After 3 yrs of solskjaer what changed, you have to rebuild everything from zero
Would you take Conte at United?
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After 3 yrs of solskjaer what changed, you have to rebuild everything from zero
Sorry I misread where you said “few leagues and cups” as “a few league cups”.
I think the squad is the best we’ve had in years.
I would happily bring him in now, give him a year or so, and if he's not meeting expectations, replace him.
We need to get out of this mindset that all managers need to be given years and vast sums of money, and be allowed to leave the squad in tatters as a result.
Managers are more disposable than that and need to be held accountable within a far shorter period of time than many of our fans want to wait before judging. It's not rocket science, other very successful clubs have been operating that way for years.
We need to get out of this mindset that all managers need to be given years and vast sums of money, and be allowed to leave the squad in tatters as a result.
Managers are more disposable than that and need to be held accountable within a far shorter period of time than many of our fans want to wait before judging. It's not rocket science, other very successful clubs have been operating that way for years.
I dont know. No-One stands out for me...
Whoever takes over will inherit a very good pool of players.
A good keeper. On paper a very good first choice back-four. And a wealth of attacking options.
Whoever takes over will inherit a very good pool of players.
A good keeper. On paper a very good first choice back-four. And a wealth of attacking options.
Bring entire Ajax coaching staffs and executives here.
I really do think Conte could make this current squad fly.
Pay him what he wants and get him in.
Pay him what he wants and get him in.
Conte's Scudetto Winning Inter
Two years ago, Inter just and no more finished in Serie A's top four to achieve Champions League qualification. They were a club without a trophy in eight years, their last league title coming in 2010 under the guidance of Jose Mourinho. One of Italian football's giants was in need of a revival. That's when Antonio Conte stepped in.
After a first year of steady improvement that saw Inter rise to second place behind Juventus, claim their best points tally since 2009 and reach the Europa League final, Conte led Inter back to the very top of Italian football this season, guiding the Nerazzurri to the title with games left to spare. Here's how he did it.
SIGNING LUKAKU, CHANGING SHAPE
Without question, the biggest signing Inter have made during Conte's tenure is that of Romelu Lukaku. After an underwhelming second year with Manchester United, the Belgian hitman swapped Old Trafford for San Siro in an €80 million deal. Inter broke their club record transfer fee to sign Lukaku, and he has paid them back in goals, finding the net 45 times in his two seasons in Italy.
Tactically, the major change Conte made was moving away from the 4-2-3-1 favoured by his predecessor, Luciano Spalletti, and going for a 3-5-2. Conte has been associated with a back three throughout most of his career, though particularly with the Italy national team and Chelsea. During his spell in England, Conte changed the game. Few Premier League teams used a back three before he arrived, but it became much more popular once his Chelsea side dominated the league in 2016-17.
While the back three is the same, there are differences in the system Conte used at Chelsea and the one he has used with Inter. At Stamford Bridge he preferred a double pivot of Cesc Fabregas and Nemanja Matic, but with Inter he has used Marcelo Brozovic as a lone pivot, usually with two more dynamic, box-to-box midfielders either side of him. Nicolo Barella, another of Conte's signings, has perfectly fit the box-to-box role on the right of midfield.
LUKAKU, LAUTARO, AND INTER'S RIGHT-SIDED BIAS
Up front, Conte has opted for a strike partnership of Lukaku and Lautaro Martinez, as opposed to the three-front he used with Chelsea of Diego Costa supported by Eden Hazard and Pedro. Lukaku and Lautaro have formed an outstanding relationship, full of devastating interplay. They are arguably the best front two in Europe right now.
Both are capable of running behind defences with speed and clever movement, and both can also drop back and take the ball to feet with their back to goal. Conte's Inter are not a slow passing side and like to hit their front two quickly and frequently, with Lukaku a strong target defenders are unable to dispossess. The understanding between the strike pairing means that, when Lukaku receives the direct pass, Lautaro is around him and ready for the lay-off.
This season, Inter have gained a lot of success attacking down the right. Lukaku plays on the right of the front two, which partly explains why 40% of the team's attacking play goes down that side of the pitch. However, there is another compelling reason for this right-sided bias: Achraf Hakimi.
Signed from Real Madrid in a €40 million deal after two impressive seasons on loan at Borussia Dortmund, Hakimi has injected quality at right wing-back. Previously, Conte relied on experienced former winger Antonio Candreva, but Hakimi has added greater pace, skill and goal threat. Alongside Alexis Sanchez, he is Inter's joint-third top-scorer this term, behind Lukaku and Lautaro. With seven goals and eight assists, he averages 0.53 goal involvements per 90 minutes (essentially, setting up or scoring a goal every other game).
Hakimi overlaps down the right, hits the by-line and supplies quality crosses. He can also penetrate on the dribble or run infield, swapping positions with Barella moving wide, or make runs behind the last line. This variety, combined with an ability to score from inside or outside the box and with either foot, has turned Hakimi into one of the most potent wing-backs in the game.
Conte places great attacking emphasis on his wide men, and the return of Ivan Perisic has added a similar goal threat from left wing-back. Perisic has three goals and four assists, averaging 0.36 goal involvements per 90. It's not Hakimi levels, but it's not bad at all. And the pair have at times combined with one another: when one crosses, the other hits the back post to try and finish.
CONTE-STYLE DEFENCE AND FAST COUNTERS
Defensively, Conte teams rarely fall into the 'high pressure' bracket. His Chelsea team were more than happy to sit deep, soak up opposition attacks, then counter. It's a similar focus with Inter, who only average 51.9% possession and are 13th in Serie A in passes allowed per defensive action (PPDA), a metric that measures pressing intensity.
Rather than pressing high to rush opponents, force mistakes or win the ball in their half, Inter let their opposition have possession at the back. They only press high from goal kicks, going man-to-man. Otherwise they defend in a 5-3-2 mid-block and press on passes into midfield. Lukaku and Lautaro work well as a unit to block passes through the centre and slow the opponent down, while the midfield shifts as one to remain compact while getting closer to the ball.
Inter's pressing is to contain rather than harass, and they wait patiently to steal balls in midfield using the numbers they get centrally in their 5-3-2 defensive shape. Then, once they have regained the ball, they look to counter quickly. Lukaku is a real threat in these moments, combining his speed and strength with clever movement. Often, he will pull wide towards the right, get outside the defender, then drive inside 1-versus-1, cutting onto his left foot to feed a teammate or to shoot himself.
Of Inter's 82 league goals scored this season, nine have come on the counter-attack. That's just under 11% of their total, and more than any other Serie A side has managed from breakaways. Again, it's a recurring theme of Conte teams past - Inter, just as Chelsea and Italy before, have evolved into a ruthless counter-attacking machine.
WINNING MENTALITY
Inter have a reputation for blowing up at inopportune moments. Just when everyone expects them to break through and win major honours, they lose their nerve. Even in one-off big games, they have, historically, consistently failed to seal victory. But that has all changed under Conte, whose winning mentality has impacted on every top team he has coached.
Conte is a demanding manager, on and off the field. He expects the highest standards from everyone around him, including his players. Ashley Young, who joined Inter from Manchester United last season, has praised this aspect of Conte's managerial persona. "He's won trophies and he's got an ambition to want to achieve things. I want to do that as well," Young said last January. "With a manager like that, you want to go out there and fight for him."
Inter have broken Juventus' stranglehold of Italian football. And, when considering their change in tactics, personnel and mentality over the last two years, Conte's influence on their success is clearly visible.
He did well with our ex players. So theres a chance he will do tne same with the much better, current ones.
You are correct that Conte has frequently shifted teams from back 4s to back 3s - but I believe that Conte has done this opportunistically due to the personnel he has available to him moreso than any inherent dedication to the principles of a back 3.
Conte is a complete nutter that cares almost exclusively about winning. If his squad is built for a back 4 and that gives him the best chance of success, he'll use a back 4.
He isnt a washed up coach yet. So we will wait for few more years. Then when he fails we can say even top managers come here and get wasted.
Conte reminds me very much of a slightly younger Mourinho. His Inter team built around supplying Lukaku was exactly what Mourinho wanted to do at United.
The thing is unless he immediately won a big trophy (not just the Europa or league cup like Mourinho) the fans would be on his back and no doubt there would be fall outs etc. It could get toxic very quickly.
The thing is unless he immediately won a big trophy (not just the Europa or league cup like Mourinho) the fans would be on his back and no doubt there would be fall outs etc. It could get toxic very quickly.
If you hire Conte, be prepared to sack him in two seasons when he turns on everyone because the board wouldn't spend £200m on new players. The problem is, our board won't and he'd drag the club back down to the post Mourinho days with all his shit.
I seriously doubt that. Very few great managers who have found a consistent winning formula has ever so radical deviated from it. Especially not a pragmatist who insist on wining like a Conte. I fully expect if he ever took over at United he'd switch to a back 3 formation. Even have to play a number of our wide forwards or attacking midfielders like lingard as wing backs to make it consistently work with our kind of squad
What I don't believe is our match going fans will ever take to it. I also don't trust our board to give him the support he would need. 2 issues that sunk two better coaches prior to the incumbent.
Plus unlike any of the previous coaches, Conte will NEVER hide disagreements in the press
contrary to some people's belief. I'm a huge fan of Conte. I just don't see how United will suit him currently
We should bring him in. That 352 formation is a cheat code in the right hands. No space for the opposition on the wings or through the middle, and upto six players could join every attack. I could see him creating a winning machine with our current squad.
Although there are some positions I'd still like us to address, but Conte has proven capable of utilizing a squad to great effects without much changes, and using players in unfamiliar positions with great success. I can already see him successfully integrating Rashford into the formation as a wingback.
I'm convinced he will make us stronger in defence, tougher to beat, and if he can help us stay in control during matches, the quality of Cavani, Ronaldo, Sancho and Fernandes in attack will win us the important games. We will get plenty of passion from him on the sidelines too.
Although there are some positions I'd still like us to address, but Conte has proven capable of utilizing a squad to great effects without much changes, and using players in unfamiliar positions with great success. I can already see him successfully integrating Rashford into the formation as a wingback.
I'm convinced he will make us stronger in defence, tougher to beat, and if he can help us stay in control during matches, the quality of Cavani, Ronaldo, Sancho and Fernandes in attack will win us the important games. We will get plenty of passion from him on the sidelines too.
Not really a fan of the idea of us going back to dropping deep and soaking it in approach. But this morning it feels like the season is almost over already and I’m sick of United waiting till there’s absolutely no hope and then changing things.
I don’t think he’s the man for us. It all points to Zidane as our new man should it happen.
I don’t think he’s the man for us. It all points to Zidane as our new man should it happen.
Looking back at his formations - he has so many defensive players that alot of our attacking players will be on the bench. The most attacking formation I can see us play is this:
1. Pogba stays & Bruno goes to the bench to play a 343. We also buy Haaland because he loves a Lukaku shape striker. He won't let him go to another club, Ronaldo or not.
De Gea
AWB - Varane - Maguire
RWB- McTomminay Pogba - Shaw
Sancho-Haaland-Rashford
Subs : Bruno, Ronaldo, VDB, Matic, Fred, Etc
2. Pogba stays and we play the 3511.
3. Replace Pogba with another defensive player/defensive minded CDM.
1. Pogba stays & Bruno goes to the bench to play a 343. We also buy Haaland because he loves a Lukaku shape striker. He won't let him go to another club, Ronaldo or not.
De Gea
AWB - Varane - Maguire
RWB- McTomminay Pogba - Shaw
Sancho-Haaland-Rashford
2. Pogba stays and we play the 3511.
De Gea
AWB - Varane - Maguire
RWB - Mctominay- Pogba - Shaw
Bruno
Rashford
Haaland
I think it will be very close varieties of this if he does come.AWB - Varane - Maguire
RWB - Mctominay- Pogba - Shaw
Bruno
Rashford
Haaland
3. Replace Pogba with another defensive player/defensive minded CDM.
Fair points; certainly you'd have a better sense of what would and wouldn't be acceptable for your support than I do.
Re: managers making a large deviation, Tuchel certainly did that - he'd never been a consistent back 3 manager before coming to Chelsea as he pretty exclusively used 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 at Dortmund and PSG. Granted, his CV isn't nearly as long as Conte's and that's a fair point, but I don't think the two are THAT dissimilar in terms of their approach and focus on winning.
They aren't too dissimilar. its true. The subtle difference is Conte is so sure of his methods. He can even deviate slightly to prove a point like he did at chelsea at the start to show his are the best. If our fans were more flexible. I'd gladly have him as a coach because I like both his style and preferred formations.
The hugest irony of almost all our f ans calling for Conte. Will be the first ones baying for his blood after and decrying being "bored" in a few months because they don't like what they are seeing even if we would be wining relentlessly. I cant forget how they hated LVG for playing wingers like Young and Valencia at fullback. You can imagine how they'd react with like rashford and Lingard as wing backs
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We need to stop giving every manager 3+ years in the hope that they build a dynasty. With the squad we have, we need to be winning now. Not in 3 years time.
Most top clubs switch managers often these days, unless they find an absolute gem (Pep and Klopp). It's a fact that players are far more expensive to replace compared to managers.
The only criteria must be that the coach should be suited to the team. If they can win a title in one year and leave or get fired the next, that's totally fine.
Most top clubs switch managers often these days, unless they find an absolute gem (Pep and Klopp). It's a fact that players are far more expensive to replace compared to managers.
The only criteria must be that the coach should be suited to the team. If they can win a title in one year and leave or get fired the next, that's totally fine.
They aren't too dissimilar. its true. The subtle difference is Conte is so sure of his methods. He can even deviate slightly to prove a point like he did at chelsea at the start to show his are the best. If our fans were more flexible. I'd gladly have him as a coach because I like both his style and preferred formations.
The hugest irony of almost all our f ans calling for Conte. Will be the first ones baying for his blood after and decrying being "bored" in a few months because they don't like what they are seeing even if we would be wining relentlessly. I cant forget how they hated LVG for playing wingers like Young and Valencia at fullback. You can imagine how they'd react with like rashford and Lingard as wing backs
Yeah think you're spot on - there are lots of stories about Tuchel seeking out feedback and actively trying to learn from others; definitely don't get the impression Conte has done much of that!
If you still had Dan James he'd be a perfect wing-back! Conspiracy theory - did Ole sell him to make the squad less compatible with Conte?!??
Why won't we patiently wait for him to deliver like we've been doing with Ole in the last 3 years? Doesn't a proven winner like Conte deserve at least the same time or do we have different standards for different managers? Or will we suddenly remember the importance of being competitive and demanding? I don't think we'll appoint Conte; but if that ever happens, I'm sure the goal post will be moving once again.
The irony, or whatever you would prefer to call it, is that when he took charge of Juventus in 2010 it was the other way around. Inter had won four in a row. Juve just finished 7th with 55 points in 2010 and 7th and 58 points in 2011. In ‘12, with Conte in charge for the first season, 1st with 84 points.
I really think what he did in ‘17 with Chelsea is so underrated too. I remember when Hiddink left them that summer in 16 he said it was a broken team that would need time to get back to the top.
Part of his edge has been the way he balance his teams. I think both Pep and Klopp, and several others, have learned from it and replicated him in different ways. Therefor I’m not sure he still has the same edge. But he is still brilliant, and in my opinion top three (behind Klopp and Pep) the past decade.
The plan and recruitment policy of the club is the only thing that should be long term. Not the manager. The manager is simply here to work under the plan and recruitment policy and win us trophies. Conte can win us trophies but I have doubts if he can work under the new recruitment policy we adopted under Ole that I think has been quite good
I think the parallels are there between us and Chelsea of last year. Lampard brought in big name signings and couldn't handle that pressure and I think the same is true of Solskjaer now. After Tuchel came in Chelsea looked a far more cohesive unit and I think the same would be true of us if we bring in an experienced coach.
Conte's European record (and our midfield) means it'd be very unlikely we could even come close to replicating what Chelsea did in the Champions League last year, but we're not going anywhere fast so we've not got much to lose now. I don't think it's necessarily the perfect fit, but we've got to try and salvage top 4 and win a trophy. I'd be far more confident of that with Conte than Solskjaer, or any other 'project' type managers like ten Hag.
Conte's European record (and our midfield) means it'd be very unlikely we could even come close to replicating what Chelsea did in the Champions League last year, but we're not going anywhere fast so we've not got much to lose now. I don't think it's necessarily the perfect fit, but we've got to try and salvage top 4 and win a trophy. I'd be far more confident of that with Conte than Solskjaer, or any other 'project' type managers like ten Hag.
Absolutely.
At least for the 21-22 season.
At least for the 21-22 season.
I so agree.
Im a huge fan of his. That is why I want him to find a happy home. I thought that was Inter then the owners decided to sell all the house hold goods. I'm certain it can't be United with our fans, sadly
Stranger things have happenedYeah think you're spot on - there are lots of stories about Tuchel seeking out feedback and actively trying to learn from others; definitely don't get the impression Conte has done much of that!
If you still had Dan James he'd be a perfect wing-back! Conspiracy theory - did Ole sell him to make the squad less compatible with Conte?!??
but I doubt. Ole doesn't seem the makiavelian type.Nb: if James was still around I'd probably be screaming get in conte. James, shaw, telles and lingard would be perfect for conte's wingbacks
I have total confidence that Conte would bring a direction and balance to the side, potentially success. But I'm also confident that, long term, the particular playing style that would be on show wont appease the fanbase.
I don't think it matters what fans want. Ultimately the Glazers make the call and I think there are probably at least 10 managers they'd approach before Conte.
It's just doesn't feel like a good fit at all. Conte seems to have a meltdown everywhere and I don't think our owners, utter t***s they are, want that type of character around.
Poch, Zidane, Rodgers, Ten Hag to name but a few I think would appeal more with them. I don't think they want Jose 2.0.
It's just doesn't feel like a good fit at all. Conte seems to have a meltdown everywhere and I don't think our owners, utter t***s they are, want that type of character around.
Poch, Zidane, Rodgers, Ten Hag to name but a few I think would appeal more with them. I don't think they want Jose 2.0.
Not sure that will ever happen for him. Just one of those guys who is a bit restless at heart.
I would take him. Same reason as before; we dont have the squad to play «high press»-football. Ronaldo or no Ronaldo. Players like Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood. They would not suit Klopp/Pep-football in my opinion. Conte would be able to work with this squad.
I also like how he always manage to get the most out of so many players. At Chelsea he made Luiz look good. Elevated Azpi. Got the best from Alonso and Moses. Did a hell of a job with Lukaku at Inter too. Actually made him a much better footballer. It would be so interesting to see who he would «make» at Man Utd. My guess is Lingard, Fred and Pogba. Martial would be killed or made.
(All the talk about Rodgers is terrifying.)
No no no
I'm honestly getting warmer on the idea and it's depressing. Give him a short contract and see how it goes, otherwise we'll continue to roller coaster through this season up and down with no trophies to show for come May.
If his main issue is that he wants the club to spend silly money, that won’t be an issue here. We’ve spent close to 450m in 2.5 years under Ole.
It’s the perfect match.
Yes, of course, like the current style is making us suck our own dicks. Jesus Christ, just grow the balls to say you'd easily want him here without the ifs and buts.
We know that Conte makes unrealistic demands no matter what he wins or how much he is actually supported. When the club is unwilling to spend daft money on a player he wants he’ll throw his toys out and do a Mourinho. He also has no cares or concern as to what the state of the club will be when he leaves and that includes wage bill, playing staff, coaching staff etc, and we have no DOF to oversee he doesn’t do a Mourinho.
Don’t we now? I thought we now have a structure for transfers and it’s not just managers making decisions anymore.
I think if Conte, or someone else, was brought in we'd see a 10 game bounce and then the same cowards would begin to let him down on the pitch.
Then we'd be at square one.
Then we'd be at square one.
Stranger things have happened
Nb: if James was still around I'd probably be screaming get in conte. James, shaw, telles and lingard would be perfect for conte's wingbacks
Somehow it completely slipped my mind you have Telles - I genuinely think he could be an Alonso-level attacking LWB in the right system.
Cheers for the chat though mate; appreciate you sharing your perspective!
Who are the cowards?
Are they also cowards on international duty or just at United?
Were they cowards at their previous clubs when we bought them or did they become cowards at United? If so, why are they still here?
Why do they get picked?
If we sell them, will they stop being cowards at their future clubs (ie is their cowardice innate or circumstantial)?
Just trying to understand this player cowardice hypothesis.
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