I don't think he/she is saying we should keep Ole but rather we shouldn't look at goals scored as a measure to judge Conte's approach to playing the game. And the Mourinho comparison is a good one where his Madrid team scored a 121 goals in a season but he was still a pragmatic coach who was reactive rather than proactive.
Would you take Conte at United?
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Yeah, but complaining about Conte for negative football is ridiculous when Ole is one of the most negative negative manager around. He literally plays 2 central midfielders who can't contribute in attack even when up against relegation standard teams.
Add in the fact that Conte has shown he can actually win stuff and make his team play the way he wants them to, he's a much better option than having Ole.
I agree and think the poster in question also agrees. But this isn't a choice between Ole and Conte but rather between Conte and the rest of Europe imo. I would personally prefer a head coach like Ten Hag over Conte due to the superior coaching ability of Ten Hag when it comes to implementing a expansive brand of football imo.
Who said Ole's football is better?
But if we're talking about who we should hire as our next manager, Ole is irrelevant as Ole isn't an option to replace himself. The comparison is is with all other managers.
I think Ten Hag is a better option atm.
There is such a thing as stylistical fit. Conte relies on a core of veterans that he trusts implicitly. United at the moment doesn't have such a group, hence he would require the signing of the likes of Ashley Young and Sanchez. Also his European record is piss poor compared to his league record. We don't necessarily have a problem in the league, but we've been wank in Europe ever since SAF retired.
For that reason alone Ten Hag>Conte when it comes to United. Ten Hag has a really good history of bringing through and integrating youth players which will help the likes of Greenwood, Mejbri, Garner, Laird etc settle in. We have an insane amount of talented youth players, and hiring someone like Conte would be a catastrophe for a lot of them.
He would also implement a well defined attacking style full on with patterns of play which is going to help tremendously players like Donny, Sancho and also limit the wastefullness of Pogba and Bruno.
When it comes to Europe, everyone remembers that 2019 run where Ajax should have been in the final. Conte doesn't have anything close to this.
And for those doubting if someone like Ronaldo will respect the likes of Ten Hag, please remember this simple thing: Ten Hag knocked out Juventus and Ronaldo in 2019. Players usually respect when managers with inferior teams and budgets can achieve mirracles and I think Ronaldo is no different.
When it comes to managerial appointments it's all about hiring the right manager at the right time. That's why I'm convinced that if we hire Conte it will be a disaster on par with hiring LVG or Mourinho, wrong manager at the wrong time.
Great Shout actually. Out of the 4 available and discussed at great depth recently, i.e. Conte, Zidane, Brendan Rodgers, Ten Hag is actually the future. What he is doing at Ajax is admirable. He is due for a big role in a big club soon. Plus the current link to VDS at Ajax - he would know exactly what we at Utd need from a manager. So I will go for him if Ole is gone.
Conte is and has been a controversial character as we all saw at Chelsea and Inter Milan. Demands success from big stars and manages them well but him and his defensive playing style wont cut it to us fans here...so no.
Ten Haag yeah knocked out by Frank s chelsea in Europe from group stage. If that s happened at man utd he will immediately shown the door. Delusional at its best to think he is better than conte.
I like ten Hag as well but I've a feeling the board will want a coach who has experience of handling big egos and a track record of winning at multiple clubs which defaults to Conte.
I'd literally take Steve Bruce over Ole at this stage....Conte is a proven winner and an extremely hard manager to beat over 38 games...
We have three of the best managers in the world at our three main rivals. We have to adopt and bring in one ourselves otherwise we'll go around in circles under Ole and getting brainwashed into thinking he's making "progress"
Could you imagine If Mourinho or LVG had spent 450 million in three years and played this type of unimaginative crap under Ole? The media and the fans would explode
We have three of the best managers in the world at our three main rivals. We have to adopt and bring in one ourselves otherwise we'll go around in circles under Ole and getting brainwashed into thinking he's making "progress"
Could you imagine If Mourinho or LVG had spent 450 million in three years and played this type of unimaginative crap under Ole? The media and the fans would explode
Yes yes yes
I voted no to Conte due to the drama it would bring, but are his problems usually with the board, or the players? I think we have a lot of ego's an big personalities in the squad right now, and they needs a manager with an ego to match. The only worry with Conte is that it all could explode.
I think the aspect of the board is a less problematic one with United. He will get the funding he wants, the players he wants, and we're not a selling club.
At the moment, it feels like only a matter of time until Ole is sacked. He'd taken this squad to the peak of his abilities I feel, and Conte and Zidane are the only proven managers available. Conte is riskier, but has PL experience.
One reservation I'd have is that our squad isn't really suited to is preferred 3 at the back formation. Has he played a back 4 at any of the clubs he's managed before?
I think the aspect of the board is a less problematic one with United. He will get the funding he wants, the players he wants, and we're not a selling club.
At the moment, it feels like only a matter of time until Ole is sacked. He'd taken this squad to the peak of his abilities I feel, and Conte and Zidane are the only proven managers available. Conte is riskier, but has PL experience.
One reservation I'd have is that our squad isn't really suited to is preferred 3 at the back formation. Has he played a back 4 at any of the clubs he's managed before?
in a heart beat.
No. The last 10 years have shown that this club is about identity and not about short-term panic fixes. There not much more that you can do against two bank rolled clubs and one club that is enjoying a resurgence that won't last forever. The club is where it should be at this stage but they really should have won at least one cup last year. That is a MASSIVE mark against Ole and the staff. If they had won the Europa League, he would have got himself another 3 years guaranteed. The likelihood is Ole will get this year and next anyhow.
Absolutely agree with all of this. Conte plays horrendous football and would be an awful, awful appointment. Winning at all costs isn't everything - how could people possibly want a return to the grim performances and style provided by LVG and mourinho? We've missed opportunities over the past 2 years to get Nagelsmann and Pochettino - and I don't want us to now miss out on Ten Hag just because Conte is available. (And I am aware that Ten Hag may not actually be available - but still no to Conte).
For anyone saying Ten Hag -
How do you think he works with the squad we have now? We have a lot of great soloists - Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, and Greenwood and Rashford to an extent - unlike Ajax which is full of well-drilled players. Also no passing in midfield and no attacking quality from RB. The only players who might do better under him are Sancho and DvB.
If there's going to be a change in December/Jan, it should be with somebody who if flexible and can work with (more or less) what we have. I think either a RWB or a DM in Jan should be enough for Conte to make a grind-y but winning team. Not another few years to change systems, while we waste 1/2 good years that Ronaldo has left.
If it's an end of season thing, with many transfers allowed, then it's different.
How do you think he works with the squad we have now? We have a lot of great soloists - Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, and Greenwood and Rashford to an extent - unlike Ajax which is full of well-drilled players. Also no passing in midfield and no attacking quality from RB. The only players who might do better under him are Sancho and DvB.
If there's going to be a change in December/Jan, it should be with somebody who if flexible and can work with (more or less) what we have. I think either a RWB or a DM in Jan should be enough for Conte to make a grind-y but winning team. Not another few years to change systems, while we waste 1/2 good years that Ronaldo has left.
If it's an end of season thing, with many transfers allowed, then it's different.
Terrible idea. Mourinho without the honeymoon period charm. It’s three years since we came out of utter darkness, can’t understand anyone who’d wan’t a quick repeat of that and back to zero.
People who are parading names like Potter and Conte need to understand that we need the next Pep and Klopp. Also, these potential managers will easily be recognised, just like the prementioned managers were. It will be bleeding obvious when the next big thing pops up. Unless one is an Ole in, no matter what.
Signing Conte, who is another short term manager is not the solution. He’d rip up what ole has built and we’d be back at starting again once he leaves. This is why everyone argued that we need a DoF with a clear strategy laid out and adhered to, regardless if the manager leaves. We just need someone who can tweak and work with the squad that we have already. That is not Conte
Still no. Dont think we have a squad he'd make particularly good use of. Hes still a bit of a toxic goblin, dont need the drama or the shit football.
Mourinho wasn't as half negative back then as he has become when he joined us and then Spurs. Back then this Real Madrid side was great indeed.
We also watched Conte's teams play and no they aren't defensive. They are just organized and balanced. He doesn't play breathtaking football but he doesn't park the bus either. His teams know quite well what to do with the ball.
The thing about Conte, is like Mourinho, if you get the first goal, its all grand. But if you concede first, you are in trouble. Especially if you are playing a top team. You are fecked basically.
For me, i'm hoping he can drill them properly to play as a team. Just because they are great "soloists" doesn't mean they cannot learn to play better as a collective unit. If mediocre players can do it, the likes of Bruno/Ronaldo/Pogba, etc. can too. Think it's worth a shot and i'd rather burn that option before going to Conte.
Agreed.
What’s an outsider? We’re a massive business entity with commercial deals, scouting networks, and fan presence on almost every continent. We’re owned by Americans, listed on the NYSE, and our players are from all over the place.
We’re not a local cult. Let’s stop with this “knows the club” bollocks. Credentials and competency over familiarity, nepotism, and nostalgia
Darkness had more points per match, better goal difference per game, and two trophies. We’ve subbed a good manager with a toxic personality with a mediocre (at best) manager with a nice personality.
People feel good and fuzzy on the inside, but we’re going nowhere but backwards now.
I am not desperate to get Conte or anything but the Mourinho revisionism is starting to get annoying.
If we win the FA cup + at least 2.place or win the CL+top 4 then keep Ole. If not, my first choice would be Zidane. If he is not available then Conte.
Seriously, hell no - keep it away as far as possible. The baggage that comes with him is insanely bad and would be a burden in the long term.
We have one of the youngest squads out there, with two superstar strikers in Cavani & Ronaldo from the old guard. If we would be moving on from Ole, we need someone with vision enough to build from the squad and make his vision stick.
We have one of the youngest squads out there, with two superstar strikers in Cavani & Ronaldo from the old guard. If we would be moving on from Ole, we need someone with vision enough to build from the squad and make his vision stick.
I think he’s played a back 4 early on in his career when he was managing in Italy, at juventus he tried all sorts before settling with his favoured 3-5-2
If I felt like that I wouldn't see much point in even watching the games to be honest. I'd probably just check the results in May to see if we've won anything.
Let's say he is hired . What all think would he need to make our system work ? Think a right wing back is all we need to play his preferred 343 or 3412 based on opponents. We actually have players for both 343 and 3412 formations.
Who exactly is available to be signed as a RWB ? Trippier would be a good option I guess.
Who exactly is available to be signed as a RWB ? Trippier would be a good option I guess.
Yeah I think Ten Hag would have to be an end of season appointment, I do enjoy watching his team though.
Conte would probably be one of the better mid season options, just don’t like the long term future as he doesn’t seem to stay too long in a position.
I was here during the Mourinho era and had these sentiments at that time, hence no revisionism on my part.
The difference between Mourinho and Solskjær when it comes to playing styles, ethos and attitude approaching the game are huge, and Conte is closer to Mou. You might not care about that, but I think most who have an emotional attachment to United do.
Re points, Mourinho had us taking points while going backward. A year after getting 81 points, we were abysmal, had untrained players and needed a full overhaul. Soslkjær has us taking increasingly more points while developing, rejuvenating and strengthening our squad and improving the morale within the club, and that is without all the drawbacks of a Mou/Conte-like short-term, divisive manager.
Re trophies: The difference between Mou and Solskjær there is a penalty kick and the fact that Mou prioritized the League cup over qualifying for the Champions League. When it comes to going deep in cups, Solskjær have been better. Kudos to Mou for that Europa League trophy, but United didn’t play better in that run than in Solskjærs semi fi al and final run - they played worse.
I think for many, revisionism seems a more apt critique of anyone glorifying Mourinhos era here, or wanting Conte in to recreate it.
Right. And what was Sir Busby and Sir Alex link to the club before taking over? They're the same kind of 'outsiders' that you're so against.
I dont get this. Why this insistence that we absolutely must find someone long term?
We are currently building around a 36 year old player so our window is 3 years or so. Conte doesnt even need to stay more than 3 years but say he delivers 2 PL's and a CL, thats well worth it. We need to start winning major competitons cuz we are a bit of a joke of a club at the moment and not even taken seriously last who knows how many years yet now we have the most talented team in the world.
Strike when the iron is hot, its now. We dont need to be thinking about long term. We are in win now win asap mode.
I never insisted they had to be, then again we said this about Mourinho, I also wouldn’t be against Conte.
No, for the reason of
1. Conte is conservative in tactics, which is OK with me, but not to many fans. Just recall all those negative comment on Mourinho even when we were winning...
2. Conte is not so good in handling super ego players, as evidence in Chelsea
3. Conte has certain fixed idea on formation and tactics, which normally take times to adapt to. If he can't deliver within 6 months, what is next
4. In short, the only positive point about Conte is that he is media-shy, so unlikely to say anything stupid in front of camera (really?). So a media-shy Mourinho to me. Anyone want Mourinho back?
1. Conte is conservative in tactics, which is OK with me, but not to many fans. Just recall all those negative comment on Mourinho even when we were winning...
2. Conte is not so good in handling super ego players, as evidence in Chelsea
3. Conte has certain fixed idea on formation and tactics, which normally take times to adapt to. If he can't deliver within 6 months, what is next
4. In short, the only positive point about Conte is that he is media-shy, so unlikely to say anything stupid in front of camera (really?). So a media-shy Mourinho to me. Anyone want Mourinho back?
Chelsea literally won, what, a dozen consecutive league games immediately after implementing his formation in his first season there?
They had the title won before the rest of the league had any clue what to do about them.
SAF and the class of 92 colour a lot of people's perception on here. You see a lot of "sign this 20 year old fullback and we will be set for the next 12 years". It rarely ever works out that way (injuries, form falls off a cliff, player wants to leave, new manager doesn't like the player, and so on). Same thing with managers.
I agree that long term is ideal when possible, it is always a long shot in football. Most things will be short term.
Will go to Newcastle
The only thing too hurt us from the SAF era. The board and the fans are looking for managers for years which is not how it works. SAF was a exception to the norm even years ago when managers lasted longer, it’s not how it works.
The way should be sack if they don’t meet requirements and along the line you will get a Klopp/Pep manager that will do a great job and stick around for a few years. But we need to get out of the “he’s good but will only last 2 years”.
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