dismissively as "the molded manager"

 

[Lord SInister]

A big fat no.
Hipster coach for football hipster.